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Old 28.02.2014, 20:15
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Giving notice before finding Nachmieter [replacement tenant]?

Hello EF,

I have searched the forum and read the many Nachmieter threads but couldn't find the specific answers I seek.

Do we have to give 3-months official notice BEFORE looking for a Nachmieter? And if we find one, do we still have to wait until the three notice dates (March 31, June 30, Sept. 30) or can we make the transfer anytime? Finally, can we pay to post our own ad or do we need the property manager/landlord approval before placing an ad?

We can wait until we find a Nachmieter and move quickly so we would prefer to wait to give notice rather than taking the chance of paying double rent.

(Please please please see and answer this post Mrs. Doolittle)

Last edited by Holly210; 28.02.2014 at 22:00. Reason: added question mark
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Old 28.02.2014, 20:23
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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(Please please please see and answer this post Mrs. Doolittle)
Why not just contact her directly thru PM?
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Old 28.02.2014, 20:51
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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Why not just contact her directly thru PM?
So that others in the future benefit from her sage wisdom and grace
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Old 28.02.2014, 20:54
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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So that others in the future benefit from her sage wisdom and grace
I know this isn't her style, but, if she was a Noob, I would be sure this was all staged...where is my barf bag?


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Old 28.02.2014, 21:03
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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I know this isn't her style, but, if she was a Noob, I would be sure this was all staged...where is my barf bag?


JK Mrs DL
Nope - I honestly do need help and she always gives the most concise and helpful answers!
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Old 28.02.2014, 21:12
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

Easy answer. Let your landlord know that you want to move, and when you intend to be out.

Either you move on an official moving date, or you find a nachmieter.

But it is best to ask the landlord to instruct you as to with they want a nachmieter. If the landlord wants to put the rent up or do renovations, or both then you would be off the hook as you would not be required to find a replacement tenant.

So, best to speak to your landlord first...
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Old 28.02.2014, 21:56
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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Easy answer. Let your landlord know that you want to move, and when you intend to be out.

Either you move on an official moving date, or you find a nachmieter.

But it is best to ask the landlord to instruct you as to with they want a nachmieter. If the landlord wants to put the rent up or do renovations, or both then you would be off the hook as you would not be required to find a replacement tenant.

So, best to speak to your landlord first...
We made an informal inquiry, he wants a Nachmieter if we move before our lease is up. And he will hold us to our lease for the next 1.5 years. But we want out of this apartment. So...we are flexible, if we find someone and they want the place in a month we'll figure it out. What we DON'T want is to give notice and not have a Nachmieter at the end of the notice and get stuck paying two rents.

Please, don't berate me for not liking my apartment after moving in. Lesson learned, thanks, let's move on. Also, I am losing my job (new mother) and we want to shorten my husband's commute. We were deceived by the landlord who lied in answer to our direct questions. Now, we are trying to find a way out that causes the least damage to us.
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Old 28.02.2014, 22:16
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

In that case out does sound like you are free to advertise and set something up.

The usual advice given here is to join the tenants advice service in your area so that you have some backup in case of problems.

If you signed a long lease then the three months notice probably only applies to terminating the lease before the end date, but I would read the fine print closely
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Old 28.02.2014, 23:06
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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In that case out does sound like you are free to advertise and set something up.

The usual advice given here is to join the tenants advice service in your area so that you have some backup in case of problems.

If you signed a long lease then the three months notice probably only applies to terminating the lease before the end date, but I would read the fine print closely
We joined the Mieterverband last year but they don't have many English speakers in our Canton, and haven't been much help. We do want to terminate before the end date but what we want to know is if we 1. Have to give notice before seeking a Nachmieter, 2. If we find one do we have to wait until a notice date or can we transfer anytime, and 3. Can we post our own ad or do we need our landlord's approval?
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Old 28.02.2014, 23:10
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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In that case out does sound like you are free to advertise and set something up.

The usual advice given here is to join the tenants advice service in your area so that you have some backup in case of problems.

