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-   -   Planning Permissions (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/204874-planning-permissions.html)

webdev 01.04.2014 09:28

Planning Permissions
 
Hey all,

I'm considering a three year rental agreement on a property but there is a peice of land apparently owned by an old farmer, it looks like he still lives there.

One concern I have is some one buying his property and building on it...

Is there any way to check if people are interested?

Also how does planning permission work here, just how quickly can someone get the right to build. For example if he died next week, how long before building could begin?

Is there a place where I can check if people are requesting planning permission in my area?

Cheers

SOBEIT 01.04.2014 09:32

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Chat to the farmer. From my experience the farmer near me was very forthcoming and honest with future intentions.

runningdeer 01.04.2014 09:36

Re: Planning Permissions
 
I would suggest you first check with the Gemeinde to see what is the zoning on it. If it is agricultural land, then it is more difficult if not impossible to build on it; on the other hand if it is already zoned as building land, then indeed buyer beware.

I would also get a feel for the local area, i.e. in some high growth areas where old persons and greedy inheritees see chfs, and they and their relatives control the local politics, the landscape could change very quickly.

Sean Connery 01.04.2014 09:50

Re: Planning Permissions
 
a) you can object and object and drag it out
b) don't bet on the local Bauamt not rezoning farmland as "Bauland".

I saw a farmer get very rich one afternoon 10 years ago as he sold six pieces of rezoned land for 250k each. How I laughed at him years later when the Bauland was worth thrice the amount (600/square metre -> 1800/square metre).

Talk to your local Bauamt. But this might require German if you want get the real info.

aSwissInTheUS 01.04.2014 10:00

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Before someone can build he has to visualise the project using what is called Baugespann.

http://www.google.ch/search?q=bauges...og&sa=N&tab=wi

If you see those in the plot next do you will know that planning approval is on the way. Now you have to act quick, you can guess the outher dimension of the new build from the Baugespann. For details you have to go to the building office (Bauamt) of your commune, where you can see the detailed plans. If there is no objection from anyone within just 20 days and the new building is seemingly according to the local Zoning and Building regulations it will get approval from the commune.

Sean Connery 01.04.2014 10:02

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 2124136)
Before someone can build he has to visualise the project using what is called Baugespann.

http://www.google.ch/search?q=bauges...og&sa=N&tab=wi

If you see those in the plot next do you will know that planning approval is on the way. Now you have to act quick, you can guess the outher dimension of the new build from the Baugespann. For details you have to go to the building office (Bauamt) of your commune, where you can see the detailed plans. If there is no objection from anyone within 30 days and the new building is seemingly according to the local Zoning and Building regulations it will get approval from the commune.

Indeed ^

Next to my apartment, there are some very old rotten poles from when this process was done using wood not aluminium. That tells you how long the objections can drag on for.

Objections would typically be on denial of light, proximity, increased traffic, etc.

22 yards 01.04.2014 10:07

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Connery (Post 2124141)
Objections would typically be on denial of light, proximity, increased traffic, etc.

None of which would carry any weight if coming from a tenant, not an owner.

OP, it's highly unlikely that any construction would commence in the three years of your proposed tenancy. It's all speculative, anyway, since the land is apparently currently Bauland and the farmer is apparently alive and living there.

aSwissInTheUS 01.04.2014 10:16

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 22 yards (Post 2124146)
None of which would carry any weight if coming from a tenant, not an owner.

First, if it is against local zoning and build regulations it will have weight regardless who objects. Additionaly, you do not have to be owner, renter in nearby property have the same rights.

http://www.hev-aargau.ch/fileadmin/u...cht_praxis.pdf

PS: As I see from this in Aargau the time limit for objections is just 20 days !!
As it is in Zurich http://www.baugesuche.zh.ch/internet...htsschutz.html

Horatio Gonzales 10.05.2016 11:01

Re: Planning Permissions
 
So the poles have been erected in a greenfield site down the road from my place.

The projected view of the proposed building does block my view of the mountainscape quite a bit (imo).

I have contacted the local Geminde (within LU) bauamt requesting details of the project plans & of the planning / objection process. The Bauamt replied as follows:

"Planned are 2 apartment buildings. For more information, need to contact the builder or architect in connection."

contact details of both were provided by the Bauamt in their response.

