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Old 04.07.2013, 15:21
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Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

I am in what a believe a ridiculous situation!
We occasionally leave the buggy out of necessity in the entrance between the letter box and the stairs that go down to the basement - there is enough space to go through but one lady claims the opposite.
She blames it to her weight and difficulty in walking but she is probably going down to the basement not more than twice a month, so the chance are not very high that the buggy will be there exactly those times!
Anyway she's been making lots of fuss about the buggy for a month or two - shouting to us every time we got back home! I mostly ignored her but once I reacted and shouted back at her to leave me alone.
She came out and attempted to throw the buggy down the stairs!
After that episode I contacted the landlord that they were to inform her that she had not right to attack us verbally and/or displace our buggy and warn her that next time I would call the police. The landlord didn't comment on the buggy or anything else.
I thought that was it but some weeks later she claimed that she fell down the stairs!!
I don't believe so (and I am not the only one) because if she had really fallen she would have seriously injured herself considering her weight!
Following that the landlord wrote a letter to us and her that the buggy had to be always parked in the basement - no surprise but I've still answered that this arrangement was not practical or realistic!
So we still leave the buggy sometimes in the entrance but regularly someone brings it downstairs! I am getting really pissed off about it because it is really a question of some hours or even less! for example my partner goes to work at 8am and I ask him to bring it up - I go down at 9am and it is not there!! I am thinking to use a lock so they cannot remove it but i am sure it will provoke a big fuss - so I am asking: can the landlord actually kick us out because we need to leave sometimes the buggy by the entrance?!
I should also say that we received support from other neighbors that also believe that this lady is petty, malicious and a liar.
We're thinking to look for a new flat anyway because this situation is ridiculous but here in Bern it really takes time to find something good..
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Old 04.07.2013, 15:28
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

May i ask what is the problem with leaving your buggy downstairs? I have 3 strollers and all goes to basement even when i have 3 kids with me (8,1,7mos) and groceries. Its not much easier for me even if i decide not to follow this rule.
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Old 04.07.2013, 15:29
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

You might not want to hear this, but, if yours (or anyone else's) stuff isn't allowed to be in the entry way and others are bothered by it, I don't think you have much choice but to either bring it to your apartment or to the basement. Sorry...
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Old 04.07.2013, 15:32
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

If it's anything like our place, nothing can be left out either near stairs or near the entrance, regardless of whether anyone could squeeze through because of fire regs. If it narrows an exit, it has to be shifted.

If the landlord bends the rules for you, the next thing you know every mum has got their buggy parked down there and there is a couple of bikes, scooters there for good measure because "if the mums can leave their buggies there why can't I leave my bike, etc., etc?"
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Old 04.07.2013, 15:32
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

I think you are refering to leaving something in the hall of the basement?
I think due to security issues you are not supposed to leave anything in the halls because they are blocking a escape route. You might argue that the buggy really isn't in anyone's way but I would really recommend you to think that you might be incomodating other people and that it might also be a safety issue.
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Old 04.07.2013, 15:35
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

Which floor do you live on and is there a lift?
Can you put the buggy in your own apartment?

Can you get a more light-weight buggy that is easier to carry up the stairs?
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Old 04.07.2013, 15:45
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

Yes they can kick you out: if you repeat the offence one time after a written warning.

You cannot leave the buggy in the stair well as it will block the fire escape route. You might be able to place it under the stairs, with the landlord's permission.

Alternatives: leave it in your car, outside in the garden for a short period (From 8 to 9 am), in your cellar, in the bicycle room, inside your apartment.
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Old 04.07.2013, 15:47
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

Are you complying to the house rules?
If not they can kick you out.
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Old 04.07.2013, 15:53
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

I had an idiot neighbor that would leave there buggy ON the stairs, which was quite dangerous especially if the light went out.

I would invariable carry it down to the next half floor where there was space.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 04.07.2013 at 16:11.
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Old 04.07.2013, 15:59
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

Unless others are using the hallway for personal items, then you may be hard pushed to get any leeway here.

To you, it sounds as if you feel the neighbour is complaining for the sake of it, but it is more likely the buggy is an excuse to make a complaint about you for another reason, be it noise, the kids, or she just a miserable cow.

I have had similar letters from the property manager about my use of communal spaces from a moany neighbour complaining but I never bothered doing anything. I wrote back, noting all the contradictions and hypocrisy in the accusations being put to me and thus, I am not changing or altering my ways. I am still there and eventually complaints stopped.

We just live on ignoring and hating each other. It's quite fun.

Could you not just leave the buggy just inside your front door or find another location thats not hindering any access/exit points?
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Old 04.07.2013, 16:06
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

Your lease normally stipulates where the bike store is, where buggies are to be kept etc. and certainly if it does stipulate these things, you have no leg to stand on - no matter how bonkers the rule may seem to you.

I'd try to find out who has been kindly taking your buggy downstairs for you (it could be that they view it as helping you out) and go and thank them and maybe apologise? It's never nice to be at odds with your neighbours, especially if you are in the wrong.
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Old 04.07.2013, 16:13
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

From your description, it's small and couldn't possibly get in anybody's way.

