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Old 11.06.2020, 21:03
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

if you are legally married, your spouse cannot sell a property in switzerland without your consent even if its in their name exclusively. that might put your mind at ease on that concern.
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  #22  
Old 11.06.2020, 22:52
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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if you are legally married, your spouse cannot sell a property in switzerland without your consent even if its in their name exclusively. that might put your mind at ease on that concern.
Even an investment property?
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  #23  
Old 12.06.2020, 00:30
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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Same reason that she's entitled to half of any other assets acquired during the marriage.

Tom
I know but I find it strange to be honest. I do not get the basis for this. If you have an AuPair or Live-in nanny, you pay them less wage because you provide them with housing and food. If one maintains a spouse who does not work, shouldn't that result in a deduction of what they can take after divorce vs a spouse who actually contributed to the wealth of the family? But the law seems to work in the exact opposite way.
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Old 12.06.2020, 06:43
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

The law is like that to protect anyone who gives up their career to do the hard work of raising the children and maintaining the household. Without such laws, there cannot be gender equality. It's for the well being of society as a whole.
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Old 12.06.2020, 06:45
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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I know but I find it strange to be honest. I do not get the basis for this. If you have an AuPair or Live-in nanny, you pay them less wage because you provide them with housing and food. If one maintains a spouse who does not work, shouldn't that result in a deduction of what they can take after divorce vs a spouse who actually contributed to the wealth of the family? But the law seems to work in the exact opposite way.
That analogy makes no sense. What exactly is the mathematical connection? They are both getting the benefit of a home and they both deserve a salary. Unless you want to create a complicated equation on earning potentials (which can go both ways and does not include the hit to the career of a stay at home parent), the easiest and fairest way is to divide it by half.
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Old 12.06.2020, 08:45
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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I know but I find it strange to be honest. I do not get the basis for this. If you have an AuPair or Live-in nanny, you pay them less wage because you provide them with housing and food. If one maintains a spouse who does not work, shouldn't that result in a deduction of what they can take after divorce vs a spouse who actually contributed to the wealth of the family? But the law seems to work in the exact opposite way.
That can be avoided by having a separation of benefits marriage regime.

Default is 50/50.

Tom
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  #27  
Old 12.06.2020, 11:58
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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The law is like that to protect anyone who gives up their career to do the hard work of raising the children and maintaining the household. Without such laws, there cannot be gender equality. It's for the well being of society as a whole.
I beg to differ. To me this is exactly what causes gender inequality. The fact that we are ok with our daughters studying majors that do not have income potential. Think it is their job to raise the kids rather than the couple.

Anyways, I have noticed the younger generation is different. They seem to have a much more gender neutral view of roles of the couple in a marriage. To me it is healthier.
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Old 12.06.2020, 13:33
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

Forgive me, but I can't manage to use the quoting mechanism on my browser in Englishforum.

To Miu: I am the younger generation in an extremely equitable relationship. We both work 100% outside the home, and at home we share the childcare and household chores equally. It's very stressful, and if one of us was able to reduce our working hours significantly, our collective family stress would also be reduced.

But that same person would then have much more to lose if the relationship were to dissolve if it weren't for laws like the one you mention. In this sense, they protect us from consequences of decisions we make as a family in order to further our well-being.

But good news: If someone doesn't want to share their assets, they never need to get married! That's the easiest solution. Call me unromantic, but I personally don't see the point of marriage if their are no children. Co-habitation is good enough.
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Old 12.06.2020, 13:43
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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...Call me unromantic, but I personally don't see the point of marriage if their are no children. Co-habitation is good enough.
Unless one in the couple is non-Swiss, non-EU. Then the permit issues are a bit more complicated.
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Old 12.06.2020, 14:00
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

Thanks 3-Wishes: I suppose that's another reason to get married. I was fortunate enough that I didn't need tie the knot in order to live in the same country as my partner.
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Old 12.06.2020, 14:04
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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Forgive me, but I can't manage to use the quoting mechanism on my browser in Englishforum.

To Miu: I am the younger generation in an extremely equitable relationship. We both work 100% outside the home, and at home we share the childcare and household chores equally. It's very stressful, and if one of us was able to reduce our working hours significantly, our collective family stress would also be reduced.

But that same person would then have much more to lose if the relationship were to dissolve if it weren't for laws like the one you mention. In this sense, they protect us from consequences of decisions we make as a family in order to further our well-being.

