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Old 01.03.2014, 08:07
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Nebenkosten [additional rental costs]

Hi All,

I have a 3 Zimmer Wohnung. This is what is says in the Mietvertrag. Mietvertrag includes states the rent and the nebenkosten (akonto).

I handed in my notice last November for the end of March. All of a suden the management company start sending me bills for a 4,0 Zimmer Wohnung saying that the wrong Schluessel was used to calculate Bills.

I have told then that I only have a 3,0 Wohnung as stated in the Mietvertrag but they are insisting that I pay the Bills for a 4,0 Wohnung. I said this is not possible - if we have a contract for apples and you send me a bill for oranges??? however- they are very persistent!


Any advice?
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Old 01.03.2014, 08:38
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Re: Nebenkostenabrechnung

Are you a member of a renters association?
And.... How many physical rooms does the apt have? If it physically has 4 rooms then I am not sure of your rights, I mean both you and your landlord signed for a 3 zimmer and a contract is a contract... But I am not a lawyer.....
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Old 01.03.2014, 08:48
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Re: Nebenkosten

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Hi All,

I have a 3 Zimmer Wohnung. This is what is says in the Mietvertrag. Mietvertrag includes states the rent and the nebenkosten (akonto).

I handed in my notice last November for the end of March. All of a suden the management company start sending me bills for a 4,0 Zimmer Wohnung saying that the wrong Schluessel was used to calculate Bills.

I have told then that I only have a 3,0 Wohnung as stated in the Mietvertrag but they are insisting that I pay the Bills for a 4,0 Wohnung. I said this is not possible - if we have a contract for apples and you send me a bill for oranges??? however- they are very persistent!


Any advice?
My advice...speak english on an english speaking forum! Pat on the back for picking up a few words in german but please don't try to show off...lol! You are clearly not up to much in german (if you were, you could ask these questions in full german to a local!)

Please don't forget that we don't all speak (german) here...because of the way you posted...from me you get no help and just a sarcastic remark instead!
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Old 01.03.2014, 08:50
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Re: Nebenkosten

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My advice...speak english on an english speaking forum! Pat on the back for picking up a few words in german but please don't try to show off...lol! You are clearly not up to much in german (if you were, you could ask these questions in full german to a local!)

Please don't forget that we don't all speak (german) here...because of the way you posted...from me you get no help and just a sarcastic remark instead!
He only used German nouns to explain his problem. If he translated the nouns the thread would be hard to understand: additional costs, rental contract, partial payment, rooms, apartment, table or key, etc.
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Old 01.03.2014, 08:58
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Re: Nebenkosten

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He only used German nouns to explain his problem. If he translated the nouns the thread would be hard to understand: additional costs, rental contract, partial payment, rooms, apartment, table or key, etc.
But somehow you managed to translate these nouns without a problem?
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Old 01.03.2014, 09:10
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Re: Nebenkosten

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But somehow you managed to translate these nouns without a problem?
Because they are the same terms that come up time and time again and it doesn't really take a genius to work them out.
Anybody who rents in the German speaking part of Switzerland ( and let's face it they are in the majority) and a significant proportion of the rest of us will have seen or heard them used before too.

I do applaud your determination to eradicate all foreign ( for that read German) words in posts on here but in this case I agree with Sbrinz, it would be ridiculous to use only the English translations and I think the OP will receive more help by using the German terms.
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Old 01.03.2014, 09:20
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Re: Nebenkosten

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My advice...speak english on an english speaking forum! Pat on the back for picking up a few words in german but please don't try to show off...lol! You are clearly not up to much in german (if you were, you could ask these questions in full german to a local!)

Please don't forget that we don't all speak (german) here...because of the way you posted...from me you get no help and just a sarcastic remark instead!
You seem to have a pomme frite on your Schulter
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Old 01.03.2014, 09:20
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Re: Nebenkosten

Not only, but some terms would translate differently depending on where the person learnt their English.

Tom
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Old 01.03.2014, 09:22
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Re: Nebenkosten

Its a legal issue, so the exact terms in German are important for reference.
Although this is an English speaking forum, frequently providing advice to expats, I think it is important for the integrity of the information that people share

I think wen people do a google search relating to these things, they refer to the German words in order to get the information they want. (These words can be translated easily using google or any online dictionary.)

Anyway, I would welcome some advice not sarcastic remarks.
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Old 01.03.2014, 09:22
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Re: Nebenkosten

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You seem to have a pomme frite on your Schulter
See, that wouldn't work for an American!

Tom
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Old 01.03.2014, 09:29
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Re: Nebenkosten

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Hi All,

I have a 3 Zimmer Wohnung. This is what is says in the Mietvertrag. Mietvertrag includes states the rent and the nebenkosten (akonto).

I handed in my notice last November for the end of March. All of a suden the management company start sending me bills for a 4,0 Zimmer Wohnung saying that the wrong Schluessel was used to calculate Bills.

I have told then that I only have a 3,0 Wohnung as stated in the Mietvertrag but they are insisting that I pay the Bills for a 4,0 Wohnung. I said this is not possible - if we have a contract for apples and you send me a bill for oranges??? however- they are very persistent!


Any advice?
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My advice...speak english on an english speaking forum! Pat on the back for picking up a few words in german but please don't try to show off...lol! You are clearly not up to much in german (if you were, you could ask these questions in full german to a local!)

Please don't forget that we don't all speak (german) here...because of the way you posted...from me you get no help and just a sarcastic remark instead!
The terms are the correct way to refer to them especially when seeking advice. If the english terms were used then the advice would be useless. There are some clear terms and a x Zimmer Wohnung, Nebenkosten, Mietvertrag etc is the correct way to ask the question so that the people on here who can make the advice know what is actually being asked. In fact the posting title has a german word in it.

