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Old 30.04.2014, 20:51
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Problem with the real estate company from my old house

Hi all

Something quite weird has happened regarding to my old house that I moved out two years ago! I've been contacted by the real estate agency that I must pay the sum of last three months rent! I was sharing this flat with somebody that after I left he took responsibilities for the flat. Now, this person has abandoned the flat and gone to his country and apparently stopped paying the rents (not sure if it's three months or more). Since the company can't find him, they've contacted me after such a long time that I'm responsible for the missing rent because my name is still on the contract!!!
Before moving out, our secretary contacted the agency to inform them that I'm leaving this house, and they recommended us that just to be sure I send them an email mentioning that I'm moving out. The company now refuses that they've received any email or phone call from me, but it's of course a disgraceful dishonesty because I have a delivery report for this email, and our secretary as witness that she told them I'm leaving.
They gave me two options: either pay the total rent of three months within the next 30 days (otherwise they'll sue me), or sign a form that they can get the money from our insurance. Instead of the three months deposit, we had an insurance. To me the whole thing stink it's just a fraud. First of all, I'm very much disappointed as I'd never expected such great charlatanism in Switzerland. It's the agency's mistake for not changing the rent contract and it's my ex-flatmate's stupidity to leave this house without any notice.
Now they are threatening me that they'll sue me if I don't sign the insurance form, but it's just not right. I don't want to be involved in their dirty business, and afraid for unpredictable future consequences.
I thought I can ask here maybe somebody has any solution for it. I just don't know what should I do, has anyone ever had such problems? I'd really really appreciate any advice.
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Old 30.04.2014, 20:57
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

What kind of contract did you have and sign with your former flatmate?

If you co-signed a lease, then you committed to joint liability. That is: if the other person doesn't pay, you have to. Simply sending an e-mail to the landlord informing them that you'll move out was likely insufficient at any rate as the contract should have been ended and signed by all parties, i.e. yourself, your flatmate (if he was on the lease at all) and the landlord - hence no, it's not (only) the landlord's mistake that they never changed the contract.

It's even worse (for you) if you were the only one who signed the lease and the other person never did as in that case, you're fully liable anyway.

At any rate, if your name's on the contract, you'll have to pay...
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:00
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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Hi all

Something quite weird has happened regarding to my old house that I moved out two years ago! I've been contacted by the real estate agency that I must pay the sum of last three months rent! I was sharing this flat with somebody that after I left he took responsibilities for the flat. Now, this person has abandoned the flat and gone to his country and apparently stopped paying the rents (not sure if it's three months or more). Since the company can't find him, they've contacted me after such a long time that I'm responsible for the missing rent because my name is still on the contract!!!
Before moving out, our secretary contacted the agency to inform them that I'm leaving this house, and they recommended us that just to be sure I send them an email mentioning that I'm moving out. The company now refuses that they've received any email or phone call from me, but it's of course a disgraceful dishonesty because I have a delivery report for this email, and our secretary as witness that she told them I'm leaving.
They gave me two options: either pay the total rent of three months within the next 30 days (otherwise they'll sue me), or sign a form that they can get the money from our insurance. Instead of the three months deposit, we had an insurance. To me the whole thing stink it's just a fraud. First of all, I'm very much disappointed as I'd never expected such great charlatanism in Switzerland. It's the agency's mistake for not changing the rent contract and it's my ex-flatmate's stupidity to leave this house without any notice.
Now they are threatening me that they'll sue me if I don't sign the insurance form, but it's just not right. I don't want to be involved in their dirty business, and afraid for unpredictable future consequences.
I thought I can ask here maybe somebody has any solution for it. I just don't know what should I do, has anyone ever had such problems? I'd really really appreciate any advice.
It was your mistake to not ensure that the contract was properly modified by the agency, releasing you from liability, as well as signed by you, your roommate, and your landlord upon your departure from the house.

Not to mention that any official correspondence should take place by registered mail, not an email sent by your assistant.