But good news: If someone doesn't want to share their assets, they never need to get married! That's the easiest solution. Call me unromantic, but I personally don't see the point of marriage if their are no children. Co-habitation is good enough.
Just to clarify, I do not mean to say one does not merit compensation after potentially sacrificing a career. Of course they do. But I do not believe in umbrella 50% formula either. I think there should be a more precise formulation. Most couples have 2 kids or so. While it is very hard work to take care of young children, the workload of the stay at home parent significantly decreases once the kids go to school. Fundamentally the working partner is paying all the living expenses of the stay at home partner. Yes the stay at home partner does more house chores and raises the kids, but I find it absurd that this means upon divorce, the stay at home partner is entitled to 50% of the assets no matter what the income level of the other partner and their own earning potential was.
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Old 12.06.2020, 14:12
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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Unless one in the couple is non-Swiss, non-EU. Then the permit issues are a bit more complicated.
So in this case, one even furnishes the partner with the right to live in another country and then would be liable for future too?

BTW, I am not just preaching, I believe in equality and this is what I practiced when I got divorced. I did not take a dime from assets that I had not contributed towards their purchase. My ex had a brand new expensive car. I did not want to get half of that when he used his income to buy it while I had squandered a significant part of mine on shoes which he could not get

I grew up in a traditional country where most woman marry and never work, I am immensely grateful to my father that encouraged my sister and I to study well and be independent with good careers. As a woman in STEM, I feel very strongly about value of hard work and true equality. I also find it very sad that so many people stay in unhappy relationships because of financial ramifications.
This is just bad for everyone, men or women IMHO.
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  #33  
Old 12.06.2020, 15:09
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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I find it absurd that this means upon divorce, the stay at home partner is entitled to 50% of the assets no matter what the income level of the other partner and their own earning potential was.
Simple: declare a separation of assets marriage regime, and no 50/50.

Tom
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Old 12.06.2020, 15:37
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

If you're married to a Swiss, there is no reason you cannot have a Swiss bank account in your name and no reason you can't be on the mortgage / joint owner of the property. Yes you must declare it and the bank will probably want to see a copy of your filings.

If you don't go down this route, then you can be put on the deed as having either "usofructo" or "right of habitation". There are very important differences between the two but it's really best if you speak to a lawyer who can explain the difference and the legal rights and obligations with both.
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  #35  
Old 12.06.2020, 19:59
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Re: Swiss American couple buying property

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Just to clarify, I do not mean to say one does not merit compensation after potentially sacrificing a career. Of course they do. But I do not believe in umbrella 50% formula either. I think there should be a more precise formulation. Most couples have 2 kids or so. While it is very hard work to take care of young children, the workload of the stay at home parent significantly decreases once the kids go to school. Fundamentally the working partner is paying all the living expenses of the stay at home partner. Yes the stay at home partner does more house chores and raises the kids, but I find it absurd that this means upon divorce, the stay at home partner is entitled to 50% of the assets no matter what the income level of the other partner and their own earning potential was.
While the assets are split 50%, the alimony might not be. If the stay-at-home spouse can work at least some percentage to support him/herself after divorce then the courts expect that and not just a free ride. From here on out to save typing, I'm going to use "mom" since women are still traditionally the ones to stay home. No offense to dads intended.

If mom has stayed home with the kids for several years, her skills can get out of date and that gap on the CV becomes a bigger deal. It's not as simple as "go out and get a job you lazy lump!"

You say that mom's workload significantly decreases once the children are in school. This isn't 100% true. The house still needs to be clean. The children still need to be bathed, fed and helped with homework. Someone still has to buy the food, clothes, and household supplies. Laundry and dishes still need done. Guess who keeps doing all those things while the kids are at school, when previously the kids were at home? Often it's mom.

Once children are old enough for activities, mom then is usually the one to juggle violin lessons, football practice, gymnastics, etc. At least in Switzerland it's hard to go to back to work 100% because the kids aren't in school 100%. Bullying at school? Bake sale? Fundraising for the ice hockey club? Usually mom.

Your posts imply that because mom doesn't have outside income, she doesn't contribute financially. That's not fair. She does a ton of work, all without traditional pay, and is on the job pretty much 24 hours. Sick child? Mom usually deals with it at 2 a.m. because dad has to get up and go to work. Nightmares? Same. Doctor's appointment? Dentist? That too. Furnace broke? Mom calls the repairman and waits. Dishwasher broke and made a mess? Mom cleans it all up. As much as couples might try to be equitable, if one parent stays home the default is they deal with a lot of crap.

This article is a bit exaggerated, but not by that much:
https://www.investopedia.com/financi...ker-worth.aspx
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