Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27.11.2013, 01:04
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
FlavioYB has no particular reputation at present
Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

I will hopefully start to work in March at the University of Geneva with a temporary contract (three years and possible extension). I am EU national so in principle I should easily get a B permit (or L due to the quota thing). The problem is that to get the permit they demand and address (a full rent contract not just the address of a friend) in Geneve that I do not have. My plan is to find a place once I am there. Since I live in France I could get a frontalier G permit, then try to find and apartment in Geneva , and finally convert my permit to B.

However I do not know if this is legal or possible? Or maybe renting the apartment will be too difficult?

Alternatives like finding a temporary apartment in Geneva are crazy expensive for my salary, I cannot afford to pay 4000CHF monthly.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28.11.2013, 10:11
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,456
Groaned at 419 Times in 322 Posts
Thanked 17,501 Times in 9,814 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Quote:
View Post
I will hopefully start to work in March at the University of Geneva with a temporary contract (three years and possible extension). I am EU national so in principle I should easily get a B permit (or L due to the quota thing). The problem is that to get the permit they demand and address (a full rent contract not just the address of a friend) in Geneve that I do not have. My plan is to find a place once I am there. Since I live in France I could get a frontalier G permit, then try to find and apartment in Geneva , and finally convert my permit to B.

However I do not know if this is legal or possible? Or maybe renting the apartment will be too difficult?

Alternatives like finding a temporary apartment in Geneva are crazy expensive for my salary, I cannot afford to pay 4000CHF monthly.
I'm not really sure what your question is. As far as I know an hotel address is fine for getting your permit, unless Geneva does things differently. So stay in an hotel for a few weeks while sorting out your permit and a place to stay. When you have a permanent place you simply notify the commune about the change and you'll get a new permit with changed address and an invoice.

Yes, I would think you can get a G permit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 28.11.2013, 10:54
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
FlavioYB has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Quote:
View Post
unless Geneva does things differently. So stay in an hotel for a few weeks while sorting out your permit and a place to stay. When you have a permanent place you simply notify the commune about the change and you'll get a new permit with changed address and an invoice.

Yes, I would think you can get a G permit.
The fact is that Geneva does things differently. Aparently there is a new law (passed some months ago) that requires me to have secured housing for as long as my contract is. I already offered the university to stay in hotel while they sort out my contract, and this is not valid. I have a friend who offered to sign a letter saying that I am going to stay with her while I find an appartment, this is also not good for the university.

Here is my question just in case it was not clear.

I know I can get a G permit. However, will somebody rent me an apartment with this permit? Can I change my permit from G to B once I have rented the apartment?.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28.11.2013, 11:40
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,308
Groaned at 89 Times in 85 Posts
Thanked 19,503 Times in 8,624 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Ugh, you're caught with the whole chicken-egg thing. Need a permit to rent a flat, need an address with a rental contract to get the permit. What I don't get is why the university cares if you're staying with a friend. I don't think the municipality cares as long as it's a valid address, and they are the ones that issue the permit, right?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 28.11.2013, 11:53
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,456
Groaned at 419 Times in 322 Posts
Thanked 17,501 Times in 9,814 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

I can't see any problem with changing from a G to a B/L. I think the difficulty may be in finding someone to rent to you with a G. The rules state that you must return to your "main place of residence abroad" at least once a week:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...g_eu_efta.html

So how that squares with renting a place in Geneva from Monday to Friday say I don't know. I'm sure it is done, but I just don't know how open landlords/agencies are to renting to you with a G before you've changed your permit.

I can only suggest drawing up a sub-let rental contract with your friend which you both sign (and presumably their landlord/agency too if they're renting). That would keep both university and commune happy. Then you'd get your B/L and be able to look for a place of your own.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28.11.2013, 11:58
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Quote:
View Post
I can't see any problem with changing from a G to a B/L. I think the difficulty may be in finding someone to rent to you with a G. The rules state that you must return to your "main place of residence abroad" at least once a week:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...g_eu_efta.html

So how that squares with renting a place in Geneva from Monday to Friday say I don't know. I'm sure it is done, but I just don't know how open landlords/agencies are to renting to you with a G before you've changed your permit.

I can only suggest drawing up a sub-let rental contract with your friend which you both sign (and presumably their landlord/agency too if they're renting). That would keep both university and commune happy. Then you'd get your B/L and be able to look for a place of your own.
You can rent a normal apartment with a G permit, I have some friends from Spain who have a G permit in Geneva, it's just not a main residence. They have no intention of getting a B as they don't have a full time job.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 28.11.2013, 12:09
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
FlavioYB has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Quote:
View Post
Ugh, you're caught with the whole chicken-egg thing. Need a permit to rent a flat, need an address with a rental contract to get the permit. What I don't get is why the university cares if you're staying with a friend. I don't think the municipality cares as long as it's a valid address, and they are the ones that issue the permit, right?
I send and emai to the municipality (Oficine Cantonale de la Population). They replied that if my friend sign a letter saying that I stay with her this is ok. When I forwarded this email to the university with a letter of my friend saying that I will stay with her, they say they still want the paper
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 28.11.2013, 12:14
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
FlavioYB has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Quote:
View Post
I can only suggest drawing up a sub-let rental contract with your friend which you both sign (and presumably their landlord/agency too if they're renting). That would keep both university and commune happy. Then you'd get your B/L and be able to look for a place of your own.
This is what the university replied. But my friend is renting herself and is ilegal for her to sublet to me. We will need to make a whole new contract with the Regie. This is to much to ask to a friend who offered me to stay for free in her apartment while I look for my own place.

