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-   -   Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/198809-leaving-3-year-swiss-rental-contract-move-abroad.html)

roegner 24.01.2015 14:37

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
I agree with you that the issue is to find a solution. But why should Switzerland adapt to the expats? This is Switzerland not UK, not US or anywhere else.
Wouldn´t you rather want to rent your appartment to someone with a long term view than going through finding a new tennant every couple of months?
And in most cases a solution can be found by finding a "Nachmieter" who will step into the agreement. This is just much more difficult if rent/appartment value is considered to be too high.

Guest 24.01.2015 16:28

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissie7 (Post 2326502)
I don't think your comments are helpful at all. No one in this thread has misunderstood the 'Swiss way of life', but as numerous other people have pointed out, circumstances change – usually beyond a person's control. When a country has so many foreign workers as Switzerland does, many on short-term contracts, it is inevitable that people will have to move on perhaps before they intended and at short notice. It's not a question of evading responsibilities, but of finding a solution to the problem.

My comments unhelpful ??? Why do i have to suffer because your circumstances change, sod it, i'll rent to a Swiss person, problem resolved (for me at least)

Why as a landlord do i have to suffer ?

Short term contract, no problem, make sure you rent agreement takes this into consideration although may cost more to rent.

What i didn't like was the attititude of "stuff it, we'll up and leave and sod the landlord" It is excaclty this attitude which makes landlords highly wary or renting to Joe foreigner as a priuvate person. If Nestle are behind it for instance then no problem

Urs Max 24.01.2015 21:52

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Today, while I find your position and the consequences very understandable, your post is no help to OPs question.

OP, instead of giving free months you might want to lower the advertised rent and pay the difference yourself (that could be done in one lump sum). Additionally, you might want to use multiple agencies (and inform them about it), and offer a bonus which is the higher the sooner they find someone.

doropfiz 25.01.2015 03:17

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
If I were trying to get rid of a flat,
these are some of the things I would do:

Go personally to speak to all the neighbours in the building (and perhaps adjacent buildings in the complex/street). They might like living there, and be happy to suggest the flat to friends of theirs.

Make an A4 ad, with lots of photos, specific measurements, exact figures, plus points (e.g. parking space, accessibility to shops, public transport, schools, swimming, views, park, lake). Ask someone to help write the local language, so the text can be in both languages. Distribute the ad physically in the letter-boxes of the dozen or 20 or so buildings (apartments and businesses) nearest to the flat.

Make a good, small ad (postcard size), bilingual, and hang it up on the free notice-boards in Coop and in Migros. Also ask at eco/bio shops, which often also have such pin-boards. Some local small shops (bakery, butcher, dress shops) may allow you to hang up such a postcard at their till. Remember to make tear-off tags with your telephone number.

Advertise – for free – in as many “small ads” websites as can be found: English Forum, tutti, anibis, gratis-inserate, kijiji, and there may be others, especially locals. In every case, be detailed, and upload the maximum number of photos permissible.

Maybe consider paying to place an ad in larger sites, such as homegate or alle-immobilien, and ronorp, but first compare fees and conditions.

Phone the main dozen or so larger employers in the region (especially also on the public transport axis), and persistently ask to speak to the HR department, or the central secretary, or someone from the personnel commission. Once you have the name and contact details of the person who hires or helps newcomers, send him/her the same A4 ad.

Besides companies, also remember schools, any larger colleges, universities, academies, hospitals, government departments and consular services.

Approach the churches or any organisation (e.g. Salvation Army, tenants’ association, psychiatric clinic, women’s refuge) which helps people in need. Even if the rent is high, remember “needs” are not always financial.

Keep in touch with the landlord, and inform him/her of all the steps you are taking, to try to find a substitute tenant.

Guest 25.01.2015 11:08

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
My point is the cavalier way the OP thought he could deal with a signed contract.

If we all acted this way, then the future will be grim, everything is based on contract and both sides respecting the contract.

If we don't respect, why shouls your landlord, employer, bank, credit card company, anyone basicaly that you have contract with, respect it ?

Jern 25.01.2015 12:12

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

My point is the cavalier way the OP thought he could deal with a signed contract.

If we all acted this way, then the future will be grim, everything is based on contract and both sides respecting the contract.

