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  #141  
Old 18.02.2015, 00:13
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Re: Urgent advice needed for early termination of apartment lease

samb23


EDIT: glowjupiter has asked a good question! My post here was written assuming that the new person is a replacement tenant, who will take over the flat completely, so that you are no longer involved. If the new tenant is a sub-tenant, other requirements apply.

Hey, that's good news!

Please, please, get the whole thing in writing.

There have been others who - because they were under time pressure - have handed the keys over to the new tenant, thinking everything was fine. It will not do just to let the new tenant to move in. This can end up in a lot of trouble, if ever the new tenant does something wrong.

Please, make sure that
a) you get a signed document from your landlord stating that he/she is releasing you from your further obligations to him/her as a tenant, as of DATE
b) you clean the place well
c) someone from the landlord/property Company inspects the property together with you and signs that it is in order (or that you and he/she agree on the amount you owe for any damages you may have caused)
d) you and the representative of the landlord agree on how the deposit will be refunded to you (less any costs as in c) above),
e) you hand the keys back to the landlord/property Company (and definitely not to the new tenant).

I hope it all works out well, and can be rounded off with all the paperwork in order. Anything less is likely to come back and bite you, one way or another.

Last edited by doropfiz; 18.02.2015 at 00:16. Reason: to take glowjupiter's good question into account
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  #142  
Old 18.02.2015, 00:38
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Re: Changing cantons - can I terminate my lease early?

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I am sure I'll get the job
...
I guess this is more assuring than an Internship though I still don't know the difference.

Yes, vribium, that seems to be the key thing: that, as you say, you still don't know the difference.


I'd recommend you ask your new employer to tell you the difference very clearly.


For example, ask him/her to explain the difference in areas such as: responsibilities, reporting to which boss, written employment contract such as number of hours per week and duration of the contract, whether it is a permanent (= ongoing, continuous) contract or one of limited duration (= fixed to a specific period), whether the work is restricted to a specific project.


It seems to me it would make sense to find this kind of thing out, before making big changes of where you live.
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  #143  
Old 18.02.2015, 01:32
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Is he a replacement tenant or a subtenant?
He's a replacement tenant. I made sure everything was clear, hence I made him call the property company in front of me.

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samb23


EDIT: glowjupiter has asked a good question! My post here was written assuming that the new person is a replacement tenant, who will take over the flat completely, so that you are no longer involved. If the new tenant is a sub-tenant, other requirements apply.

Hey, that's good news!

Please, please, get the whole thing in writing.

There have been others who - because they were under time pressure - have handed the keys over to the new tenant, thinking everything was fine. It will not do just to let the new tenant to move in. This can end up in a lot of trouble, if ever the new tenant does something wrong.

Please, make sure that
a) you get a signed document from your landlord stating that he/she is releasing you from your further obligations to him/her as a tenant, as of DATE
b) you clean the place well
c) someone from the landlord/property Company inspects the property together with you and signs that it is in order (or that you and he/she agree on the amount you owe for any damages you may have caused)
d) you and the representative of the landlord agree on how the deposit will be refunded to you (less any costs as in c) above),
e) you hand the keys back to the landlord/property Company (and definitely not to the new tenant).

I hope it all works out well, and can be rounded off with all the paperwork in order. Anything less is likely to come back and bite you, one way or another.
Thanks for the reply! It is a replacement tenant whom I made sure called the property company in front of me. The representative at the company told me that she just needs to verify all his documents and he can move in earliest 10 days from now. Since I don't have much time here in Switzerland, I went earlier this week to the property company's office to drop off all remaining keys except the one which I have right now (I'll do that the day I leave).

This way I not only save CHF 500 (this is the cost they would ask me for so they could put ads, etc) but I hope to get my full or most of my deposit back. I did a pretty good job at cleaning, however my building itself is only two months old and I maintained it nonetheless so I'm not too concerned except for some dust here and there. Lastly, since I'm not here for the handover, I made sure the property company settles that with the management company themselves and she agreed. I've been told after everything goes well with the inspection and the replacement tenant is approved, then they'll ask for my account number so they can deposit the funds back. Let's see - I hope the new tenant gets approved!