If you signed a long lease then the three months notice probably only applies to terminating the lease before the end date, but I would read the fine print closely
Wait...can we terminate the lease before the end date?
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Old 28.02.2014, 23:56
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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what we want to know is if we 1. Have to give notice before seeking a Nachmieter, 2. If we find one do we have to wait until a notice date or can we transfer anytime, and 3. Can we post our own ad or do we need our landlord's approval?
I have just been through this. For what it's worth, my experience was:

1. I gave my notice, and placed an ad looking for a Nachmieter the following day. Out of politeness if nothing else, since the landlord is going to be very surprised and not very happy if he starts getting calls from potential Nachmieter when he hasn't even been informed that you are leaving.

2. If you find a Nachmieter, then I think you are off the hook in terms of rent starting from the entry date on the Nachmieter's lease.

3. I posted and paid for my own ads without asking the landlord to approve them. This seemed like the logical thing to do as I was moving out "early" and therefore breaking a contract, but I have no idea if there are any specific rules.
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Old 01.03.2014, 00:34
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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I have just been through this. For what it's worth, my experience was:

1. I gave my notice, and placed an ad looking for a Nachmieter the following day. Out of politeness if nothing else, since the landlord is going to be very surprised and not very happy if he starts getting calls from potential Nachmieter when he hasn't even been informed that you are leaving.

2. If you find a Nachmieter, then I think you are off the hook in terms of rent starting from the entry date on the Nachmieter's lease.

3. I posted and paid for my own ads without asking the landlord to approve them. This seemed like the logical thing to do as I was moving out "early" and therefore breaking a contract, but I have no idea if there are any specific rules.
Thank you! We are going to tell the landlord. We want to know if we are required to give notice. We have until December at latest (although we want to move June) and we would rather not get stuck paying two rents.

So, still interested in knowing if we have to give notice before looking, and any other insights or anecdotes related to the other questions.
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Old 01.03.2014, 02:29
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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I know this isn't her style, but, if she was a Noob, I would be sure this was all staged...where is my barf bag?


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You are very funny. This is the first time I saw this thread.

The notice conditions are in the lease and this would give clear dates and spell out the notice period.

You cannot find the nachmieter without first giving the notice saying you want to vacate the apartment to the end of "X" month. Ideally this would be the first date in your lease where you can give notice. But if you really want to move sooner, that is the reason for seeking the nachmieter. You need to advise the landlord of your intention to do so. Ask for application forms. The landlord should fill in the rent information and the deposit conditions (the amount). The completed application forms are sent to the landlord by the interested party.

You need to do everything in writing by registered mail and the landlord needs to confirm receipt of your notice.

In most cases where a property is privately owned the tenant will need to run the ad with their own details but there are exceptions so you need to confirm with the landlord who is doing what. The contact details in the ad should be the tenants since they will be arranging the viewings. It is not acceptable to put your landlord's details without prior agreement.

Keep a list of the names of all persons who view the apartment. Try to follow up to see who applied.

A nachmieter takes on the same rental conditions so the basic rent cannot be increased. If the landlord wants to increase the basic rent (not the NK) you are off the hook. If you do not have a pet, confirm with the landlord if a pet is allowed. If not, put NO PETS in the ad. Saves people having to ask.

Given the noise problem from upstairs (OP has other threads about this) it could be difficult to find a nachmieter. But first you must try before taking the matter further. It is possible to be released from finding a nachmieter but you need a reason. If you demonstrate you have tried your chances of breaking your contract are greater.

You are correct, there are very few English speakers affiliated with the Mieterverband in Aargau.

If paying two rents is out of the question, you are going to have to be patient. Your chances of generating interest for a viewing will be greater if you make sure your place is tidy before you take photos, and give as much information as possible in the ad.

If you have a copy of the ad when you first rented the flat, that sometimes helps when creating your own.

Given your location, I think you need to run the ad in German. If you use Homegate, you can set up a viewing schedule and interested persons can sign up. Advertise locally as well.

In your Gemeinde there is a chance to advertise through their website.
http://www.muhen.ch/index1.htm.
Just send them an email with the information. They will place the information under "Aktuelle Angebote".

From your previous posts it sounds like your living environment is really unpleasant. I hope you can find a good solution.
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Old 01.03.2014, 12:00
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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The notice conditions are in the lease and this would give clear dates and spell out the notice period.

You cannot find the nachmieter without first giving the notice saying you want to vacate the apartment to the end of "X" month. Ideally this would be the first date in your lease where you can give notice. But if you really want to move sooner, that is the reason for seeking the nachmieter. You need to advise the landlord of your intention to do so. Ask for application forms. The landlord should fill in the rent information and the deposit conditions (the amount). The completed application forms are sent to the landlord by the interested party.