If we don't respect, why shouls your landlord, employer, bank, credit card company, anyone basicaly that you have contract with, respect it ?
You don't sound like the kind of landlord I would like to rent from. I'm also a landlord, but I wouldn't bang on about the attitude of my tenants when they have problems. Letting property is not risk-free, no matter how much you try to tie up your tenants with contractual obligations. The contract is just a piece of paper, and it's only worth what the tenant is able to pay.

st2lemans 25.01.2015 12:20

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Where is it, how big, and what's the rent?

Tom

st2lemans 25.01.2015 12:23

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenk (Post 2325377)
Who wants to be paying rent when they are 65 ?

Most Swiss. ;)

Tom

Guest 25.01.2015 13:13

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jern (Post 2327046)
You don't sound like the kind of landlord I would like to rent from. I'm also a landlord, but I wouldn't bang on about the attitude of my tenants when they have problems. Letting property is not risk-free, no matter how much you try to tie up your tenants with contractual obligations. The contract is just a piece of paper, and it's only worth what the tenant is able to pay.

I don't bang on when they have problems, i'm more than open to find a solution if the case needs be, but i do explain to people who are new here and don't know hpw our system works, how it works and what the responsibilites are on both sides as it saves a lot of shit when they move out.

The contract is what is agreed, if the tennant can't pay, then either rent is reduced, you give him credit, he oves out, you find another solution.

I agree it is only a piece of papaer but required as people, both landlords and tennants tend to "forget" what was agreed from time to time and it gives a good basis to resolve disputes easily, providing both parties understand the contract and trhe principals of a contract.

If you don't want to respect it, then fine, sobeit, but what happens if your employer decides not to respect the contract or your landlord decides he wants his property back at a moments notice ?

Swiss law is quite tough in both emplyoment and renting but in my opinion is is realtively fair to both parties, but tough.

waterpau 25.01.2015 13:18

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Thanks again for the inputs, there some great ideas which we will definitely try in the limited time we have.

Today, I'm not sure if you were referring to me, I'm sorry if I seemed cavalier about dealing with a signed contract. I'm certainly not feeling like that! We've spent a great deal of time speaking to people, placing adverts online, in Migros, Co-op, at work, and the fact I'm trying to search for an option (including throwing 6000CHFs into the pocket of the next tenant) hopefully shows we're not taking this lightly. We're not people who would drop our obligations without a second thought as you seem to imply...

However, as we all know every problem has a root cause. To me, the root cause of this problem is that no one else wants the apartment we inhabit, with the conditions laid down by the owner. Whether that's because market conditions are changing; that the market for rental in Ticino is inefficient; or that the apartment is simply too expensive. I cannot offer the owner a solution to any of these problems. Therefore, as a tenant, and in any normal country with an efficient market, I don't expect to have to take risks against these things. That is the owners responsibility. I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one:

Quote:

Saying this, if it is a choice between a Swiss person and a foreigner, the dice are pretty much loaded all things being equal
.

Maybe the meaning was lost in translation, but it seems the dice are always loaded in favour of the owner! Nevertheless, we have signed a contract are doing as much as possible to follow the contract.

On the other side of the coin, we looked at an apartment in Agno about 18 months ago; it had been empty for 10 months back then. We asked if the contract period of 3 years was negotiable. No it wasn't. We asked if the rent could be lowered as it seemed high. No it couldn't. I just checked on homegate and it's still there for the same rent. So it's probably been empty for almost 3 years. Maybe the return on capital is so high at the rent asked, that's it's worthwhile leaving the apartment empty until someone takes it. Maybe it's a special case, but that is not market efficiency...

Tom, I was already told off once trying to advertise the apartment here ;). But it's [going to be posted in the right section soon]

Quote:

But why should Switzerland adapt to the expats?
Almost 30% of the people in Switzerland are foreigners, but I can't find figures for how many are transient expats. In percentage terms, and disregarding very small countries, that's the 7th largest percentage in the world, behind the gulf states. Even if only a small percentage are expats here temporarily, surely there must be some consideration that this is a problem? A solution might be shorter contracts with higher rents?

Again, thanks for the honest replies and the advice given.

waterpau

Jern 25.01.2015 13:49

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

I don't bang on when they have problems, i'm more than open to find a solution if the case needs be, but i do explain to people who are new here and don't know hpw our system works, how it works and what the responsibilites are on both sides as it saves a lot of shit when they move out.

