Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18.01.2014, 21:35
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Baden
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bridi has no particular reputation at present
Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

Hello everybody,

I need your help in understanding the Swiss civil code I might pay 3 months rent !!! - help.
I had a fixed term contact for a room, because the hitherto tenant left abroud with intention to come back, as the previous tenant prolonged the stay abroad I continued the contract beyond expiry, the tenancy become a contract for indefinite duration as per swiss civil code.

"In the case of an indefinite duration tenancy, a termination notice must be given by one of the parties. The law stipulates minimum terms:

Two weeks for furnished rooms, separately rented carports or similar facilities;"

So far so good. I thought I rent a furnished room, as this was advertised so and there is furniture in my room, but it occured that this is not mentioned in my contract that the room is furnished or not furnished - I was newcomer and I don't know German (contract in German).

I'd like to move out and I wanted to terminate the lease agreement with one month notice, but I was informed by my mate landlord claims this agreement was for unfurnished room and even if I move out I shall pay for 3 months otherwise he will inform "Betreibungsregister" .

So the question is if I am simply cheated and what should I do?
Contract doesn't clearly state if this is furnished room.

Thank you for advice in advance,
Bridi
  #2  
Old 18.01.2014, 21:40
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Baden
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bridi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

As I got confused I checked my e-mail discussion with previous tenant who was searching for replacement and I clearly listed the conditions in this that room is furnished and the answer was that this is correct.

What is going on with this people !!!?
  #3  
Old 18.01.2014, 21:46
ximix's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK (formerly Zurich)
Posts: 2,098
Groaned at 22 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 2,315 Times in 1,179 Posts
ximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

I would think that whatever you signed for as per the contract is what goes. Not understanding the language of the contract is no defense. You signed it so it's deemed you understood what you were signing!

Have you established yet what it says on the contract in respect of the room being furnished or unfurnished? Can you get a friend or work colleague who understands German to take a look on your behalf if not?
  #4  
Old 18.01.2014, 21:51
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Baden
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bridi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

This is the issue it says nothing, this says room XXm2 that's it.
So it doesn't say it is not furnished too.
  #5  
Old 18.01.2014, 21:57
ximix's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK (formerly Zurich)
Posts: 2,098
Groaned at 22 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 2,315 Times in 1,179 Posts
ximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond reputeximix has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

I don't know what to suggest further if that's the case and don't want to speculate.

Hopefully other EFers with more experience/knowledge of such matters will step up shortly and comment.

Good luck and hope it all works out well/amicably!

Quote:
View Post
This is the issue it says nothing, this says room XXm2 that's it.
So it doesn't say it is not furnished too.
  #6  
Old 18.01.2014, 21:58
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,679
Groaned at 52 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 9,623 Times in 3,557 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

If you were originally sub-letting for a short period, was it "furnished" because the guy was leaving his furniture while he was away?

His contact with the landlord, hence yours once you took over, may have been for an unfurnished apartment.

It might not be clear in the contact whether it's furnished or not (and I'd expect, if it isn't mentioned that it's probably unfurnished, because that's the norm), but I would expect it to be quite clear about the notice period.
  #7  
Old 18.01.2014, 21:59
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,866
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

The default is unfurnished with long resignation periods. Furnished apartments are very rare here.

Your error seems to be taking over an unfurnished apartment filled with furniture from the ex-tenant, am I right?

You now have to get rid of the furniture and bring the apartment up to an acceptable standard.

I think you ought to join the Mieterverband in your area, and get some good advice. http://www.mieterverband.ch/2136.0.html
The following 2 users would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 18.01.2014, 22:25
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Baden
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bridi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

Quote:
View Post
If you were originally sub-letting for a short period, was it "furnished" because the guy was leaving his furniture while he was away?

His contact with the landlord, hence yours once you took over, may have been for an unfurnished apartment.

It might not be clear in the contact whether it's furnished or not (and I'd expect, if it isn't mentioned that it's probably unfurnished, because that's the norm), but I would expect it to be quite clear about the notice period.
The ex-tanant left the furniture as want to come back in couple of months.
Contract originally was for the fixed term for 6 months without details of notice period. When 6 months passed new contract was not signed, but the rule is that If the parties continue the contract beyond expiry, the tenancy becomes a contract for indefinite duration.

The room was advertised as furnished, but it seems that you are right Mierfield, they wrote in contract "room" not "furnished room", which may mean acc. to law unfurnished. But this is what I would like to make sure of.
  #9  
Old 18.01.2014, 22:27
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Baden
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bridi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

Thank you Sbrins, I will try there .
This user would like to thank Bridi for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 18.01.2014, 22:42
Swissish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Frequent Flier
Posts: 420
Groaned at 30 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 493 Times in 217 Posts
Swissish has earned some respectSwissish has earned some respect
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

What type of deposit did you give?
  #11  
Old 18.01.2014, 22:47
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Baden
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bridi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

I payed one month monthly rent to the account of the mate landlord.

I tried to translate into English:

"The tenant agrees to the date of commencement an amount of CHF XX.00 (in words: frank XX.00) to ensure all claims of the lessor under this lease (rental payments, compensation for early contract termination, compensation according to extraordinary wear and tear, etc. ) due in cash (Article 257E 1 CO)."
  #12  
Old 18.01.2014, 23:32
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,006
Groaned at 505 Times in 430 Posts
Thanked 19,825 Times in 10,472 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

Quote:
View Post
I payed one month monthly rent to the account of the mate landlord.