.....

If paying two rents is out of the question, you are going to have to be patient. Your chances of generating interest for a viewing will be greater if you make sure your place is tidy before you take photos, and give as much information as possible in the ad.
Thank you so much! This is a very helpful reply.

However, it strikes to the heart of my confusion.

Here are the facts:
-Our lease is in force until Sept. 2015
-Our notice periods are 3 months with notice given by March 31, June 30, Sept. 30.
-We don't mind waiting to find a Nachmieter who is happy with the apartment, and moving very quickly once a Nachmieter is found (i.e., we are willing to wait to find an apartment until a Nachmieter has been found).
-Very importantly, we don't want to end up paying two rents - with me losing my job in May, and my husband losing his in September that is almost impossible.
-We know the landlord waited 6 months before taking tenants the last time, and was running a very poor advertisement.


So, if we give notice March 31 that we want to vacate the apartment, and July 1 comes without a Nachmieter, what happens to us?

Can we tell the landlord we are looking for a Nachmieter but do it informally, then, when dates work for everyone give notice they want to take over, even if it is outside an official notice period?
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Old 01.03.2014, 12:52
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

I don't think there is any way to guarantee that you can move without paying double rent. But advertising well ahead, and making a good advertisement, and making sure it is advertised both on the websites as well as other places (my suggestions would be the local migros and coop, english forum, ronorp). Then it takes resourcefulness and a bit of luck to coordinate it as best you can.

In the meantime, it goes without saying that you need a nest egg to cover your moving costs, and to seriously downsize your costs in preparation for the new baby. The good thing is that babies don't need much (i promise, they get more expensive when they get older! )...

I think if you inform your landlord of your situation regarding very dramatic change to your work and living situation, then that probably works in your Favour as you have a legitimate reason for moving, and on a personal level, being honest and trying to to things correctly and well ahead of time, is a good idea to begin with. For now, your position is the same, he has a reliable paying tenant, and from his point of view, the changes are your responsibility so you are the ones who will need to do the legwork. So try to make it as simple as possible from his side.

If it was me, I would tidy the place up, take some really good photos, put an advertisement together and email this along with a letter explaining that you wish to be released due to financial/family situation, and that you would like to find a replacement tenant with the goal of moving by the official moving date, would he please review the attached advertisement and give his approval, and you will then place it on homegate etc.

From then, he should not need to do anything, until you have found one or more potential applicants. Maybe he Can provide a copy of his preferred application documentation, to help with the process.
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Old 01.03.2014, 13:36
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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I don't think there is any way to guarantee that you can move without paying double rent. But advertising well ahead, and making a good advertisement, and making sure it is advertised both on the websites as well as other places (my suggestions would be the local migros and coop, english forum, ronorp). Then it takes resourcefulness and a bit of luck to coordinate it as best you can.

In the meantime, it goes without saying that you need a nest egg to cover your moving costs, and to seriously downsize your costs in preparation for the new baby. The good thing is that babies don't need much (i promise, they get more expensive when they get older! )...

I think if you inform your landlord of your situation regarding very dramatic change to your work and living situation, then that probably works in your Favour as you have a legitimate reason for moving, and on a personal level, being honest and trying to to things correctly and well ahead of time, is a good idea to begin with. For now, your position is the same, he has a reliable paying tenant, and from his point of view, the changes are your responsibility so you are the ones who will need to do the legwork. So try to make it as simple as possible from his side.

If it was me, I would tidy the place up, take some really good photos, put an advertisement together and email this along with a letter explaining that you wish to be released due to financial/family situation, and that you would like to find a replacement tenant with the goal of moving by the official moving date, would he please review the attached advertisement and give his approval, and you will then place it on homegate etc.

From then, he should not need to do anything, until you have found one or more potential applicants. Maybe he Can provide a copy of his preferred application documentation, to help with the process.
Really good advice, and thank you. We will do most of what has been suggested.

The baby is already here, and the noise wasn't a problem until she hit 2.5 months - now the neighbor noise is waking her up, which is completely unacceptable.