Unless there are relevant details to this story that you are leaving out, I think you are going to have to pay up and chalk this one up to experience.
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:03
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

it was a co-signed contract, but the question is why the company didn't terminat that contract. Plus it is what them who asked me to send an email, they said sending an email is sufficient!
They say there's no such email in our sever, but I did my research and our logs show that they for sure got the email. I find it very shameful!
Question is if I authorize them to get the deposit money from the insurance, the insurance would simply accept it? Or I must wait for further consequences?
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:04
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

I'm not sure there is anything you can do apart from pay the bill.

Never rely on emails, always communicate with registered letters and always make sure you've got a contract in place with your sub-tenant, signed by both parties.

You could contact the renters' association but I'm not sure what they would be able to do.
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:10
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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it was a co-signed contract, but the question is why the company didn't terminat that contract. Plus it is what them who asked me to send an email, they said sending an email is sufficient!
They say there's no such email in our sever, but I did my research and our logs show that they for sure got the email. I find it very shameful!
Question is if I authorize them to get the deposit money from the insurance, the insurance would simply accept it? Or I must wait for further consequences?
Because you should have terminated the contract and your flatmate should have co-signed. It's not the agency's job to do that as it's you who wanted to move out.

And about them saying that an e-mail is sufficient - I don't doubt they said that, but you have absolutely no way to prove this. Also, where is your e-mail copy? Generally, by law, terminating a lease agreement via e-mail doesn't have to be accepted. It usually requires registered mail. Admittedly, if no problems had arisen, the landlord or agency probably wouldn't have minded - but now that there's a problem, they turn it around and unfortunately for you, they have the upper hand.

I know this is unfortunate, I had a similar situation with a flatmate some 15 years ago, though it was not an outstanding lease, but damages she did to the apartment after I had already moved out. I had no chance but to pay up (we had co-signed the lease).

I'm not sure which insurance is supposed to pay for this?
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:16
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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Because you should have terminated the contract and your flatmate should have co-signed. It's not the agency's job to do that as it's you who wanted to move out.

And about them saying that an e-mail is sufficient - I don't doubt they said that, but you have absolutely no way to prove this so it's word against word and frankly, they will win on this one. Also, where is your e-mail copy? Generally, by law, terminating a lease agreement via e-mail doesn't have to be accepted. It usually requires registered mail.

I know this is unfortunate, I had a similar situation with a flatmate some 15 years ago, though it was not an outstanding lease, but damages she did to the apartment after I had already moved out. I had no chance but to pay up (we had co-signed the lease).

I'm not sure which insurance is supposed to pay for this?
Well I have still this email, and again it was the first time I was terminating a contract here in switzerland. Therefore, I asked the agency and they demanded me to send this email. If they'd asked me to send a registered letter, I'd have done it for sure!
We had SwissCaution instead of the deposit. Checking their website, it's written:
"If your lessor, after your move, has claims against you, and with your authorization, SwissCaution will pay the required amount to your lessor up to the maximum amount specified on your rental guarantee certificate."

What's interesting that the agency has contacted me after such long time that my ex-flatmate stopped paying his rents. However they only asked for three months rent, I'm sure it's much more!
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:20
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

Yeah but ignorance is no excuse, I'm afraid. I understand your frustration and I would be massively POed as well, but that doesn't change the fact that you made a mistake (as well). And on whether they allowed you to terminate the contract via e-mail - that is their word against yours.

Let me look into that SwissCaution thing, never heard of it.

The reason they ask for three months is probably because that's the standard notice period. It's not clear from your post as to when your former flatmate stopped paying rent and chances are they spent some time chasing after him to pay up, apparently with no success.

Btw - are you still in touch with him?
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:25
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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Well I have still this email, and again it was the first time I was terminating a contract here in switzerland. Therefore, I asked the agency and they demanded me to send this email. If they'd asked me to send a registered letter, I'd have done it for sure!
We had SwissCaution instead of the deposit. Checking their website, it's written:
"If your lessor, after your move, has claims against you, and with your authorization, SwissCaution will pay the required amount to your lessor up to the maximum amount specified on your rental guarantee certificate."