The contract is what is agreed, if the tennant can't pay, then either rent is reduced, you give him credit, he oves out, you find another solution.

I agree it is only a piece of papaer but required as people, both landlords and tennants tend to "forget" what was agreed from time to time and it gives a good basis to resolve disputes easily, providing both parties understand the contract and trhe principals of a contract.

If you don't want to respect it, then fine, sobeit, but what happens if your employer decides not to respect the contract or your landlord decides he wants his property back at a moments notice ?

Swiss law is quite tough in both emplyoment and renting but in my opinion is is realtively fair to both parties, but tough.
Granted, it's a good idea to have everything clearly agreed in writing, and of course you need some safeguards. But you have to accept that contracts do get broken - sometimes for very good reasons. Tenants are not as contract-savvy as landlords and never will be, and they are naturally more likely than the landlord to have to end the contract, by the very nature of their status. Letting has its risks, and there's no reason why landlords should expect to be able to oblige the tenant to bear more risk than the landlord.

Guest 25.01.2015 14:19

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jern (Post 2327154)
Granted, it's a good idea to have everything clearly agreed in writing, and of course you need some safeguards. But you have to accept that contracts do get broken - sometimes for very good reasons. Tenants are not as contract-savvy as landlords and never will be, and they are naturally more likely than the landlord to have to end the contract, by the very nature of their status. Letting has its risks, and there's no reason why landlords should expect to be able to oblige the tenant to bear more risk than the landlord.

That's why i'm always careful to explain to a tennant that is new in Switzerland how it works and what the pitfalls maybe.

Ravenk 25.01.2015 19:30

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 2327066)
Most Swiss. ;)

Tom

I can't get my head around wanting to pay out money every month, year after year and at the end a few decades having nowt to show for it.
At least with a mortgage (excluding interest only without an endowment) you have something at the end of 25 years.
As I said, who wants to be worrying about your pension covering the rent when your 65 ...70 ...75 ....80 ....Not me ta

roegner 25.01.2015 19:42

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenk (Post 2327416)
I can't get my head around wanting to pay out money every month, year after year and at the end a few decades having nowt to show for it.
At least with a mortgage (excluding interest only without an endowment) you have something at the end of 25 years.

Nicely said, but........... Not everyone can afford to have 20% of the price of a house in savings as a down payment. Lots of people, also in Switzerland, are happy to be able to manage with their income but cannot save enough to buy.

st2lemans 25.01.2015 19:48

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 2327431)
Nicely said, but........... Not everyone can afford to have 20% of the price of a house in savings as a down payment.

Indeed, we only recently bought our apartment as we only recently had the 35% down (I didn't want a secondary mortgage).

Tom

Phil_MCR 13.02.2015 17:31

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waterpau (Post 2326291)
I'm a UK citizen and we should go to the UAE. Not fulfilling obligations is something I would never have considered in the past, but it's so much money, we'd have a financial headache for several years to come if we paid it all.

are you insane? do you understand the bankruptcy and debt laws in UAE? do you know that a bounced cheque can land you in jail?

what do you think would happen to you if someone enforced their debts while you were in the UAE?

doropfiz 27.02.2015 01:56

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
waterpau

Could you please let us know what happened?
Have you and your landlord found a mutually suitable way for you to be released from your contractual obligations?

Treverus 27.02.2015 02:44

Re: Leaving 3 year swiss rental contract to move abroad
 
After all the discussion weather a contract is a contract:

1. Listen to Phil - you really really don't want to mess with the debt laws in an Arab country. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/536c4ff4-1...44feab7de.html

2. I'll be honest: When I left Switzerland was I aware that finding a tenant for my rather expensive flat in Wollerau would not be easy. I made sure I had the best photos of it and advertised as fast as I could to make sure to find somebody on time. Yes, I paid for those ads on homegate and immoscout or whatever it was called. In the end did I pay one month of rent for the guy taking over to sweeten the deal on top. Totally worth it in comparison to lose big bucks.

What did the OP do? Left it to some agent and hoped for the best... seriously, how naive do you have to be to believe that any agent has the same urgency on the matter you have? For him is it just another unit. It doesn't really matter by when he rents it out as you are obliged to pay till then. You on the other side have a massive interest in a fast deal. You wasted two months, not it's really time to hustle and put the word out anywhere you possibly can... and absolutely forget about agents or people doing the work on your behalf.


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