We are drafting this e-mail, we will gladly accept any suggestions as to language or content:


Dear Landlord,

We are sorry to bother you again. We can empathize with you, we know you just want easy tenants who cause no problem. But, we are asking you please to empathize with us. You are a nice man and we can't believe you would force someone to live in these conditions, if you were aware of how bad they are. This is an incredibly stressful environment, and we will lose our jobs soon, making the situation much worse.

We have tolerated this awful situation because you do not want to be bothered and we have been very busy with our newborn child.

But we cannot tolerate this anymore because the loud noises from the neighbors (as we have described previously) have started waking our infant daughter from sleep. This is unacceptable and it is unhealthy for our baby.

To add to our troubles I am losing my job in May and my husband is likely losing his in September. I will take care of our baby at home, and he is currently applying for jobs in Basel and the United States. However, without reliable income we probably cannot afford to pay two rents if we have to move to get away from this situation - which is the likely solution.


Can we try this option?

We immediately begin enthusiastically looking for a Nachmieter without giving formal notice. We will advertise the apartment as "available by arrangement" and do our best to move very quickly if that is what a Nachmieter wants. But, if we have not found a Nachmieter by 30 June, you agree to release us from our lease per August 31? This would render our lease a one-year contract which, we have learned, is much more common in Switzerland.

Please, can we try that? We are appealing to your compassion and good nature. We would like our relationship with you to remain friendly and end on good terms.


We have already written a very nice description of the apartment in English and Swiss German (attached) and have nice photos too. Additionally, we have attached an application form from the Mieterverband website which we would like to use if possible (we joined their organization last year), unless you have one you prefer.

If you say this is OK then we will begin advertising.

Last edited by Holly210; 01.03.2014 at 13:45. Reason: clarity
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Old 01.03.2014, 20:39
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Thank you so much! This is a very helpful reply.

However, it strikes to the heart of my confusion.

Here are the facts:
-Our lease is in force until Sept. 2015
-Our notice periods are 3 months with notice given by March 31, June 30, Sept. 30.


-We don't mind waiting to find a Nachmieter who is happy with the apartment, and moving very quickly once a Nachmieter is found (i.e., we are willing to wait to find an apartment until a Nachmieter has been found).
-Very importantly, we don't want to end up paying two rents - with me losing my job in May, and my husband losing his in September that is almost impossible.
-We know the landlord waited 6 months before taking tenants the last time, and was running a very poor advertisement.

So, if we give notice March 31 that we want to vacate the apartment, and July 1 comes without a Nachmieter, what happens to us?

Can we tell the landlord we are looking for a Nachmieter but do it informally, then, when dates work for everyone give notice they want to take over, even if it is outside an official notice period?
Are you absolutely certain you can give notice this soon? Often with long leases you need to have stayed at least one year before you can give notice. There are exceptions, of course. Maybe your lease falls into this category.

You cannot do anything informally, nothing which is legally binding.

As for the letter in your below post, I would not send it. If the noise is intolerable, you should fight and win the right to move. The landlord is aware of the problem and it sounds like he refuses to do anything about it. Finding a nachmieter appears to be almost impossible. Do you really want to inflict this problem on someone else?

Job loss can be a reason to break a lease. (this is complicated and needs to be decided by a court). Given this situation, I am not sure why you would want to make a new rental commitment elsewhere.

If your husband might find a job in the US, I would say just stay put for now. If you want to stay here, and win the right to move without finding a nachmieter, you need to write the landlord and tell him you have had enough and pay the rent into the Schlichtungsbehörde. I have already posted on your other thread so you know what you need to do.

I am still not clear what is the source of the noise upstairs and this still seems something needing investigation.

How are your German skills? I have a few contacts near Aarau but they don't speak English.

Some landlords need to be taught a lesson. Yours sounds like one of them.
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Old 01.03.2014, 20:45
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

I saw this on another thread, and wonder if it would apply in our case. The reason I wonder is that when I was hired in April 2013 (having been honest beforehand and told my potential employer I was pregnant during the interview stage) I was told my position was for 3 years, although the contract was "renewed" yearly. Based on that, and that reason only, my husband and I signed a 2-year contract on the apartment. We did not expect that my contract would not be renewed but the unexpected resignation of a colleague made my boss decide he needed to replace me (returning to work at 70%) too to meet productivity goals by the end of the year.

http://www.hev-schweiz.ch/vermieten-...kel/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=964&cHash=bff5af167367c63211ba3ba50bf24f87

