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Old 10.12.2014, 19:18
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The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

I rent a house with the contract saying the rent includes all (water,electricity and WIFI), we are about to move out in two months, the house lord says we should pay for the water and electricity fee that is above 250 per month. She says that is the rule in Zurich. Does it make sense?

And the house lord always enters our flat without telling us. She enters our flat two to three times per week. Just annoying. I wonder is it kind of a invasion to our privacy. She insists that she owns this flat so she can enter it whenever she wants.

She says she also will charge some cleaning fee when we move out. She says "I rent you a new flat and you should return a new flat". I think it's too demanding. We've already tried our best to keep it clean, but she will charge us even there's a tiny stain in kitchen.

I highly suspect that her requirement is not reasonable. If it is possible, I will ask for legal protection.
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Old 10.12.2014, 19:35
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Kick her butt out if she enters the space you are paying rent for!

She has NO right to enter without your permission.

Yes, you have to leave the flat in the same (clean) condition you got it in. But when the time comes for you to depart, you will be there, with a "specialist" for the handover, and will be given a chance to rectify any marks or stains you may have overlooked.

I`ve never heard about any "ceiling" amount to electricity/water cost?

If your contract includes Nebenkosten then that is what it includes, unless otherwise stated in your contract.
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Old 10.12.2014, 19:44
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Join the Mieterverband (tenant's association) now. They can answer all your questions, review your contract, and be present for the handover to ensure it is done properly with nothing sneaky added. I think the fee is only about 60 Francs to join. And as smoky says, she should not be entering your flat unless it's an emergency or she's given you at least 24 hours' notice.
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Old 10.12.2014, 20:50
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Thanks for your advice Smoky. I will begin to collect the evidence that she enters without permission. I can track the date and the time she enters, but I wonder how to show she comes "without permission".
I check my contract again, for Nebenkosten there's no tick for the options, so it doesn't include other fees. But when I signed the contract, she told me the rent includes all and she also said so in the advertisement in the forum, because I don't know German, I was cheated. But I've keep the photocopy of the advertisement online, and all of our roommate can assure that she promised that rent includes all.
According to your advice, so we need to hire a "specialist" to check the condition of our flat?

Thank you 3Wishes. I will check the Mieterverband

Last edited by 3Wishes; 10.12.2014 at 21:19. Reason: merging successive posts
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Old 11.12.2014, 11:37
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Your landlord may enter your place but only under exceptional circumstances - eg, flooding - but not on spurious grounds.

The Mietverband has an annual subscription, so wait until January and you'll get a years membership. Alternatively, you can ask for their help on a pay as you go basis, which costs slightly more.

The additional utility costs are a standard feature of rental life; however, if they're not in the contract, you may have grounds to refuse.

The Mietverband are a good group but don't always have English speaking advisers, so find a friend. Good luck.
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Old 11.12.2014, 12:03
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

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I rent a house with the contract saying the rent includes all (water,electricity and WIFI), we are about to move out in two months, the house lord says we should pay for the water and electricity fee that is above 250 per month. She says that is the rule in Zurich. Does it make sense?
In general electricity and internet is something separate you pay yourself. And additional heating costs. Your landlord seems to have given you a contract that includes certain costs but of course if your electricity bill is twice as high as planned she won't cover it.
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Old 13.12.2014, 12:25
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

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Thanks for your advice Smoky. I will begin to collect the evidence that she enters without permission. I can track the date and the time she enters, but I wonder how to show she comes "without permission".
I check my contract again, for Nebenkosten there's no tick for the options, so it doesn't include other fees. But when I signed the contract, she told me the rent includes all and she also said so in the advertisement in the forum, because I don't know German, I was cheated. But I've keep the photocopy of the advertisement online, and all of our roommate can assure that she promised that rent includes all.
According to your advice, so we need to hire a "specialist" to check the condition of our flat?

Thank you 3Wishes. I will check the Mieterverband
How do you know she enters your flat? Is it just a suspicion? Or do you have evidence/witnesses?

