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-   -   Notice period for apartment [Kundigungsfrist]: moving out before the 3 months notice (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/221372-notice-period-apartment-kundigungsfrist-moving-out-before-3-months-notice.html)

Nukles85 07.11.2014 07:37

Notice period for apartment [Kundigungsfrist]: moving out before the 3 months notice
 
Hi all,

I was wondering, there exist the Kundigungsfrist for apartments, in which the owner should tell you 3 months in advance at least that he wants you to leave. If I however find a new home already before these 3 months, can I move in that apartment already? Or should I wait the 3 months?

I find it hard to believe that I have to wait 3 months, as finding an apartment is not like buying milk at the supermarket... you don t get one when you like.

k_and_e 07.11.2014 08:23

Re: kundigungsfrist
 
You are right.
The notification period in the rental contract is actually a practical joke for foreigners.
A typical example of Swiss humor.

Guest 07.11.2014 08:25

Re: kundigungsfrist
 
You can move whenever you like, but contractually you are obliged to pay rent on your current apartment until the end of the notice period (Kundigungsfrist). However, if your landlord is keen to take possession, s/he may be happy to shorten the Kundigungsfrist. Just ask!

Is the "new" apartment available immediately? Usually you'd have to wait for its tenants to move out.

Nukles85 07.11.2014 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_and_e (Post 2276463)
You are right.
The notification period in the rental contract is actually a practical joke for foreigners.
A typical example of Swiss humor.

I don't agree with you as an example of "Swiss humor", as this rule is also present in other Countries and protects the interests of both the owner and the tenant and is a fair rule. But since the owner and the tenant are obviously on two different levels, usually the rule is more protective towards the tenant: she is the one at risk of not having a place to stay. I asked if it's the same here.

I don't know if you intended to be ironical as "practical joke for foreigners", as I didn't want to be disrespectful of the rules or the Swiss at all. I asked a question.

Quote:

You can move whenever you like, but contractually you are obliged to pay rent on your current apartment until the end of the notice period (Kundigungsfrist). However, if your landlord is keen to take possession, s/he may be happy to shorten the Kundigungsfrist. Just ask!

Is the "new" apartment available immediately? Usually you'd have to wait for its tenants to move out.
Thank you for your answer!

Actually mine is quite a peculiar situation: I was on a "sub-rental" agreement (Untermietvertrag) with the Hauptmiter (the "main tenant"). I used to pay him an amount and he used to pay the owner; the difference was intended for use of his (maint tentant's) furniture. Of course the owner knew about it.

Then the main tenant decided to step down from the sub-rental agreement, he noticed me at the beginning of October, and asked for a meeting with me and the owner that occurred some 20 days later, still within the month, in order to make me sign the new rental agreement with the owner. At the meeting the owner asked me for my personal data when the main tenant was not yet there. I gave my data, and then he asked me "When do you want to start? 1st of November?", and I said "OK".

Then the main tenant arrived and said that the contract with me and the owner was a question between me and him, and he didn't want to get involved. At the same time, I agreed with him to pay an amount for his furniture and that I would transfer the amount asap, which I did. He didn't object.

Now the former main tenant realized that the start of my new rental contract is 1st of November, and he is complaining that I didn't respect the Termination Notice period. I find it totally balooney, as he was here when I signed the contract and explicitly said he didn't want to get involved in that, and never explicitly mentioned when the new contract was starting.

Moreover, I don't see why I should pay an increased amount to the main tenant for his furniture if I have already bought it...

So that was the sense of my question. I am kind of the "new tenant" of the home I was living in, just with another agreement.

Guest 07.11.2014 09:28

Re: Notice period for apartment [Kundigungsfrist]: moving out before the 3 months not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukles85 (Post 2276448)
Hi all,

I was wondering, there exist the Kundigungsfrist for apartments, in which the owner should tell you 3 months in advance at least that he wants you to leave. If I however find a new home already before these 3 months, can I move in that apartment already? Or should I wait the 3 months?

I find it hard to believe that I have to wait 3 months, as finding an apartment is not like buying milk at the supermarket... you don t get one when you like.


It's exactly the same for us poor owners when you tennants want move out with no notice.

How would you like it if i as a landlord told you to clear off with 1 month notice as i'd found some beter paying tennant ?

The law works both ways.....

Samaire13 07.11.2014 13:35

Re: Notice period for apartment [Kundigungsfrist]: moving out before the 3 months not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukles85
Actually mine is quite a peculiar situation: I was on a "sub-rental" agreement (Untermietvertrag) with the Hauptmiter (the "main tenant"). I used to pay him an amount and he used to pay the owner; the difference was intended for use of his (maint tentant's) furniture. Of course the owner knew about it.

Then the main tenant decided to step down from the sub-rental agreement, he noticed me at the beginning of October, and asked for a meeting with me and the owner that occurred some 20 days later, still within the month, in order to make me sign the new rental agreement with the owner. At the meeting the owner asked me for my personal data when the main tenant was not yet there. I gave my data, and then he asked me "When do you want to start? 1st of November?", and I said "OK".

Then the main tenant arrived and said that the contract with me and the owner was a question between me and him, and he didn't want to get involved. At the same time, I agreed with him to pay an amount for his furniture and that I would transfer the amount asap, which I did. He didn't object.

Now the former main tenant realized that the start of my new rental contract is 1st of November, and he is complaining that I didn't respect the Termination Notice period. I find it totally balooney, as he was here when I signed the contract and explicitly said he didn't want to get involved in that, and never explicitly mentioned when the new contract was starting.

