Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 14.05.2013, 10:02
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,176
Groaned at 2,043 Times in 1,527 Posts
Thanked 34,737 Times in 16,504 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
In the past yrs I have personally witnessed so many people buying because the interest are low and literally scraping the barrel (all saving, 2nd & 3rd pillar etc etc) to put the downpayment together. Same people then "splash out" each month on outings, lavish hols etc because mortgage is so "cheap" compared to previous rent... When in reality they have masisve debts, no more pension fund etc.

These are highly educated professionals...
That's the case with a friend of mine, who has to sell his house for at least 2.5M just to break even (as he will have to pay off the mortgage, repay his pension funds, personal loans from relatives, etc.)

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #182  
Old 14.05.2013, 10:19
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,642
Groaned at 409 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 17,262 Times in 9,280 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
Well in the 1960's UK when rents were controlled & you ended up with sitting tenants it was a very bad deal. Not sure about 'guaranteed to loose money' as the landlord is buying an asset that can be sold. Just negative cash flow in early years just like most business's.
About "the landlord is buying an asset that can be sold" - at a profit or a loss! & the profit has to be enough to cover the negative cash flow....
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 14.05.2013, 18:46
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,113
Groaned at 392 Times in 297 Posts
Thanked 18,942 Times in 10,202 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
About "the landlord is buying an asset that can be sold" - at a profit or a loss! & the profit has to be enough to cover the negative cash flow....
If I invest in shares, the dividend is often less than the cost of borrowing money, gold produces zero income but plenty of mugs will invest in it, TBH I don't understand your point.
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 14.05.2013, 22:19
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,425
Groaned at 113 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 1,527 Times in 876 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

While Tages Anzeiger published at least two or three articles about the report of SNB on the mortgage risks, neither NZZ nor Le Temps mentioned it.
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 14.05.2013, 22:25
user137's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 17 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 452 Times in 288 Posts
user137 has an excellent reputationuser137 has an excellent reputationuser137 has an excellent reputationuser137 has an excellent reputation
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
While Tages Anzeiger published at least two or three articles about the report of SNB on the mortgage risks, neither NZZ nor Le Temps mentioned it.
well the base rate can not sink any more - that means in the next 20 years it will definitely rise. Question is, when and how much? 5% I wouldn't think, but 1-2% is surely a reasonable option to expect.
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 14.05.2013, 22:35
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,113
Groaned at 392 Times in 297 Posts
Thanked 18,942 Times in 10,202 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
well the base rate can not sink any more - that means in the next 20 years it will definitely rise. Question is, when and how much? 5% I wouldn't think, but 1-2% is surely a reasonable option to expect.
I think there is every chance of 5% at some point in next 20 years, if one looks back 30 years then more than 5% is quite possible. Just because its low today does not mean it will be low forever.
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 15.05.2013, 00:28
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

The market is very very interesting at the moment. Talking to banking experts, they think the bubble will burst by end 2014 in those areas where prices have gone through the roof over the past decade - like the Geneva Lake shores, Zug, Zurich. Traditionally prices in Switzerland that changed very very slowly, so the recent increases in those areas are unprecedented.

By comparison, slower rises in areas surrounding the above are likely to be much more sustainable. In Romandie areas around Fribourg, Yverdon and Neuchatel Lake shores are seeing definite but more sensible increases, which are likely to endure. And very recently this has spread a bit beyond- even up some areas of the Jura, like Vallorbe, Ballaigues and all the villages at the foot of the Jura, and even to Val-de-Ruz above Neuchatel. Marked, but slow.

In fact La Chaux-de-Fonds has become very interesting for those wanting to invest in rental properties. Rents are low, but so are prices- and the return much better than in high price areas (7-8%).

In the area where I live, prices have not changed significantly for a very long time. So it will be interesting to see what will happen. Good news is, that although prices may not rise, they are not going to drop either. You can still buy a very nice villa with a bit of land for 500-700 around here, and some amazing older properties with huge character for about the same. Wait and see, che sera sera. Interesting times, that is for sure.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #188  
Old 15.05.2013, 00:41
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,113
Groaned at 392 Times in 297 Posts
Thanked 18,942 Times in 10,202 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
In the area where I live, prices have not changed significantly for a very long time. So it will be interesting to see what will happen. Good news is, that although prices may not rise, they are not going to drop either. You can still buy a very nice villa with a bit of land for 500-700 around here, and some amazing older properties with huge character for about the same. Wait and see, che sera sera. Interesting times, that is for sure.
That's still significantly higher than UK property, where the average sale price is approx. £165,000, however the average asking price is approx £225,000
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 15.05.2013, 00:47
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

I am talking about nice 4 bedroomed villas - not a mid-terrasse in, Luton or Bradford

Have you seen prices in Surrey recently?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #190  
Old 15.05.2013, 08:24
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,842
Groaned at 330 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 10,927 Times in 3,799 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
While Tages Anzeiger published at least two or three articles about the report of SNB on the mortgage risks, neither NZZ nor Le Temps mentioned it.
The Tages Anzeiger has a consistent left-wing agenda. You should have read their opinions of Switzerland's 'no' vote to the first step towards European Union membership.