Its an english forum to help english speakers live in Switzerland that doesn't mean the local words are banned, in fact they should be encouraged to help the objective of being able to live here.
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Old 01.03.2014, 09:46
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Re: Nebenkosten

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Hi All,

I have a 3 Zimmer Wohnung. This is what is says in the Mietvertrag. Mietvertrag includes states the rent and the nebenkosten (akonto).

I handed in my notice last November for the end of March. All of a suden the management company start sending me bills for a 4,0 Zimmer Wohnung saying that the wrong Schluessel was used to calculate Bills.

I have told then that I only have a 3,0 Wohnung as stated in the Mietvertrag but they are insisting that I pay the Bills for a 4,0 Wohnung. I said this is not possible - if we have a contract for apples and you send me a bill for oranges??? however- they are very persistent!


Any advice?
Hi Southern Star,
I would vigorously challenge this.
My perspective is that it is their mistake & by extension their problem.

Is it correct to say that the numbers are written up explicitly in the contract? If yes then that is the basis of your agreement, simple as that in my opinion.

hope it works out for you.

H.
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Old 01.03.2014, 09:55
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Re: Nebenkosten

Yes, the case is that it explicitly states in the Rental Contract/Mietvertrag that the apartment is a 3.0 Zimmer Wohnung. In fact in all correspondences we have received from the management company, they have always referenced our apartment as a 3,0 Zimmer Wohnung.

They have used rooms as the Schlussel to calculate the Nebenkosten. However, not all the apartments in our building have the same number of rooms but vary in size based on m2. For example, our neighbour upstairs has a 4.0 Zimmer Apartment but it has an extra 20m2. (they now say we have a 4.0 Zimmer apartment but it is actually smaller in m2 than the other units)

I actually told the management company that if they should reissue the bill based on m2.
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Old 01.03.2014, 10:00
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Re: Nebenkosten

It's pretty simple. Do you actually have a '3 Zimmer Wohnung'?

In Zurich that would usually be two bedrooms, living room plus kitchen and bathroom.

Have you written your objection (in German) and including a copy of the rental contract which clearly states that it is rented as a 3 room?

In the politely worded letter I would point out that it is quite clearly written in the documentation what you agreed to, and if they are not able to resolve this, then you will seek further professional advice.
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Old 01.03.2014, 10:10
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Re: Nebenkosten

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I actually told the management company that they should reissue the bill based on m2.
That is how ours has always been calculated.

Tom
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Old 01.03.2014, 10:14
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Re: Nebenkosten

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It's pretty simple. Do you actually have a '3 Zimmer Wohnung'?

In Zurich that would usually be two bedrooms, living room plus kitchen and bathroom.

Have you written your objection (in German) and including a copy of the rental contract which clearly states that it is rented as a 3 room?

In the politely worded letter I would point out that it is quite clearly written in the documentation what you agreed to, and if they are not able to resolve this, then you will seek further professional advice.
I have written in English. We have always communicated on that basis. They send correspondences in German and I reply in English. This practice has been established between us.

One point I must add - they originally issued the Nebenkostenabrechnung for a 3.0 Zimmer Wohnung and this was promptly paid. Then, maybe coincidentally, following my notice to leave, a new Nebenkostenabrechnung was sent out, stating that the wrong Schlüssel had been used and that the Nebenkosten are now for a 4.0 Zimmerwohnung. I told then I cant pay this, as I only have a Mietvertrag for 3.0 Zimmer and also asked them if they could reissue as a 3.0 Zimmer or revise it based on m2 - however they have not.
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Old 01.03.2014, 11:23
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Re: Nebenkosten

Just to clarify something, maybe you are mistaken.

A 4 room apartment has 3 bedrooms, a living room, kitchen, bathroom, maybe a hall.

A 3 room apartment has 2 bedrooms, a living room, kitchen, bathroom, maybe a hall.
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Old 01.03.2014, 11:34
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Re: Nebenkosten

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My advice...speak english on an english speaking forum! Pat on the back for picking up a few words in german but please don't try to show off...lol! You are clearly not up to much in german (if you were, you could ask these questions in full german to a local!)

Please don't forget that we don't all speak (german) here...because of the way you posted...from me you get no help and just a sarcastic remark instead!
I don't think I would even know how to say Nebenkosten in English... extra charges? Ancillary charges?
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Old 01.03.2014, 11:54
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Re: Nebenkosten

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The terms are the correct way to refer to them especially when seeking advice. If the english terms were used then the advice would be useless. There are some clear terms and a x Zimmer Wohnung, Nebenkosten, Mietvertrag etc is the correct way to ask the question so that the people on here who can make the advice know what is actually being asked. In fact the posting title has a german word in it.

Its an english forum to help english speakers live in Switzerland that doesn't mean the local words are banned, in fact they should be encouraged to help the objective of being able to live here.
You're right they are correct in the OP's case and for everyone who lives in the German speaking part of Switzerland.

If the OP lived in Romandie or Ticino then the French or Italian terms would be correct.
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Old 01.03.2014, 12:27
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Re: Nebenkosten

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Just to clarify something, maybe you are mistaken.

A 4 room apartment has 3 bedrooms, a living room, kitchen, bathroom, maybe a hall.

A 3 room apartment has 2 bedrooms, a living room, kitchen, bathroom, maybe a hall.
Is this description a legal definition i.e. Is it in a regulation or some similar instrument?
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