What's interesting that the agency has contacted me after such long time that my ex-flatmate stopped paying his rents. However they only asked for three months rent, I'm sure it's much more!
It is simply common sense that any termination or restructuring of a housing contract involves more than just sending an email.

Did you follow up after your initial email to the agency in order to ask what happens next in the process?
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:26
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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Yeah but ignorance is no excuse, I'm afraid. I understand your frustration and I would be massively POed as well, but that doesn't change that you made a mistake as well.

Let me look into that SwissCaution thing, never heard of it.

The reason they ask for three months is because that's the standard notice period. Also, it's not clear from your post as to when your former flatmate stopped paying rent and chances are they spent some time chasing after him to pay up, apparently with no success.

Btw - are you still in touch with him?
Have only his email and his swiss phone that is off now, and he doesn't reply back my emails. Surprisingly the agency has contacted me first asking for any contact information from my ex-flatmate. And once they realized it's impossible to catch him they've turned to me and mentioning that btw we didn't know you moved out from that house. When I said about the email and the whole story, they said no such email we got but it's a huge lie.
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:33
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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It is simply common sense that any termination or restructuring of a housing contract involves more than just sending an email.

Did you follow up after your initial email to the agency in order to ask what happens next in the process?
As I said above since I didn't have experience with terminating contracts I asked the agency myself and also our swiss secretary for their guidance. Maybe you have such great talent, which in this case very good for you, but I can't merely use my common sense to figure out what are the laws and rules, therefore I trusted the agency and honestly asked them for advice to show me the right procedure
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:37
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

I do see that they're taking the easy way out too, but still, they really do got the upper hand in this one…

I looked into SwissCaution. So from what I understand this is like a regular deposit, but instead of being paid into a separate bank account (which is usually done), it's paid to this company and they handle it as sort of an "intermediary". I hope my understanding is correct.

Now, the deposit is indeed used for a) outstanding rent or b) damages at the apartment (that is any kind of damage, even a little dent in the floor or so). So yes, I would say - but please have this confirmed - that you can use the deposit for this outstanding rent. HOWEVER, there might be damages to the apartment, big or small, that you would then need to pay for separately unless there's enough money for both in the deposit (which I don't assume as I'm guessing the deposit wasn't more than three months rent). So be prepared that some extra cost may still accrue...
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:37
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

The agency said that since one of us, my roomate, is still staying there, there's no need for termination of the contract. He can just give them the information about any new tenant and they'll replace the new guy's name in the contract instead of me. It turned out that he never got a new roomate and the company also has forgotten it
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:37
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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Have only his email and his swiss phone that is off now, and he doesn't reply back my emails. Surprisingly the agency has contacted me first asking for any contact information from my ex-flatmate. And once they realized it's impossible to catch him they've turned to me and mentioning that btw we didn't know you moved out from that house. When I said about the email and the whole story, they said no such email we got but it's a huge lie.
One possible but very slim chance would be to print off your copy of the email with their email address showing as the recipient and which shows the date stamp on it (as it would appear in your "sent items" folder) and send it to them via registered mail.

It's the only shred of "paperwork" you've got for this mess, and they would be under no obligation to acknowledge it but you could give it a try.

Send a covering letter explaining that you were instructed by XYZ person to send an email to terminate the contract and ask them why they did this if they don't accept it.
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:40
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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One possible but very slim chance would be to print off your copy of the email with their email address showing as the recipient and which shows the date stamp on it (as it would appear in your "sent items" folder) and send it to them via registered mail.

It's the only shred of "paperwork" you've got for this mess, and they would be under no obligation to acknowledge it but you could give it a try.

Send a covering letter explaining that you were instructed by XYZ person to send an email to terminate the contract and ask them why they did this if they don't accept it.
Yes, it's certainly worth a try, but I agree that chances they'll accept this are very very slim.
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:42
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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I do see that they're taking the easy way out too, but still, they really do got the upper hand in this one…

I looked into SwissCaution. So from what I understand this is like a regular deposit, but instead of being paid into a separate bank account (which is usually done), it's paid to this company and they handle it as sort of an "intermediary". I hope my understanding is correct.