Oh dear...according to art 266g of the code of obligations, notice can be given in cases where an event takes place that was unforeseeable when the lease was signed and which makes the continuation of the lease unreasonable (Unzumutbar).
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Old 01.03.2014, 21:02
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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Are you absolutely certain you can give notice this soon? Often with long leases you need to have stayed at least one year before you can give notice. There are exceptions, of course. Maybe your lease falls into this category.
I don't know. As far as I can tell, no. I asked about this previously and the landlord said (paraphrasing) "sure, you can move, if you find a Nachmieter"

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As for the letter in your below post, I would not send it. If the noise is intolerable, you should fight and win the right to move. The landlord is aware of the problem and it sounds like he refuses to do anything about it. Finding a nachmieter appears to be almost impossible. Do you really want to inflict this problem on someone else?
Urghghgh. We sent it already. He has so far refused to do anything about it, yes. We do not want to inflict this on anyone, please think the best of us. We are going to be upfront with people about this. But, consider there are people on this forum who have posted because they are asked to move for being noisy - ours would be the perfect apartment for them. Also, everything I have learned from this forum and Swiss code indicates I can fight and I will lose.

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Job loss can be a reason to break a lease. (this is complicated and needs to be decided by a court). Given this situation, I am not sure why you would want to make a new rental commitment elsewhere.
Job loss...happening. Unexpected (why we signed the 2-year lease, see below). We don't want to make a new commitment elsewhere, we would try to find a 6-mos or month to month (and a friend is offering us this) or pay for a furnished apt. or find a sublet that suits our needs.

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If your husband might find a job in the US, I would say just stay put for now. If you want to stay here, and win the right to move without finding a nachmieter, you need to write the landlord and tell him you have had enough and pay the rent into the Schlichtungsbehörde. I have already posted on your other thread so you know what you need to do.
This isn't a gambit. My husband doesn't have another job. He has only started applying for jobs. We only found out recently that I am out of a job in May. And, although his employer is trying to find funds, my husband is out of a job in September. We are doing our best. This is a depressing situation in which everything has gone wrong and we were foolish for signing a 2-year lease based on the verbal promises of an employer who actually doesn't want new mothers in his employ. We have repeatedly told the landlord this is a horrible situation. We wanted to try and end this amicably before going to the Schlichtungsbehörde. And we greatly appreciate the previous advice you gave! Also, and most importantly, this has become an unhealthy environment for our baby - if she can't sleep I want out as soon as possible!

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I am still not clear what is the source of the noise upstairs and this still seems something needing investigation.
We think they are a Tagesmutter during the week. We cannot PROVE that. But, all signs point to Yes. They maintain their grandchild has many "friends". Therefore, we think a noisy family would be the perfect fit here.

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How are your German skills? I have a few contacts near Aarau but they don't speak English.
Not good. I am taking an intensive A1 (1/3) course at nights now.

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Some landlords need to be taught a lesson. Yours sounds like one of them.
AGREED!

Last edited by Holly210; 01.03.2014 at 21:17.
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Old 01.03.2014, 21:06
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Re: Giving notice before finding Nachmieter?

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http://www.hev-schweiz.ch/vermieten-...kel/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=964&cHash=bff5af167367c63211ba3ba50bf24f87

Oh dear...according to art 266g of the code of obligations, notice can be given in cases where an event takes place that was unforeseeable when the lease was signed and which makes the continuation of the lease unreasonable (Unzumutbar).
And I would urge you to read on to the second paragraph of that particular article of the law which states that a judge will determine how much you will need to pay your landlord in compensation. So, it is far more complex than writing a letter giving notice and walking away.

Also, I would be very careful not to confuse matters. Do you want out because of your employment situation or because of the noise? They are two very different issues with two very different courses of action. Mixing the two will only serve to complicate matters and, no doubt, cause you additional grief.

My personal opinion FWIW is to go the noise route. Go with the mediation as Mrs. Doolittle has already suggested. Paying the rent to the mediators rather than to the landlord tends to get the landlord to focus. If you play your cards right you may be able to negotiate a right to move immediately you find something else without having to find a replacement tenant. You will have to demonstrate however that the noise is really bad.

Last edited by Snoopy; 01.03.2014 at 21:06. Reason: Saw above post
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