Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11.03.2014, 22:38
ljk ljk is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: kreuzlingen
Posts: 28
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 13 Posts
ljk has no particular reputation at present
Besenrein/Endreinigung ["Brush Clean" vs. Full End Clean]

Hello,

when moving out what determines whether something should be Besenrein or as clean as with an Endreinigung when moving out?

Does anyone know where the line is drawn here?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12.03.2014, 00:07
Tasebo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wald, Zurich/Stockholm
Posts: 1,342
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 1,461 Times in 729 Posts
Tasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung

I was told it depends on whether you are moving out as renter (Endreinigung) or former owner of property that has been bought (Besenrein). I have no clue whether there is any truth to this, or if the woman we bought our house from decided that
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12.03.2014, 00:12
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,298
Groaned at 39 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 6,384 Times in 2,935 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung

I don't know if it helps, but we moved out of a building that was going to be demolished, so 'besenrein' (sweep-clean) was what we were advised by the agency. They were mostly concerned that all rubbish would be removed, particularly as they were already noticing that not only were outgoing tenants leaving items behind the apartment block also seemed to be 'collecting' miscellaneous rubbish from elsewhere....

We found it easiest to actually ask the landlord for a list of requirements, in writing. The advantage of this is that a) it is quite clear what is expected, b) no nasty surprises later if they forgot to mention something and c) you have a written record if anything is an unreasonable request.

I think the 'rules' are fairly clear, it's just that both sides often try to bend them, and then it gets very likely that there will be a disagreement...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12.03.2014, 00:15
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,298
Groaned at 39 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 6,384 Times in 2,935 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung

One of the agreements that might be made is that a property changes hands 'as is'. We had this when a previous apartment was sold. The previous owner signed off on the exit inspection, and this was done the day before the property settlement was finalized. The new owner had no recourse with us as to the state of the property....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12.03.2014, 16:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,385
Groaned at 125 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 7,679 Times in 3,590 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung

Quote:
View Post
Hello,

when moving out what determines whether something should be Besenrein or as clean as with an Endreinigung when moving out?

Does anyone know where the line is drawn here?

Thanks.
Generally speaking, the cellar and garage are to be swept but not just the floors, you need to "sweep" the ceiling and walls free of cobwebs, and window areas as well need to be cleaned.

Of course, there are exceptions. You might refer to the condition when you moved in.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12.03.2014, 16:12
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung

It can depend on the city or gemeinde. Basel Stadt for example by default is Besenrein. Why don't you call your local gemeinde and enquire?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12.03.2014, 16:16
ljk ljk is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: kreuzlingen
Posts: 28
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 13 Posts
ljk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung

Thankyou.

My question is really to glean info regarding this with respect to renovations. Our kitchen has been quoted at needing at least a full day of a two day End clean to be completely "end clean". However, my landlords are ripping the entire kitchen out except fridge freezer and oven. The hob is going, the extractor is going, the cupboards are going. everything!

So you see, since they plan on doing this in summer after we leave, do we still need to have a kitchen that is "end clean" or "sweep clean"? I have read that it would only need to be sweep clean in such cases of rennovation, but they want to rent out directly when we leave, meaning the rennovation would be after the new tenants move in, meaning a kitchen would be there for about 1 month between moving out and renovation.

I have a feeling it will therefore still be End Clean regardless, because they will rent in the meantime right?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12.03.2014, 16:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,385
Groaned at 125 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 7,679 Times in 3,590 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung

If the renovation were directly following the end of your tenancy, you could negotiate this matter with the landlord. I have done this for clients.

However, as someone is moving in immediately, then I think there is no way around the end cleaning.