That is why getting the G permit is a good option. But as you have said, what worries me is the willingness of landlords/Regies to rent an apartment to someone with a G permit.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 28.11.2013, 12:21
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aarau
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
APG87 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Hi FlavioYB,

First of all, Courage! (as they say in french) finding an apartment is not an easy task.
What I dont understand is why your universuty cares where you'll be staying. That is a matter between you and the commune. And it is legal for your friend to offer you a place to stay for a short term, as long as you dont pay her rent, it is not constituted a sublet but you would still have an address.
An other option might be to look for a room to let, it'll be cheaper. Are you working as a researcher or as a doctoral student? if so, you might even be able to get student accommodation
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 28.11.2013, 12:29
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,456
Groaned at 419 Times in 322 Posts
Thanked 17,501 Times in 9,814 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

I would think they're fairly willing, a lot of fronteliers will be working in Geneva so I would guess it's quite common.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 28.11.2013, 12:43
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
FlavioYB has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Quote:
View Post
Hi FlavioYB,
What I dont understand is why your universuty cares where you'll be staying. That is a matter between you and the commune. And it is legal for your friend to offer you a place to stay for a short term, as long as you dont pay her rent, it is not constituted a sublet but you would still have an address.
Neither I or my friend understand this. We explained it in several emails to the university. I even forwarded an email from the Oficine Generale de la Population saying that this is not necesary. But the University still wants a form called "SE entree sous locataire" signed by my friend. When I pointed out that they are asking for my friend to sign a paper which is a lie because I am not subleting they did not care.

Quote:
View Post
Hi FlavioYB,
Are you working as a researcher or as a doctoral student? if so, you might even be able to get student accommodation
I am a post-doc, but I think that postdocs in switzerland are still considered students. I am trying to find a room in a residence for students, but this is very difficult.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 28.11.2013, 13:18
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aarau
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
APG87 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Another option you might consider is getting an airbnb or a short term accommodation to show the university, even if it's for only a week. You can then register with the commune with that address and change it to your friends address until you find a place to stay. The commune and your university shouldnt mind, as long as the person doing the airbnb signs the subletting sheet
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 28.11.2013, 13:34
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
FlavioYB has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Quote:
View Post
Another option you might consider is getting an airbnb or a short term accommodation to show the university, even if it's for only a week. You can then register with the commune with that address and change it to your friends address until you find a place to stay. The commune and your university shouldnt mind, as long as the person doing the airbnb signs the subletting sheet
I have no experience with airbnb. I did look and there are some nice apartments that I could take for a few weeks. Do you know if people who rent through airbnb give you a sublet contract? or is it a more informal thing?. I will send a couple of emails. However I offer the university to reserve two weeks at a hostel and they said that it was no good. Maybe an apartment works, who knows.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 28.11.2013, 13:40
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aarau
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
APG87 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

It might vary from airbnb to airbnb. I did it once in lausanne and got an apartment for 3 weeks, and the guy signed it for me, no problem. But you should check with them before you pay or reserve anything.

have you thought about asking your university why they wont accept your friend, a hostel, short term accommodation? and maybe ask them exactly what they expect? It seems very odd that they care so much about where you'll be living.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank APG87 for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 28.11.2013, 13:46
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
FlavioYB has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Quote:
View Post
have you thought about asking your university why they wont accept your friend, a hostel, short term accommodation? and maybe ask them exactly what they expect? It seems very odd that they care so much about where you'll be living.
Absolutly. The university says that there is a new law that requires them to ask me for all these papers (esentially legal proof of where I am going to leave the next three years). This is a new law, I know a postdoc in the same department that signed a contract one year ago with absolutly no problem.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 28.11.2013, 13:57
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aarau
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
APG87 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

Yeah, with the quota for the EU a few things have changed. You'll need to have your permit in hand before starting work and to have your permit you need an address. But it's a bit ludicrous from the University to expect for you to prove a residence for the next 3 years! I think there is some miscommunication there, because if the commune is happy enough to give you a permit with your riends address, the university shouldnt care.
if you want to have a look at flatshares, anibis.ch is a good option, also if you have facebook, there are a few groups dedicated to finding roomates or flats in geneva.
Good luck
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 28.11.2013, 14:06
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
FlavioYB has no particular reputation at present
Re: Renting in Geneva with frontalier-G permit

I think that it might be related to quotas, but the university does not say. This is why I asked in the forum for renting with G permit. Frontaliers-G permit is not subject to quotas. But the problem is that besides getting the contract, I do want to rent an appartment upon my arrival to Geneva. That is why I was asking if people have experience renting in Geneva with a G permit.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
convert g to b permit, frontalier, g permit




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Living in France with G permit or Geneva with B permit lukka Permits/visas/government 1 03.09.2012 00:13
Renting a flat with a B permit Phil_MCR Housing in general 8 19.06.2011 18:24
Renting an apartment with B permit ryukuma Permits/visas/government 11 08.06.2011 23:29
Renting with an L Permit rjp Housing in general 17 15.05.2011 21:43
Purchasing Flat and renting it out in Zurich with B Permit? blaq Housing in general 6 28.03.2007 08:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0