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Old 06.10.2014, 10:03
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Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

Hi,

Does anyone know where I can find out what date Electric heating will be fully banned in Canton de Vaud ? For Fribourg, looks like 2025, http://www.loi-energie.ch/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84&It emid=494&lang=fr,

But I can't find it for Vaud, where I had heard it was 2030. The date difference is important for me here.

Thanks

Mike
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Old 06.10.2014, 10:11
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

If you are owner and renting:
-Having electrical heaters is bad for resale value. There are some subventions to go "green", but yeah the cost of going full solar panels + pump will be high.


If you're tenant or living in your property:

-The cost of using electrical heaters is massive
-Electricity prices are always increasing and lately they announce again a significant raise (imagine its 2-3% that's raising your bill with that).

So in any case regardless of government bans, I'd suggest you consider replacement...
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Old 06.10.2014, 10:20
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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If you are owner and renting:
-Having electrical heaters is bad for resale value. There are some subventions to go "green", but yeah the cost of going full solar panels + pump will be high.


If you're tenant or living in your property:

-The cost of using electrical heaters is massive
-Electricity prices are always increasing and lately they announce again a significant raise (imagine its 2-3% that's raising your bill with that).

So in any case regardless of government bans, I'd suggest you consider replacement...
Yeah and what's the date the OP specifically asked for? Or do you think he's a moron?
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Old 06.10.2014, 10:23
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

So everyone is busy building wind farms, etc, to generate renewable electricity and you're not going to be able to use it to heat your home? Surely that only leaves you with oil (also rising in price), thermal (if you can do it), pellets (seems to me like you'd use a lot of those for heating and what about the environmental side?) or solar (which isn't enough to heat a whole house is it?).
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Old 06.10.2014, 10:32
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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Yeah and what's the date the OP specifically asked for? Or do you think he's a moron?
2025 is far-

So regardeless the official date, OP should consider changing.

He asked for date, but as per my response, it's almost irrelevant...(well unless OP has no funds to replace).

Meaning it "should" be changed from a financial point of view.



As for getting exact answers, the OP can use any paid service, my time and efforts were free of charge. If you're not happy with it, you can make a complain to the manag... oh no wait, you can piss off and discard it!

You welcome
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Old 06.10.2014, 10:34
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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So everyone is busy building wind farms, etc, to generate renewable electricity and you're not going to be able to use it to heat your home? Surely that only leaves you with oil (also rising in price), thermal (if you can do it), pellets (seems to me like you'd use a lot of those for heating and what about the environmental side?) or solar (which isn't enough to heat a whole house is it?).
I think it's not efficient?
Maybe it's all about radiators used, no idea-

Just know that electricity prices are rising and that "previous generations" of electrical heaters were heavy electricity consumer.
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Old 06.10.2014, 10:50
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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I think it's not efficient?
Maybe it's all about radiators used, no idea-

Just know that electricity prices are rising and that "previous generations" of electrical heaters were heavy electricity consumer.
In terms of converting fuel energy into heat energy then electricity is the most efficient.
Seems a strange decision to ban this source; as was mentioned there is a lot of work going into making electricity from renewable sources which you will then not be able to use for heating!
So the alternative is to use non-renewable sources like oil or coal?
I doubt there is enough wood available for large scale use for heating, I mean if everybody in the Kanton turned to wood?

Does this mean heat pumps (which are very efficient but electricity driven) will also be unusable? Heat pumps are a very efficient source of heat, in Zürich Kanton there is even a special tariff for electricity used for heat pumps.
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Old 06.10.2014, 10:58
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

http://www.vd.ch/themes/environnemen...s-electriques/
Google translate it-

So far I don't see any official date, I found elements saying "putting electrical heater" in Vaud is now forbidden. But have not found the source yet.

Edit:
Found the equivalent law of your "Fribourg" Canton law (ROF) for VAUD:
http://www.vd.ch/themes/environnemen...tique/#c178587

http://www.rsv.vd.ch/rsvsite/rsv_sit...difiante=false

Looks like installation of electric heaters is already banned in Vaud...

Last edited by CorsebouTheReturn; 06.10.2014 at 11:21.
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Old 06.10.2014, 11:10
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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In terms of converting fuel energy into heat energy then electricity is the most efficient.
Seems a strange decision to ban this source; as was mentioned there is a lot of work going into making electricity from renewable sources which you will then not be able to use for heating!
So the alternative is to use non-renewable sources like oil or coal?
I doubt there is enough wood available for large scale use for heating, I mean if everybody in the Kanton turned to wood?

Does this mean heat pumps (which are very efficient but electricity driven) will also be unusable? Heat pumps are a very efficient source of heat, in Zürich Kanton there is even a special tariff for electricity used for heat pumps.
There's certainly a lot of decision making when you look into it. The house is electrically heated currently. I got a quote from the Gas company here on the expected cost to heat via Gas, and its roughly the same. Geothermic, when you include the follow-on costs such as new doors, amended stairs from the underfloor heating, comes in at around 100k. the other options are wood and Mazout, which take up space, or solar / wind.

For us I think it depends on the timing. we will also renovate a new kitchen and bathroom so given a 15-20 year lifetime for those, if we were still in the property in that time, then it would be about time to re-do them so the plan of waiting until near 2030 then redo the lot would work quite well. If its 2025, then its more a 10 year gap and it might be worth going upfront with it now, however given the astronomically high costs for fitting to the benefit given with current technology we would prefer to to a spell with electric then another re-renovation.