I guess the politics of envy are at work on property prices...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #191  
Old 15.05.2013, 08:29
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,842
Groaned at 330 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 10,927 Times in 3,799 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
That's still significantly higher than UK property, where the average sale price is approx. £165,000, however the average asking price is approx £225,000
I don't see that you are comparing apples with apples. What have UK property prices to do with Swiss ones?
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 15.05.2013, 08:33
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,113
Groaned at 392 Times in 297 Posts
Thanked 18,942 Times in 10,202 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
Have you seen prices in Surrey recently?
Yes, but still peanuts when compared to new build apartments in Verbier at 24000chf a m2
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 15.05.2013, 08:37
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,113
Groaned at 392 Times in 297 Posts
Thanked 18,942 Times in 10,202 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
What have UK property prices to do with Swiss ones?
Supply & demand, like any other asset, of course you can borrow a higher multiple of earnings in CH, so prices are therefore higher
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 17.05.2013, 16:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,425
Groaned at 113 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 1,527 Times in 876 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

The properties in the price segment of 15'000 per square meter require "significantly more time" to sell - according to Tages Anzeiger.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/18642086
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 08.06.2017, 17:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Residential Property – an Era Comes to an End (Credit Suisse)

https://www.credit-suisse.com/ch/en/...udie-2017.html
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank CorsebouTheReturn for this useful post:
  #196  
Old 08.06.2017, 18:30
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,806
Groaned at 227 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 22,512 Times in 9,559 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
The Tages Anzeiger has a consistent left-wing agenda. You should have read their opinions of Switzerland's 'no' vote to the first step towards European Union membership.

I guess the politics of envy are at work on property prices...
I agree that Tages Anzeiger is clearly and unshamedly left wing.

But in contrast to the Guardian, they generally don't allow their discourse to drop to baseless scaremongering, but keep some civility even when in disagreement.
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 09.06.2017, 10:21
California Dreamer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,038
Groaned at 99 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 1,070 Times in 556 Posts
California Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputation
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

A friend has been trying to sell her house near Zermatt for 5 years now, below market value. Wallis just rezoned almost all bauland or "building land" back to agriculture so people holding these bauland zones are building on them before the law takes into effect thus flooding the market with new houses.

Another friend of mine owns his own (very successful) architect firm and he is transitioning from new building to renovating. He thinks the market is long overdue for a correction.

There are several new apartments on the lakeside that have never seen a tenant ever since they were built five or so years ago. It takes some time for a train to stop but this train is already at the station. Better to sell yesterday than today.
The good news is after the sh*t storm it will be a buyers market again with more reasonable prices.

The real question is the mortgage rates, if they go up that will screw a ton of people including a few I know who just bought a house/apartment in the last two years. They, like the sub prime Americans, were greedy and bought at the very upper limits of what they can actually afford. Why? Because the Swiss are too smart and something like sub prime would NEVER happen here.
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 09.06.2017, 10:30
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,113
Groaned at 392 Times in 297 Posts
Thanked 18,942 Times in 10,202 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
A friend has been trying to sell her house near Zermatt for 5 years now, below market value.
Below perceived market but above the actual market value as it has not sold. Price discovery can be a rude awakening, selling the house by auction without a reserve will show the actual market value.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #199  
Old 09.06.2017, 10:40
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 905
Groaned at 144 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 2,232 Times in 850 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

There's no drama, calm down. Location, location, location. A property on the lake in Zurich is one thing, in Baselland a second and Zermatt second luxury home - third. First one is and will be in strong demand in the foreseeable future, second one is likely to remain attractive, while there will probably be less capital gain and the third one, well, it was speculative from the outset. If someone else than a Russian oligarch bought in Zermatt as an investment, he/she should have known its a risky asset class that is also expensive.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #200  
Old 09.06.2017, 10:52
California Dreamer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,038
Groaned at 99 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 1,070 Times in 556 Posts
California Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputation
Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Quote:
View Post
There's no drama, calm down. Location, location, location. A property on the lake in Zurich is one thing, in Baselland a second and Zermatt second luxury home - third. First one is and will be in strong demand in the foreseeable future, second one is likely to remain attractive, while there will probably be less capital gain and the third one, well, it was speculative from the outset. If someone else than a Russian oligarch bought in Zermatt as an investment, he/she should have known its a risky asset class that is also expensive.
Did you not read my statement about new lakeside as in Zurich lake apartments sitting empty for the last several years? That's pretty darn good location. Second I said near Zermatt, Stalden to be exact and it's a family house, not a luxery villa and she's trying to sell it less than what she paid ten years ago. No one can predict the future but a lot of experts have been waving the warning flags for some time now. Keep on sailing at your own risk.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brainstorming, economics, housing




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
is the property market creating a bubble? antongiu Housing in general 8 20.02.2012 11:11
Is *Made in China* products influencing too much in Swiss market???? cupider Other/general 0 25.11.2011 19:33
What is going on today in the stock market? [Big falls in value] ukal123 Business & entrepreneur 25 07.04.2011 15:32
Is it possible to fall in love on a Swiss Air flight?? davejones97 Daily life 81 02.06.2009 23:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0