Last edited by 3Wishes; 05.03.2015 at 00:07. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #144  
Old 19.02.2015, 10:29
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Re: Changing cantons - can I terminate my lease early?

As doropfiz said.

Additionally, you don't know with certainty if you can keep the job, provided it's continuous in the first place - sometimes things beyond your control happen, that's life. Also, it would make sense to build some reserves before you undertake big changes as moving and buying furniture is far from free. Life can be expensive around here, especially in Geneva.

If the job is intended to be continuous:
Commute for three months, this is the typical testing period. If all goes well there's more than enough time afterwards.

And DO NOT cancel your current lease before you have a new one lest you may end up sleeping on the street.
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  #145  
Old 20.02.2015, 12:47
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Re: Advise on opting out of rental lease

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We moved here 18 months ago and very foolishly (following the advise of our relocation consultant which now annoys me) we rented a house which costs us a lot every month. Its a beautiful house but each month its leaving us too tight financially, we need to really move out soon.

We have 7 months left and must give 6 months notice which I have already done. We would happily move to an apartment and pay less. However its been going on a while as we could only hand in our notice now as per the agreed contract our relocation consultant managed. Basically after talking to friends we were taking for a ride! As you know financial pressure can cause a lot of stress.

Anyhow what's the worst that can happen if we leave early and move to an apartment. Do we just loose our deposit ? Its cheaper to loose the deposit than stay!

Also we could try find a replacement tenant which I think is doubtful in this current rental climate. Where would you advertise?

Thank you for the advise

A very frustrated and stresssed tenant

Few points:

- Dont be stressed
- Your doubts about not being possible to find a new tenant is wrong. Did you even try looking for one?
- You can't exit the contract earlier than the notice period unless you could find a new tenant who is willing to take over under the same conditions or that the landlord release you from the contract for other reasons.
- Yes, the landlord can reject a tenant you bring BUT s/he has to have valid reasons, otherwise if you could get only ONE tenant who is financially capable of paying the rent (i.e it doesn't exceed 30% of his earnings) and have no bad credit record, then you have fulfilled your legal requirement and should be liberated from the lease EVEN if the landlord rejects the new tenant, unless s/he has very very valid reasons for the rejection and in this case they should inform you.
- Start making extensive advertisement every where. Here on EF, any local newspapers in your locality, some people hang them in bus stations (if you do so, please make sure you take it off few days latter). All what you need is ONE tenant

Best of luck
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  #146  
Old 27.02.2015, 02:52
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Re: Urgent advice needed for early termination of apartment lease

samb23,
Could you please let us know how it worked out in the end?
I'm really interested in knowing:

1. Did the substitute tenant you found take over the rental contract?

2. Did your landlord release you from your rental contract? And do you have this in writing?

3. Did your landlord accept the flat as being in a clean enough state, with no damages? And did you then get your deposit back in full?

I hope things worked out well for all concerned, and that it is all completed with all the paperwork in place, and that everyone's done the full, right thing, and that you are now free, with a letter to say so.
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  #147  
Old 27.02.2015, 11:19
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Re: Urgent advice needed for early termination of apartment lease

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It is possible to cancel a lease contract with three months notice period if its continuation can be view as "unzumutbar". If I were you I would contact Mieterverband and ask them advice on whether or not your situation would likely qualify as unzumutbar. OR 266g

http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/220/a266g.html
I believe you have to go to court for this and get a judge to rule on it.
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  #148  
Old 02.03.2015, 19:51
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Re: Urgent advice needed for early termination of apartment lease

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samb23,
Could you please let us know how it worked out in the end?
I'm really interested in knowing:

1. Did the substitute tenant you found take over the rental contract?

2. Did your landlord release you from your rental contract? And do you have this in writing?

3. Did your landlord accept the flat as being in a clean enough state, with no damages? And did you then get your deposit back in full?