I tried to translate into English:

"The tenant agrees to the date of commencement an amount of CHF XX.00 (in words: frank XX.00) to ensure all claims of the lessor under this lease (rental payments, compensation for early contract termination, compensation according to extraordinary wear and tear, etc. ) due in cash (Article 257E 1 CO)."
Well if it is officially not furnished then I suppose you could sell this "non-existent" furniture or take the furniture with you to the next place (if practicable).
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 19.01.2014, 00:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ticino
Posts: 2,992
Groaned at 93 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 3,891 Times in 1,553 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

Who did the OP sign the contract with? With the tenant (as a sublet) or with the owner? Maybe I am missing something but that is not clear to me.

Anyway, how can a sublet turn into something permanent? The whole idea of a sublet is that it is temporary. Also, did the tenant advise the owner that he/she was subletting the apartment?

It sounds like a really weird situation to me. Also, if the room was advertised as furnished then that can also be used to dispute the contract.

One thing that puzzles me is that this is the tenant's room. If the subletter (OP) now has an indefinite contract it means that the tenant has nowhere to come back to....that just doesn't compute.

The definitely sounds like a case for the Mieterverband.
This user would like to thank Snoopy for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 19.01.2014, 00:38
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Baden
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bridi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

You are right Snoopy, all this seems very strange.
And this is sub-lease indeed - "Untermietvertrag".

How can sub-lease become something permanent I also wonder.

I guess the following gives answer:

Art. 263

L. Transfer of lease to a third party

1 The tenant of commercial premises may transfer his lease to a third party with the landlord’s written consent.
2 The landlord may withhold consent only for good cause.

3 Once the landlord gives his consent, the third party is subrogated to the rights and obligations of the tenant under the lease.

and this:

Art. 266

O. End of lease

I. Expiry of agreed duration

1 Where the parties have expressly or tacitly agreed to a limited duration, the lease comes to an end on expiry thereof without any need for notice to be given.

2 If the lease is tacitly continued, its duration becomes indefinite.

  #15  
Old 19.01.2014, 00:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ticino
Posts: 2,992
Groaned at 93 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 3,891 Times in 1,553 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

"1 The tenant of commercial premises may transfer his lease to a third party with the landlord’s written consent."

An apartment is not commercial premises. So, that is not applicable.


Also, the main contract with the landlord cannot be transferred to you without your consent. You have a contract with the tenant, have you ever signed a contract with the landlord himself?
  #16  
Old 19.01.2014, 00:56
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Baden
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bridi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

I signed the sub-lease agreement "Untermietvertrag" with two flatmates.
I know that one of them is working for real estate company and he/they are managers of the flat.
But in the contract there are names of my flatmates and our current address, I haven't signed contract with the managing company. Does it mean that if there is the name of the person working for managing company in the contract I have a contract with landlord?
  #17  
Old 19.01.2014, 10:08
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,273
Groaned at 39 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 6,330 Times in 2,915 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

Can you take the argument the other way-

1. Get the previous tenant to write you an email giving you permission to dispose of the furniture and belongings in the room as you see fit
Or.
Get the current tenants to agree either that you or they are responsible for the furniture.

2. Find a replacement tenant and get out of there
Or
Stay the extra three months and move according to the rules.
Or have the current tenant agree that they do not want to sublet anymore, so therefore you do not have to find a replacement.

What you do not want is to pay double rent to them, or be responsible for paying for them to get rid of the furntiture.

Basically, it does sound like you are obligated to give proper notice or find a replacement, but at this time of year, it should be very easy to find a replacement as many people are looking.
  #18  
Old 19.01.2014, 10:13
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,273
Groaned at 39 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 6,330 Times in 2,915 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

Once you tell them you are moving out and plan to find a replacement tenant (nachmieter) they should tell you if they plan to sublet again under the same arrangements, and they obviously need to decide what they think should be done with the furniture.

If they want to substantially change the sublet arrangement (make it short term, furnished or a different price) then normally that let's you off the hook and you are no longer responsible for the process.
  #19  
Old 19.01.2014, 13:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tessin
Posts: 6,369
Groaned at 125 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 7,626 Times in 3,570 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

Quote:
View Post
I signed the sub-lease agreement "Untermietvertrag" with two flatmates.
I know that one of them is working for real estate company and he/they are managers of the flat.
But in the contract there are names of my flatmates and our current address, I haven't signed contract with the managing company. Does it mean that if there is the name of the person working for managing company in the contract I have a contract with landlord?
I assume one or both flatmates speak English. Since you don't understand German, clearly you could not have understood the sublease agreement you signed. If you trusted your flatmates, or the person who occupied the room before you to translate for you, that was a big mistake which I see very often. This is usually how one ends up in situations like yours.

In that agreement it will state whether the rental term is fixed, or not. In a fixed rental term there is no notice period, you move out at the agreed termination date unless otherwise agreed to. If the term was not fixed, the agreement will have a notice period in it, and this could be 3 months. Many furnished rooms have one month notice periods, but I have seen contracts with 3 months as well.

Whatever the contract says is binding. That is what you signed. You cannot claim you didn't understand what you signed.

Decent rooms in Baden are not easy to find. If you need to move out before the notice period, find someone to take over your room. That is your right. If your flatmates object, tell them you are taking them to the "schlichtungsbehörde in Baden. That should give them something to think about.
__________________

  #20  
Old 20.01.2014, 08:05
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Baden
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bridi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Room contract termination problem (furnished room claimed to be unfurnished)

I am wondering, my agreement was fixed term and we I orally agreed with my flatmates and the ex tenant that I prolong for another six months until the tenant is back, why my agreement is automatically prolonged in the light of law to be unlimited time. We agreed before and now on the fixed time as I know that the future tenant will arrive back... Was this not renewal of the existent agreement?
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
owner wants to rent an unfurnished apartment under a furnished rental contract greengrass10 Housing in general 17 28.02.2013 23:31


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0