Now, the deposit is indeed used for a) outstanding rent or b) damages at the apartment (that is any kind of damage, even a little dent in the floor or so). So yes, I would say - but please have this confirmed - that you can use the deposit for this outstanding rent. HOWEVER, there might be damages to the apartment, big or small, that you would then need to pay for separately unless there's enough money for both in the deposit (which I don't assume as I'm guessing the deposit wasn't more than three months rent). So be prepared that some extra cost may still accrue...
Thanks a lot, I hope you understand how annoying the whole thing is.
You're right and for the same reason I asked the company to give me a confirmation that I only authorize them for the outstanding three months rent and nothing more such as damage or so. They gave a letter that once they've received the money there will be no additional requests.
So do you think that they can get the money from the insurance? Is it really that easy?
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:48
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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One possible but very slim chance would be to print off your copy of the email with their email address showing as the recipient and which shows the date stamp on it (as it would appear in your "sent items" folder) and send it to them via registered mail.

It's the only shred of "paperwork" you've got for this mess, and they would be under no obligation to acknowledge it but you could give it a try.

Send a covering letter explaining that you were instructed by XYZ person to send an email to terminate the contract and ask them why they did this if they don't accept it.
I called them myself and told them about the email and so on, also had my secretary talk to them in swiss german but they're not accepting it. As a matter of fact they know that I'm not living in this flat and since the current tenant is somewhere in italy they've chosen the easy option by threatening me for the money.
I asked some friends and they suggested me to go to "Staatliche Schlichtungsstelle für Mietstreitigkeiten", have you heard of it?
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:54
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

That is what insurance is for. just be happy it's not your actual cash deposit.
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Old 30.04.2014, 21:55
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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I called them myself and told them about the email and so on, also had my secretary talk to them in swiss german but they're not accepting it. As a matter of fact they know that I'm not living in this flat and since the current tenant is somewhere in italy they've chosen the easy option by threatening me for the money.
I asked some friends and they suggested me to go to "Staatliche Schlichtungsstelle für Mietstreitigkeiten", have you heard of it?
Are they not accepting that you sent the email (in which case I still suggest you send a printed copy along) or are they simply not accepting that an email is sufficient to terminate the contract?

I agree with other posters that you made a fundamental mistake but it's a mistake that anyone can make in a new country, renting a new place for the first time.

Newbie mistake or not, the law is on the side of the rental agency so the only hope you have got is to rely on their goodwill.

You could try with either the renters' association or the Schlichtungsstelle but they will only interpret the law. There is not much provision in the law for inexperience and/or ignorance, unfortunately.
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Old 30.04.2014, 22:11
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Re: Problem with the real estate company from my old house

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Thanks a lot, I hope you understand how annoying the whole thing is.
You're right and for the same reason I asked the company to give me a confirmation that I only authorize them for the outstanding three months rent and nothing more such as damage or so. They gave a letter that once they've received the money there will be no additional requests.
So do you think that they can get the money from the insurance? Is it really that easy?
Of course I do, I can relate and absolutely understand how annoyed you are.

And this sounds like a fair deal. I wonder if they've seen the house already, who knows what that former roommate did to it… (I'm saying this as we once had an employee at our company who completely destroyed the kitchen stove in his temporary apartment, which cost some 4000.- to replace… The things you hear and see )

About the insurance - yes, it should be pretty straightforward - I can only speak from how it works with the deposit on a bank account, but I understand SwissCaution is essentially the same. What they usually do is send you some form on which you confirm that the deposit can be used for damage - or in this case, outstanding rent. If there's a remainder of the deposit, it'll be paid out on your bank account (which you usually also have to indicate on the form).

However, please, by all means, do not speak with the agency on the phone anymore or if you do, send an e-mail afterwards to confirm everything you discussed and then ask them to confirm both receipt and content of it. And print out a copy of every single e-mail. It'll save you trouble.

I agree with Sandgrounder that the Schlichtungsstelle will probably not be able to do much. However, why don't you give them a call anyway or ask your secretary to do so if they don't speak sufficient English - even if it doesn't help, it can do no harm either.

And if I were you, I would probably also hunt down that former roommate of yours!

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