I hope things worked out well for all concerned, and that it is all completed with all the paperwork in place, and that everyone's done the full, right thing, and that you are now free, with a letter to say so.
Sorry I couldn't get back earlier - was settling back in Canada. Onto the questions!

1. Yes, the substitute tenant I found luckily took over my rental contract and we were able to negotiate everything through telephone and email correspondence.

2. I notified the landlord about the new sub-tenant and they were OK with it, however they did mention that the apartment will be under my name and it will be my responsibility to have the rent paid on time, etc. This isn't a big deal as I made a contract myself (plus a secondary one I found online) and made sure all the details were outlined, signed, and dated by both parties (me and the new tenant).

3. Although the apartment was professionally cleaned, the landlord company didn't do any inspection as the date from which I moved to the date the new sub-tenant moved in was 8-10 days. Further, the landlord company didn't mention that they wanted to do an inspection, but told me that once the contract ends then they will do a formal inspection.

Regarding the deposit, since the apartment is still under my name, I won't be getting it back until the rental contract is completed, however the sub-tenant was nice enough to give me a security deposit so it evens out

All in all, everything was fortunately completed. Although it was a pretty last minute rush, etc. it was important for me to leave on good terms without any debt, so that if one day I decide to move back I'll be stress and worry free.
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  #149  
Old 02.03.2015, 20:15
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Re: Urgent advice needed for early termination of apartment lease

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Thanks for the reply! It is a replacement tenant whom I made sure called the property company in front of me. The representative at the company told me that she just needs to verify all his documents and he can move in earliest 10 days from now. Since I don't have much time here in Switzerland, I went earlier this week to the property company's office to drop off all remaining keys except the one which I have right now (I'll do that the day I leave).

This way I not only save CHF 500 (this is the cost they would ask me for so they could put ads, etc) but I hope to get my full or most of my deposit back. I did a pretty good job at cleaning, however my building itself is only two months old and I maintained it nonetheless so I'm not too concerned except for some dust here and there. Lastly, since I'm not here for the handover, I made sure the property company settles that with the management company themselves and she agreed. I've been told after everything goes well with the inspection and the replacement tenant is approved, then they'll ask for my account number so they can deposit the funds back. Let's see - I hope the new tenant gets approved!
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Sorry I couldn't get back earlier - was settling back in Canada. Onto the questions!

1. Yes, the substitute tenant I found luckily took over my rental contract and we were able to negotiate everything through telephone and email correspondence.

2. I notified the landlord about the new sub-tenant and they were OK with it, however they did mention that the apartment will be under my name and it will be my responsibility to have the rent paid on time, etc. This isn't a big deal as I made a contract myself (plus a secondary one I found online) and made sure all the details were outlined, signed, and dated by both parties (me and the new tenant).

3. Although the apartment was professionally cleaned, the landlord company didn't do any inspection as the date from which I moved to the date the new sub-tenant moved in was 8-10 days. Further, the landlord company didn't mention that they wanted to do an inspection, but told me that once the contract ends then they will do a formal inspection.

Regarding the deposit, since the apartment is still under my name, I won't be getting it back until the rental contract is completed, however the sub-tenant was nice enough to give me a security deposit so it evens out
You can't be serious
Nachmieter (replacement tenant) do take over all of the current tenant's responsibilities. This definitely includes paying the rent on time and that the apartment is in the new tenant's name and NOT in yours. From the starting moment of the replacement tenant's contract, you're released from legal responsibility towards the landlord.