That's not the landlord's/agency's/owner problem, but yours. You have an dispute with the tenant and there was a misunderstanding between you two, so you need to find agreement with him.

nikolamark 09.11.2014 21:33

Re: Notice period for apartment [Kundigungsfrist]: moving out before the 3 months not
 
As far as I know, the sub-renting contract between you and the previous tenant is linked to the contract between him and the owner. And I would say, as soon as the "main" contract is canceled, the sub-renting one is not valid any more.

mishi 10.11.2014 13:24

Re: Notice period for apartment [Kundigungsfrist]: moving out before the 3 months not
 
Some contracts have the clause that you can provide a replacement if you want to move before completing 3 months. But finding someone and then the company agrees to them is somewhat difficult.

Urs Max 10.11.2014 13:34

Re: Notice period for apartment [Kundigungsfrist]: moving out before the 3 months not
 
A termination notice by the landlord (the main tenant in your case) must be sent(link in german) by registered mail (eingeschrieben) and on the official form. You are free to accept a spoken notice, but without anything in writing it's difficult to prove stuff.

A sublease for single rooms has a 2-week notice period, for an apartment it's 3 months. If you were renting the full apartment your erliest possible termination date would have been 31Jan, assuming you had a standard contract (and subject to additional restrictions mentioned in your lease contract), and further assuming you accept the termination in its present form - see legal requirements above. If the main contract would have run out before yours the main tenant would have been breaching his contractual duties towards you. Thus it's important for you to know when the main lease would have run out - contact the landlord if you don't know.

With a standard lease contract that's been given notice but is still running, if the tenant presents a successor who is willing to take over, the tenant can demand to be let out of the contract early. Since the main tenant arranged/asked for the meeting of the three of you it's an obvious assumption that he wanted exactly that. And the landlord appears to have assumed same, or else he wouldn't have asked when you want your contract to start.

If, on the other hand, the main tenant had intended to simply let the contract run out the tenants' presence at the meeting, let alone the meeting itself, would have been unecessary. And saying the start date was a matter between you and the landlord would have been ridiculous as the only reasonable start date in such a case would be immediately after the main contract has run out.

So the conclusion that the main tenant wanted out early is quite natural.

The way you present it the case seems quite clear. You may want to talk to the landlord first thing to see if he agrees with you, and if he would confirm your position if necessary. Then maybe see if you can arrive at some agreement with the main tenant - after all, it seems you were having an ok relationship.

worldofsuman 11.03.2015 22:44

Leaving Apartment
 
Hi,

I would like to leave my apartment before 3 months of notice period. My agency said I have to arrange the next tenant. I have already forwarded 3/4 applications but they were rejected by agency and in one case applicant didn't sign the contract. So, in this situation what is my responsibility ? and if I don't find any replacement then do I have to pay till the end of notice period ?

Thanks,

Guest 11.03.2015 22:52

Re: Leaving Apartment
 
I'm afraid that is the case- until someone suitable comes along and signs. Good luck.

Sbrinz 12.03.2015 00:01

Re: Leaving Apartment
 
You have to find one tenant that is willing to pay the rent, and has no major recorded debt. If the applicant cannot supply a clean debt certificate or refuses to sign the contract, then yes, you have to pay.

Guest 12.03.2015 11:40

Re: Notice period for apartment [Kundigungsfrist]: moving out before the 3 months not
 
I disagree with the posters above. I understand that if you find a suitable applicant who satisfies the usual criteria and present that person (ready and willing to sign a contract) to the landlord, you are off the hook, whether the landlord accepts the applicant or not. If I understand you correctly, you have put forward three or four applications, only one of which was withdrawn by the applicant. The landlord can't keep arbitrarily refusing all applicants that you present.


As always, the Schweizer Mieterverband (SMV)/ASLOCA should be your next port of call.

Guest 12.03.2015 15:22

Re: Notice period for apartment [Kundigungsfrist]: moving out before the 3 months not
 
Quote:

I disagree with the posters above. I understand that if you find a suitable applicant who satisfies the usual criteria and present that person (ready and willing to sign a contract) to the landlord, you are off the hook, whether the landlord accepts the applicant or not. If I understand you correctly, you have put forward three or four applications, only one of which was withdrawn by the applicant. The landlord can't keep arbitrarily refusing all applicants that you present.


As always, the Schweizer Mieterverband (SMV)/ASLOCA should be your next port of call.
Precisely. If the landlord refuses a suitable tenant who is willing to take over the currrent rental contract without any alterations, the landlord has to let you off the hook.

For the next tenant you present, get proof from that tenant that he would sign your contract and demand a written reason why the landlord refused him. With that, go to Asloca/renter's association as well as the arbitration office. Then (only after discussing this with the arbitration office) I would pay rent for the months after the "new" tenant's contract would have started into a blocked account (Sperrkonto).

Or skip all the fuss with looking for future tenants and go straight to Asloca/Renter's assoc. and the arbitration office with proof of what happened until now.

And only deal with your landlord in writing from now on as that is easier to present as proof than the content of phone calls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrinz (Post 2356821)
You have to find one tenant that is willing to pay the rent, and has no major recorded debt. If the applicant cannot supply a clean debt certificate or refuses to sign the contract, then yes, you have to pay.

Yes, but it doesn't matter if he has debt or not, as long as he is able to pay the rent.
If the landlord refuses to sign a contract with a suitable tenant, one is off the hook.
If the prospective tenant refuses to sign a contract with the landlord for whatever reason (even after assuring the current tenant that he would sign), one is not off the hook.


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