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  #101  
Old 30.04.2013, 22:20
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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I'm glad there is at least some aspect of life in Switzerland they allow free market forces to determine. Should they fall, that spells opportunity for others. In my opinion, real estate value is not the biggest risk facing Switzerland.
Wasn't the biggest problem of the US either... Until about 2007.
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  #102  
Old 30.04.2013, 22:22
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Phil MCR for one, Brits & Americans are into home buying......
People even buy 'B' permits to buy properties foreigners can't buy, over 300m etc!
If u got 300m you can buy yourself a passport already, u don't need a B
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  #103  
Old 30.04.2013, 22:26
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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If u got 300m you can buy yourself a passport already, u don't need a B
You would need to live here for 12 years first & then be stuck with Swiss inheritance laws, which is something the mega rich probably don't want.
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  #104  
Old 30.04.2013, 22:28
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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You would need to live here for 12 years first & then be stuck with Swiss inheritance laws, which is something the mega rich probably don't want.
Edit: sorry, lump sum taxation only gets you a permit, not a passport, my bad
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  #105  
Old 30.04.2013, 22:38
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Wasn't the biggest problem of the US either... Until about 2007.
Actually it was the difference in the US was the massve loans to people with no down payment or adequate incime to repay. The requirement here for 20% deposit makes the market somewhat different to the brokers who were reaping huge commissions jut to sign up borrowers regardless of repayment capacity.
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  #106  
Old 30.04.2013, 22:46
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Well, I'm a furriner who bought at the first opportunity. My decision was driven not by finances, but by the fact that I hated being a tenant, I could not stand the idea of a landlord breathing down my neck, telling me what I could or could not do.


(And now, as a homeowner I have the neighbors breathing down my neck, telling me what I can or cannot do. )
Sure I am just wondering if this is the norm or the exception. As I said most people I work with are foreigners living in CH for a few years (and intend on staying) all earning well above the EF 120K threshold and yet they all rent... My understanding is also many expats come with a 3-5 yr contract so end up renting since they won't stay long term.

Really curious as to how many foreigners own propoerty and are there enough that would cause a price increase as was indicated
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  #107  
Old 30.04.2013, 22:53
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Really curious as to how many foreigners own propoerty and are there enough that would cause a price increase as was indicated
Most of my fellow Hungarians here who can afford to buy something, did already buy. 150-200k is a hefty sum to shell out for down payment, so it takes a while to actually accumulate I guess. Ask your expat friends who are here for 10+ years.
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  #108  
Old 30.04.2013, 22:57
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Sure I am just wondering if this is the norm or the exception. As I said most people I work with are foreigners living in CH for a few years (and intend on staying) all earning well above the EF 120K threshold and yet they all rent... My understanding is also many expats come with a 3-5 yr contract so end up renting since they won't stay long term.

Really curious as to how many foreigners own propoerty and are there enough that would cause a price increase as was indicated

IIRC, we "foreigners" "just" drive the Swiss out of the renting-market into the buying-market.
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  #109  
Old 01.05.2013, 00:49
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Sure I am just wondering if this is the norm or the exception. As I said most people I work with are foreigners living in CH for a few years (and intend on staying) all earning well above the EF 120K threshold and yet they all rent... My understanding is also many expats come with a 3-5 yr contract so end up renting since they won't stay long term.

Really curious as to how many foreigners own propoerty and are there enough that would cause a price increase as was indicated
I don't think that foreigners alone are pushing up house prices. Returning Swiss that have lived many years abroad or Swiss with a young family were looking at the same same houses as I was the past 5 or so years I've been looking to buy a bigger family home here.

Foreigners are certainly more likely to own or have owned property somewhere else in the world that has experienced prices increases, with the selling or re-mortgaging of foreign property providing them with a deposit or cash for their Swiss purchase.
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Old 01.05.2013, 01:15
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Really curious as to how many foreigners own propoerty and are there enough that would cause a price increase as was indicated
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I don't think that foreigners alone are pushing up house prices. Returning Swiss that have lived many years abroad or Swiss with a young family were looking at the same same houses as I was the past 5 or so years I've been looking to buy a bigger family home here.
I'm also not convinced it is the B permit holders who are pushing prices up. Perhaps that might hold true in specific enclaves, where an expat will buy anything they can find at whatever price out of desperation. But I believe it is due to general economic prosperity in Switzerland, particularly for all other areas in Switzerland. But does anyone have real data to prop that assertion up?
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  #111  
Old 01.05.2013, 02:57
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Ah, but there are very few free standing houses within an hour of Zürich city, for under 2 mio, in a Gemeinde where the tax rate makes sense, with enough land to plant a garden, sufficiently isolated from complaining neighbors. And, those meeting the critieria rarely make it to the open market.
Source?

If you mean direction SZ /ZG this may be true - but 45 mins out of ZH in almost any other direction takes you a very long distance to affordable housing in some of the lowest tax Gemeindes in the Kanton.
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  #112  
Old 01.05.2013, 03:29
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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What happened then, did anyone got bankrupt? Did housing prices fall?
Google "housing bubble Switzerland".