Untermieter (subtenants) are not responsible to pay the rent to the landlord on time. The apartment is in the tenant's name in this case. One of the main reasons why people are wary of taking in subtenants is because landlords can and do often say "Tenant, if you can't get your subtenant to pay the rent on time, that's not our problem." Meaning if you have an apartment for say CHF 1000 and sublet a room for CHF 300, you will have to shell out CHF 1000 monthly if the subtenant doesn't pay his CHF 300 to you every month and you won't be living in the apartment for CHF 700.

Sorry, but your situation sounds like you think you have a replacement tenant when in fact you have a subtenant. Meaning that you have legal responsibilities for an apartment even when out of the country. Are you sure you want that?
In your case, I would definitely contact Asloca and the renter's arbitration office straight away and show them the agreement the landlord has with you. Ask them if they qualify the relationship between new tenant and landlord as a regular rental contract between the landlord and the new tenant without any legal responsibilities pertaining to you, or if they think it's a sublease with you acting as the tenant.

You'll really want to get this straightened out. Good luck in doing so from outside of CH

Quote:
All in all, everything was fortunately completed. Although it was a pretty last minute rush, etc. it was important for me to leave on good terms without any debt, so that if one day I decide to move back I'll be stress and worry free.
Sorry to say that things are far from completed for you and that I very much doubt that you'll be stress and worry free

Last edited by glowjupiter; 02.03.2015 at 21:16. Reason: clarification
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  #150  
Old 14.07.2015, 21:29
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Breaking a lease + the options ahead?

American family living in Pully, CH for the past two years needing to move quickly home due to family illness is now struggling with the rules and regulations.

Not moving with a company so trying to understand the best and most cost efficient way to break a lease.

2 dates listed in the lease, October and March with a 4 month advance notice required. So reality is we couldn't give notice for October and cant afford to pay until next march as we are trying to move in Sept.

Can anyone offer advice as to how to solve other than desperately find someone to take over our rent? Do the landlords negotiate? Are there agencies or companies that one can pay to help find a tenant?

Thanks in advance!!!
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  #151  
Old 14.07.2015, 21:48
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Re: Breaking a lease + the options ahead?

I am not sure on specifics for your location, but in many places you can "break" your lease if you find someone else to take it over. In the German part that's called a Nachmieter. Sorry, I don't know the French word.

Some landlords are understanding and they let you just pay for the advertising costs plus whatever rent is owed until the new tenant takes over. Others make you do the advertising yourself and make the entire experience a nightmare.

These are the two most recent threads about breaking a lease early.

http://www.englishforum.ch/housing-g...ent-lease.html

http://www.englishforum.ch/daily-lif...ase-early.html

You might also consider joining the tenant's association (Asloca, I think it is called in the French-speaking part) and they can help you with the process, particularly when it comes to the handover.

Good luck!
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  #152  
Old 14.07.2015, 23:10
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Re: Breaking a lease + the options ahead?

Do you have a good relationship with your landlord? You might find that he or she could have some sympathy for your sad situation and give you some leeway. We are moving at a date outside of those given and agreed to in our contract, because we explained to our landlord that we needed some extra time due to our family circumstances (and described them to him) and he has been very understanding and accommodating. We found a date that was agreeable to both parties.


I hope that helps and that you find a good solution.


Hobs
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Old 14.07.2015, 23:38
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Re: Breaking a lease + the options ahead?

You can leave on short notice as long as you find a replacement tenant. If your rent is reasonable then this will probably be fairly easy. Let your gérance know that you will be leaving, organise a couple of open houses and tell people to send their dossier to the gérance. If your rent is really high it might be a bit harder, but not impossible given the current rental climate.

If your rent is reasonable, then there is even a good chance that your landlord will let you out of your lease in order to increase the rent for the next tenants. If they leave it up to you to find a new tenant then they have to leave the rent as is. This is what happened to us when we left our last apartment.

Good luck!
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  #154  
Old 15.07.2015, 01:19
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Re: Breaking a lease + the options ahead?

Find someone to take it over, otherwise no chance.