I was quite surprised by this. My expectation was that I would be linked to a project or given a project reg. no. to go and look up the plans on file in the planning office. I was also hoping to get some information on the planning process & the objecting process but nada. sent a follow up email just now - I'll post updates here later...

aSwissInTheUS 10.05.2016 11:23

Re: Planning Permissions
 
You have to go personally to the Bauamt. They have the plans.

All about the process and the relevant laws and regulation can be found at:
https://baurecht.lu.ch/

Horatio Gonzales 10.05.2016 11:41

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Thanks, I was searching at the geminde level.

Medea Fleecestealer 10.05.2016 11:49

Re: Planning Permissions
 
I would go to your gemeinde office and ask if they have the plans on site. I know I'm only living in a small village, but descriptions of all planning applications are posted on the noticeboard outside the admin building and they keep all the details of the applications on site. I enquired a couple of years ago for more info as there was a proposal to build some new apartments near us and they were able to make me a copy of the proposed building layout straightaway.

meloncollie 10.05.2016 13:08

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Whether one is seeking permission to build or one intends to try to block building, much depends on the community. And how connected each party is in the community.

So before you begin, try to find out who you are up against. Be aware that you could be triggering a village war, think about long term consequences.

(I know one person who blocked a proposed development that would have brought some much needed services to the community. Then a few years later he applied for citizenship...)

But village idiosyncracies aside, as others have said, the Bauamt is your first stop. Once you find out what the plans entail, also think about whether a compromise to the plans could meet both your wishes and the needs of the owner. If a compromise could avoid lasting unpleasantness that is often the best way forward.

Horatio Gonzales 10.05.2016 13:09

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Thanks Medea & aSwissintheUS.

Has anyone on here lodged an objection to a planned development - I'd be interested to hear about experiences +ve or -ve with the Bauamt & also within the community.

An Expat Wife 10.05.2016 13:38

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 22 yards (Post 2124146)
None of which would carry any weight if coming from a tenant, not an owner.

OP, it's highly unlikely that any construction would commence in the three years of your proposed tenancy. It's all speculative, anyway, since the land is apparently currently Bauland and the farmer is apparently alive and living there.

We applied for planning permission for our house 20 months ago and moved in last week..... planning permission was a fairly quick process as we knew all the local restrictions when we were drawing the house plans with the architect.....

fatmanfilms 10.05.2016 13:41

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Gonzales (Post 2586161)
Thanks Medea & aSwissintheUS.



Has anyone on here lodged an objection to a planned development - I'd be interested to hear about experiences +ve or -ve with the Bauamt & also within the community.



In most cases your opinion does not matter, bau land can be built on up to its designated density following the local building restrictions.

Buy the land yourself if you don't want it to be built on

Horatio Gonzales 10.05.2016 13:44

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2586188)
In most cases your opinion does not matter, bau land can be built on up to its designated density following the local building restrictions.

Buy the land yourself if you don't want it to be built on

It is indeed zoned as bauland a quick check of the fantastically detailed local authority maps gave me that in a jiffy.

Horatio Gonzales 12.05.2016 08:04

Re: Planning Permissions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by meloncollie (Post 2586160)
Whether one is seeking permission to build or one intends to try to block building, much depends on the community. And how connected each party is in the community.

So before you begin, try to find out who you are up against. Be aware that you could be triggering a village war, think about long term consequences.

(I know one person who blocked a proposed development that would have brought some much needed services to the community. Then a few years later he applied for citizenship...)

But village idiosyncracies aside, as others have said, the Bauamt is your first stop. Once you find out what the plans entail, also think about whether a compromise to the plans could meet both your wishes and the needs of the owner. If a compromise could avoid lasting unpleasantness that is often the best way forward.

That's excellent advice thank you. We have a long term view so that's fitting advice for us.

As it happens the Bauamt gave replied to explain that the construction has already been authorised & no objections were registered.
Thanks all for your input.
H.

MotorsportsNorton 12.05.2016 09:00

Re: Planning Permissions
 
From experience it depends who wants to profit from the development, along with some of the older locals we objected to the density of a development and with the aid of a good planning lawyer raised nine points where the existing local and canton rules were being broken, result, concessions on all points for the builder.


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