Just store it in your kitchen.
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Old 04.07.2013, 16:15
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

I fully understand how frustrating this is, having young kids ourselves, and having lived in an apartment with Swiss neighbours. I think this is the perfect reason to start looking to buy a house or an apartment where you can leave your buggy any time you want wherever you want. We did.

Because, I think it is obvious that the rules for living together with other people are not compatible with your current household, which is quite understandable with working parents. Living in Bern, it is quite surprising that the landlord is bending the rules for you, and it is even more surprising that some of your housemates actually take the effort and put your buggy where it should be. You should be thankful that someone is doing this where you are expected to do it yourself....

Therefore, start looking for a new place, before you get kicked out and are forced to look for a new place. Other than hiring a hit-squad, I don't think you can do anything about the nasty old lady.
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Old 04.07.2013, 16:16
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

I hate stuff being left in the hallway!! Yeah in my place it's just shoes, of course I can get past them, but sometimes everybody has 20 pairs of shoes outside thier door and and sometimes I have to drive over them with the pram.

Move your stuff to your own space!
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Old 04.07.2013, 16:32
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

If you leave something unattended in a public/communal area, you simply cannot complain that it is displaced somewhere else - in fact in some places you might be considered lucky it hasn't been stolen.

If people are complaining, there is a reason for it. It is in their way. If a rule exists that this space should be cleared, then this also applies to you. There is certainly nothing illegal about being overweight, so throw that consideration straight out the window.
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Old 04.07.2013, 16:34
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

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We occasionally leave the buggy out of laziness in the entrance between the letter box and the stairs that go down to the basement - there is enough space to go through but one lady claims the opposite.
Fixed that for you.

No matter what said lady thinks...

a) you're most likely violating fire regulations
b) what makes you believe that you have the right to use common space in the stairwell to store your stuff?
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Old 04.07.2013, 16:48
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

I get your frustration and honestly, I think anyone who has kids and no elevator/place to store their pram will understand your difficulty. We had a similar challenge. If a person can pass through, then it's not blocking their movement and it's not a fire hazard.

It's perhaps a little too late for me to give you constructive criticism, but I think that asking your neighbors in advance might have made a difference. No way to know for sure with the one who is obviously very irritated by it. But we put up a note just after our baby was born announcing his birth and asking that if anyone had a problem with us leaving our pram there, to please let us know.

Swiss people can be VERY anal about house rules. I've been there. But it doesn't mean you can't still get around certain things. Just ask.

To also add, it's unfair for anyone to assume it's laziness or something similar for someone not to put away their buggy. We all know it's not easy to find accommodations in Switzerland. Sometimes, you end up taking a place that doesn't have an elevator. Trying to carry a baby and a pram upstairs isn't the safest thing. My husband can pull it off quite easily but I can't. Again though, it's courtesy to ask people and I really believe that even anal people will be accommodating when given the respectful request to be so.

Last edited by little_isabella; 04.07.2013 at 17:18.
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Old 04.07.2013, 17:20
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

You could try reasoning with them by agreeing to place the buggy out of eyesight when you are in for the day / out for the day, and is not about to be used in the very near future.

Maybe have a note, or item, that indicates (per prior discussion with neighbours) that hubby has brought it up pre work or you have just popped in and are going out again very soon, something that essentially indicates it has not been put away properly due to it's necessity in a short while. Surely most people are reasonable enough to be understanding and I doubt the property managers will do anything about this.

Of course, if you then leave it all day you will piss that person off again and force her into more depression and binging.

My personal feelings on communal spaces is I don't really care what people use it for, as long as they practice what they preach. I don't live in the hallway, I merely use it to get in and out, so I couldn't care less what people do or leave there. I only care when they suddenly deem there stuff more important than mine and complain or that I must clean it when they desire due to their mental disorders.
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Old 04.07.2013, 17:58
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

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Maybe have a note, or item, that indicates (per prior discussion with neighbours) that hubby has brought it up pre work or you have just popped in and are going out again very soon, something that essentially indicates it has not been put away properly due to it's necessity in a short while. Surely most people are reasonable enough to be understanding and I doubt the property managers will do anything about this.
This is a good point. Although there are possible issues with fire regs, you are still within reason to leave something out in the stairwell or entrance hall if you are loading or offloading.

The OP could calmly point this out to the woman that seems to make the most fuss about it. Even the most shouty person winds their neck back in if someone is calmly pointing out a reasonable argument followed up with a "I can assure you it's only very temporary" and finished off with "Would that be OK with you?"

Maybe even employ the trusty Swiss note system that they seem to love here - leave an A4 sized note propped up on the buggy saying "Please leave in situ, will be gone by 9am" or similar.
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Old 04.07.2013, 18:09
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Re: Can they kick us out because we refuse to bring always the buggy in the basement?

Or if worse comes to worse, leave a burger in the buggy and all her worries will be gone. She will love the buggy, become dependent on the buggy and cherish it's existence.

Then move it.
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