Tom
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  #155  
Old 13.06.2016, 12:47
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Moving out on a short notice - questions about the process

It just happened that we got awarded a flat that we need to take from 1. July (in 2 weeks). So the challenge is how to organize the swap to the next tenant in 2.5 weeks. Our next official moving out date is the 30th September officially, but she said something about an early termination onto the 1st July over the phone.

I already have potential candidates to take over our current flat, but I never did this before, so apologies for the n00b questions.

- the current agency tells me I can't cancel the contract for the end of this month, only on the end of July (is there anything official on this?), which sounds a bit strange, why do they need 6 weeks notice if I can give them another tenant right off the bat (who would be really willing to move in)?

- if a "nachmieter" moves in with taking over a lot of (mounted) furniture, do I still need to vacant the property and organize a handover? What happens with the (small) damages we caused during the last 4 years?

- If that is so, how could I avoid paying double rent for the month of July/Aug/Sept? Can I sub-lease the property for the new potential tenants until the official moving-out date?

- Can the agency deny a sub-lease agreement if the new tenants would be willing to move in from the 1st July (and able to pay the rent)?

- bonus question: I never really bothered to get a deduction in the last 4 years as the reference rate went down. Can I save some pennies for the next tenant by cancelling officially onto the end of September and having them on a sub-lease until then, and also getting the deduction in rental prices.... or would that be very cheeky?
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  #156  
Old 13.06.2016, 13:38
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Re: Moving out on a short notice - questions about the process

Hi user137, I can't answer all the questions above but I can share what I've learned so far.

I'm going through a similar situation as we've been awarded an apartment starting 1st of August. However, according to the contract we have now, we cannot cancel our current contract until end of September 2016.

Until now we have noone to take over so we will have to pay double rent for 2 months if this does not change.

Talking with the Agency they said that there are two distinct things to consider:

1. Notice of leave
For this one the law mandates minimum 30 days. We gave our notice exactly at the beginning of the month and I don't know if the 30 days start from the moment when you gave the notice or it has to be at the beginning of the month.

2. Contract termination
The termination of the contract is what is mentioned in your contract. For us we can only terminate the contract with a 90 days notice and only in the months of March, June, September.

Now it depends on the Agency as well. This is our third one and until now if we had someone to take over they were ok with having the new tenant take over even earlier than the 30 days as long as the apartment is in good shape.

I hope it helps and thank you for opening the thread as it will definitely help us as well. Good luck with the change.
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  #157  
Old 13.06.2016, 14:33
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Re: Moving out on a short notice - questions about the process

I've heard about the 30 days (also stated on admin.ch), but I think the agency could actually ease off this requirement if we provide a new tenant, so they are not losing a penny in the process.
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  #158  
Old 18.06.2016, 19:59
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Re: Moving out on a short notice - questions about the process

guys, the agency told me I need to let the interested parties apply directly to the agency.

does that mean I can not recommend a tenant? even if one would take all our furniture for example?
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  #159  
Old 18.06.2016, 20:12
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Re: Moving out on a short notice - questions about the process

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guys, the agency told me I need to let the interested parties apply directly to the agency.

does that mean I can not recommend a tenant? even if one would take all our furniture for example?
A way to do this would be to collect the completed forms from all the potentially interested tenants, then only forward the ones that say they will take over your furniture. You could even get them to sign a letter stating they will take over the furniture if they are awarded the apartment. I've seen this done more than once.
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Old 18.06.2016, 20:18
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Re: Moving out on a short notice - questions about the process

I wouldn't. I would get the interested parties, who also wish to have your furniture, to sign a letter you have written stating the date they wish to take over the apartment, their name/ contact details, the agreed rent amount and deposit amount. Make sure you sign date this letter too, make copies and post to the agency via registered post. Make sure you send the agency this info/signed letter from at least 3 interested parties. This is then your proof you have supplied the agency with interested tenants and therefore off the hook.

This is exactly what I have done quite a number of times in the past.

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