I really cannot understand why tenants would move in knowing the kitchen is going to ripped out in a month. That makes no sense to me.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12.03.2014, 16:50
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,783
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung

Quote:
View Post
I have a feeling it will therefore still be End Clean regardless, because they will rent in the meantime right?
Instead of feeling, thinking, and guessing you should start asking, communicating, and talking with your landlord.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 12.03.2014, 19:58
Tasebo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wald, Zurich/Stockholm
Posts: 1,342
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 1,461 Times in 729 Posts
Tasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung

Quote:
View Post
If the renovation were directly following the end of your tenancy, you could negotiate this matter with the landlord. I have done this for clients.

However, as someone is moving in immediately, then I think there is no way around the end cleaning.

I really cannot understand why tenants would move in knowing the kitchen is going to ripped out in a month. That makes no sense to me.
It could be that the new tenants are taking over the flat, but not living there 100% until after the renovation. I can imagine a scenario where someone finds a flat they like for the right price in the right location. Perhaps they will be traveling during the renovation, or?

Having experienced a similar scenario a few years back in UK I empathise with OP
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 14.03.2014, 07:00
ljk ljk is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: kreuzlingen
Posts: 28
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 28 Times in 13 Posts
ljk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung ["Brush Clean" vs. Full End Clean]

Ok, we have spoken with the landlords, any help here?

They are going to do massive renovations after we move out, directly, so before a new tenant.

They said doing a full end clean makes no sense, so they want us to provide three quotes for companies to do an end clean after the renovations have taken place.

We have read around and know that in this case we are freed from the End clean and should just give the flat back brush clean in areas where the renovations aren't taking place.

We will have gone and they said they will negotiate the clean afterwards, we just need to pay.

Is this sounding ok? Or does anyone know where I can find the official statements on this, I just seem to keep finding people requiting what is "official" but not the actual "official" documents. We are ready to do what they said to avoid arguments but we want to cover our backs as well... thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 14.03.2014, 08:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,385
Groaned at 125 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 7,679 Times in 3,590 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Besenrein/Endreinigung ["Brush Clean" vs. Full End Clean]

Quote:
View Post
Ok, we have spoken with the landlords, any help here?

They are going to do massive renovations after we move out, directly, so before a new tenant.

They said doing a full end clean makes no sense, so they want us to provide three quotes for companies to do an end clean after the renovations have taken place.

We have read around and know that in this case we are freed from the End clean and should just give the flat back brush clean in areas where the renovations aren't taking place.

We will have gone and they said they will negotiate the clean afterwards, we just need to pay.

Is this sounding ok? Or does anyone know where I can find the official statements on this, I just seem to keep finding people requiting what is "official" but not the actual "official" documents. We are ready to do what they said to avoid arguments but we want to cover our backs as well... thanks.
I have been in this situation with clients. At least your landlord realized it makes no sense to clean first. There are some who will make you clean what will be torn out.

Often with renovations a cleaning is needed. It is NOT the same type of cleaning as an end cleaning. With the renovations you have mainly dust. New things are not dirty from use (no calc build up, no grease, etc)
So in fact, this type of cleaning may cost you less than a regular end cleaning.

But there may be things that are not being replaced such as windows, shutters.

So what you need to know is exactly what will be new, and what will not.
You should get the quote for the cleaning of what will stay. Then ask the landlord for information on what will be new. The company doing the renovations has most certainly experience with cleaning as this is also part of the renovation service. If you can get the renovation company to get quote for their part, that will give you the entire picture. It would surprise me if the landlord has not already arranged this.

What you want to do is work together with your landlord, making this as uncomplicated as possible for both parties. If you use one company for cleaning, that is the simplest solution. Since you will not be there for the end inspection of the cleaning, let the landlord select the company. Maybe they already work with one.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
moving company/end clean quotes [are these prices reasonable] ljk Housing in general 3 15.03.2014 15:08
Landlord charging me for end clean as states was not clean enough!! kamatz Housing in general 3 04.10.2013 18:48
To clean or not to clean... CharneRochford Housing in general 33 27.06.2013 23:00
Clean, cleaner and very clean? Ittigen Family matters/health 24 28.09.2010 11:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0