I recall Swiss telling me there was a bubble in the 80's caused by banks lending 120% of valuation - assuming prices would continue to increase. We know many Hans Uelis who bought at this time and still own because the house price has not recovered.

I saw "Real Estate Monitor Switzerland" from credit Agricole which suggests no real increase in pricing since 1990. This confirms what my (old) Hans Uelis are telling.

I'd put the link but you'll benefit more by choosing your own from the list which comes from googling "housing bubble Switzerland"

Oh and apparently 600+ banks went bankrupt - or rather the SNB required the three larger banks to buy them out, and there was 80 + billion written off by the banks ...

The situation is of course different today - banks no longer lend excessively - the same report suggests houses are not overpriced. It's a good read ...
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  #113  
Old 01.05.2013, 03:30
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Source?

If you mean direction SZ /ZG this may be true - but 45 mins out of ZH in almost any other direction takes you a very long distance to affordable housing in some of the lowest tax Gemeindes in the Kanton.
Source? My own scouring of the market daily for the last four years.

Trust me, I've looked and looked and looked. There are currently no properties meeting our particular needs at a price and tax rate we can afford, that we would be allowed to buy.
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  #114  
Old 01.05.2013, 03:34
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Trust Homegate, search up to Sfr 2m houses to buy - plenty. Your needs are not nec the same as Hans Ueli's.
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  #115  
Old 01.05.2013, 08:46
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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I'm also not convinced it is the B permit holders who are pushing prices up. Perhaps that might hold true in specific enclaves, where an expat will buy anything they can find at whatever price out of desperation. But I believe it is due to general economic prosperity in Switzerland, particularly for all other areas in Switzerland. But does anyone have real data to prop that assertion up?
I agree that it is not the foreigners or the B permit holders but rather the overall affordability. When you take the purcahse price and buy away from the main cities switzerland has quite affordable housing and then take into consideration the almost giving it away interest rates that can be locked in for years then yes swiss real estate is mega affordable and good value. A home of half the cost in sydney which is actually not to be found since housing there is on par to zurich and geneva will cost you twice as much on a mortgage repayments at least. Look outside zurich near places like winterthur and there are loads available under 1M
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  #116  
Old 01.05.2013, 09:11
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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I would very much like hear others thoughts on this subject. We currently have a house on the market for sale which we bought 5 years ago. We have just had an offer for less than we paid for it as the banks have valued it 150k less than the price it is advertised! Can anyone clarify what "valuation of the property" by the Swiss Bank means. Does it mean the amount they are willing to lend on the property with the requirement of a 20% deposit or does it actually mean the price they would sell the house for? The Banks valuation and the Realtor's valuation are miles apart could someone please clarify. Thanks
bank value <> market value

think of it as auction value rather than what someone might actually pay for it. Ironically if you sell at market value, it could push the bank value up eventually if enough properties shift at the inflated price (similar property, same area). But a bank will want to shift a repossessed property very quickly hence the lower valuation.

you are now trapped in the must-sell quadrant? Or can you wait like many tend to do?
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  #117  
Old 01.05.2013, 09:33
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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I'm also not convinced it is the B permit holders who are pushing prices up. Perhaps that might hold true in specific enclaves, where an expat will buy anything they can find at whatever price out of desperation. But I believe it is due to general economic prosperity in Switzerland, particularly for all other areas in Switzerland. But does anyone have real data to prop that assertion up?
Bear in mind, that all B permits were subject to quota at the time I am talking about. All jobs had to be advertised for 3 months to show there was nobody already in CH to do the job.

If you think opening the flood gates to EU citizens has not put pressure on both rental & purchased property I think your mistaken,
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  #118  
Old 01.05.2013, 10:05
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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Bear in mind, that all B permits were subject to quota at the time I am talking about. All jobs had to be advertised for 3 months to show there was nobody already in CH to do the job.

If you think opening the flood gates to EU citizens has not put pressure on both rental & purchased property I think your mistaken,
population growth of course figures into the equation, but this isn't the same as b-permit holders buying up property. imo, house prices are high due to:

- ultra-low interest rates
- population growth (leading to higher demand and shortage of housing)
- recovery from previous crash
- lack of alternative investments
- safe haven flight
- speculation

property is usually cyclical and the construction industry is building into the demand. as supply meets then exceeds demand, i think we'll see house prices declining.
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  #119  
Old 01.05.2013, 10:22
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

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If you think opening the flood gates to EU citizens has not put pressure on both rental & purchased property I think your mistaken,
Btw they are just about to close those gates. Eastern Europe is already very limited, but Germany is getting under control as well.
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  #120  
Old 01.05.2013, 10:28
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Re: is the Swiss property market going to fall, too?

Yes the 80/20 rule is ruling me out! So so difficult! Ach well, we will get there in the end.
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