Interestingly, solar electric does seem fairly decent, solar for water heating not so. Solar electric will pay about 25% of the electric bill and pay for itself in about 7 years with the current grants you can get. solar water would be a 30 year timespan and by then the technolgy will have changed anyway.

Its all quite suprising when you look into it, the straightforward "well get rid of it and get something green in" argument really isnt very cost effective right now.

Mike
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Old 06.10.2014, 11:11
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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http://www.vd.ch/themes/environnemen...s-electriques/
Google translate it-

So far I don't see any official date, I found elements saying "putting electrical heater" in Vaud is now forbidden. But have not found the source yet.
Yes I've seen this thanks. it mentions some grants but nothing about the dates themselves.
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Old 06.10.2014, 11:23
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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Yes I've seen this thanks. it mentions some grants but nothing about the dates themselves.
got it. 2030 it seems.

http://www.vd.ch/fileadmin/user_uplo...t_d%C3%A9v.pdf
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Old 06.10.2014, 11:43
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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So everyone is busy building wind farms, etc, to generate renewable electricity and you're not going to be able to use it to heat your home? Surely that only leaves you with oil (also rising in price), thermal (if you can do it), pellets (seems to me like you'd use a lot of those for heating and what about the environmental side?) or solar (which isn't enough to heat a whole house is it?).
You forgot gas. Town or propane are both suitable for heating purposes.
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Old 06.10.2014, 12:02
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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You forgot gas. Town or propane are both suitable for heating purposes.
Haven't really seen a lot of properties using gas/propane and again wouldn't it be just as expensive as oil?
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Old 06.10.2014, 12:09
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

Hm so can you please expand?

On the link I gave it seems to talk about ban of electric heaters (already on).
What's difference with yours?

Like someone else said before, the thing heatpump/solar panels also use electricity when not able to produce enough, will that be banned also?

An another note from my readings, seems that this law is not making sense for a few people and they want to get it removed-

For example I found a link where they were showing how the practical applications are dumb: someone going for non electric (banned) with little money left for renovations would end up consuming more energy and wasting since they can not afford to fix the house.

So maybe by then it would change.
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Old 06.10.2014, 12:13
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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You forgot gas. Town or propane are both suitable for heating purposes.
True but also not renewable and you need somewhere to build the gas tank to keep the stuff.
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Old 06.10.2014, 12:18
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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Haven't really seen a lot of properties using gas/propane and again wouldn't it be just as expensive as oil?
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True but also not renewable and you need somewhere to build the gas tank to keep the stuff.
I was just pointing out that MF has forgotten an option, not claiming it was cheaper than anything.
The OP wasn't actually asking for alternatives though, just a date for the start of a ban.
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Old 06.10.2014, 12:24
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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I was just pointing out that MF has forgotten an option, not claiming it was cheaper than anything.
The OP wasn't actually asking for alternatives though, just a date for the start of a ban.
I was wondering about "why the ban". If it is on green/renewable grounds then it seems very strange.
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Old 06.10.2014, 12:28
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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There's certainly a lot of decision making when you look into it. The house is electrically heated currently. I got a quote from the Gas company here on the expected cost to heat via Gas, and its roughly the same. Geothermic, when you include the follow-on costs such as new doors, amended stairs from the underfloor heating, comes in at around 100k. the other options are wood and Mazout, which take up space, or solar / wind.

For us I think it depends on the timing. we will also renovate a new kitchen and bathroom so given a 15-20 year lifetime for those, if we were still in the property in that time, then it would be about time to re-do them so the plan of waiting until near 2030 then redo the lot would work quite well. If its 2025, then its more a 10 year gap and it might be worth going upfront with it now, however given the astronomically high costs for fitting to the benefit given with current technology we would prefer to to a spell with electric then another re-renovation.

Interestingly, solar electric does seem fairly decent, solar for water heating not so. Solar electric will pay about 25% of the electric bill and pay for itself in about 7 years with the current grants you can get. solar water would be a 30 year timespan and by then the technolgy will have changed anyway.

Its all quite suprising when you look into it, the straightforward "well get rid of it and get something green in" argument really isnt very cost effective right now.

Mike
About "pay for itself in about 7 years with the current grants you can get" Problem with solar is it is not cheaper just that somebody else pays the additional costs; including you via your taxes

I do not know what sort of life these solar units have so the question is "will there be grants available at replacement time"?
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Old 06.10.2014, 12:45
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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Haven't really seen a lot of properties using gas/propane and again wouldn't it be just as expensive as oil?
Not natural gas. And isn't Erdgas basically the same?
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Old 06.10.2014, 13:05
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Re: Banning of Electric Heating in houses in Vaud

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About "pay for itself in about 7 years with the current grants you can get" Problem with solar is it is not cheaper just that somebody else pays the additional costs; including you via your taxes

I do not know what sort of life these solar units have so the question is "will there be grants available at replacement time"?
What no one mentions is the environmental cost of producing these and other electrical goods. They cause more pollution to produce than the normal stuff does so if you're thinking of buying an all electric car for example take that into consideration. They're not as environmentally friendly as claimed, the pollution is simply moved.
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