You should have an impartial (experienced/qualified)person present at the hand-over. There are firms that specialise in that. Check 2Wishes recomendation?
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Old 13.12.2014, 12:44
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

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Your landlord may enter your place but only under exceptional circumstances - eg, flooding - but not on spurious grounds.
Except in absolute emergencies, they must inform your prior to entry. Anything else is Break and Enter (Hausfriedensbruch)

http://www.hev-zuerich.ch/der_zuerch...-200302-09.htm
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Old 17.12.2014, 17:50
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

She entered the flat when we were at home. But she didn't tell us in advance that she would come.

Is it illegal?

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How do you know she enters your flat? Is it just a suspicion? Or do you have evidence/witnesses?

You should have an impartial (experienced/qualified)person present at the hand-over. There are firms that specialise in that. Check 2Wishes recomendation?
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Old 17.12.2014, 17:55
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

She doesn't let us use drier. We never waste power or water.
She doesn't show us electricity bill, just saying that we have used a lot.

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In general electricity and internet is something separate you pay yourself. And additional heating costs. Your landlord seems to have given you a contract that includes certain costs but of course if your electricity bill is twice as high as planned she won't cover it.
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Old 17.12.2014, 17:56
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Did she enter with a key, without knocking?
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Old 17.12.2014, 17:59
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Yes, she entered with a key without knocking, usually opened the door with a greeting to show some politeness
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Did she enter with a key, without knocking?
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Old 17.12.2014, 18:20
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Leave a key in the lock.

Tom
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Old 17.12.2014, 18:24
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Send her a registered letter immediately stating that you request she give you all the keys to the apartment immediately, and that if she doesn't do so, you will escalate this matter to the renter's association/Mieterverband. Also inform her that you are contacting the arbitration office/Schlichtungsbehörde irrespective of what she does (see below for explanation).

Her entering the flat turns illegal at the latest in the moment when you ask her to leave and she doesn't. But depending on circumstances it can be illegal before that. Given that you don't want her to enter your apartment and want all your keys (so that only you have access) it could very well be illegal already if she just enters the apartment without your express permission. Despite her having the key to it.

Please get this taken care of ASAP and do join the Mieterverband (renter's association). Call your local Schlichtungsbehörde/arbitration office (you'll find it and respective contact details by clicking your region on the map on this page) tomorrow morning or even today and ask them for help.


Good luck.
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Old 17.12.2014, 18:51
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

She is not acting the way she ought to. If I were you, I would contact the mieterverband right away :

https://www.mieterverband.ch

Membership is not that expensive and in your case it sounds as if you need it. I would also advise you to get an expert through the Mieterverband to help you with the handover to ensure it goes according to the way it should.

How long have you lived there?

Finally, she is breaking the law by keeping a key without your permission and entering your apartment whenever she feels like it, so I would ask the Mieterverband to help you with that as well - ask them to help you with the letter you should write.
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Old 17.12.2014, 20:27
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Thank you. I just join MV today.
Do you think next time she enters without permission can I call police?
Will police care this kind of small stuffs? And do I need to pay for police?

Quote:
Send her a registered letter immediately stating that you request she give you all the keys to the apartment immediately, and that if she doesn't do so, you will escalate this matter to the renter's association/Mieterverband. Also inform her that you are contacting the arbitration office/Schlichtungsbehörde irrespective of what she does (see below for explanation).

Her entering the flat turns illegal at the latest in the moment when you ask her to leave and she doesn't. But depending on circumstances it can be illegal before that. Given that you don't want her to enter your apartment and want all your keys (so that only you have access) it could very well be illegal already if she just enters the apartment without your express permission. Despite her having the key to it.

Please get this taken care of ASAP and do join the Mieterverband (renter's association). Call your local Schlichtungsbehörde/arbitration office (you'll find it and respective contact details by clicking your region on the map on this page) tomorrow morning or even today and ask them for help.


Good luck.
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Old 17.12.2014, 20:28
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Thank you. I join MV today.
I have lived there for 3 months

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She is not acting the way she ought to. If I were you, I would contact the mieterverband right away :

https://www.mieterverband.ch

Membership is not that expensive and in your case it sounds as if you need it. I would also advise you to get an expert through the Mieterverband to help you with the handover to ensure it goes according to the way it should.

How long have you lived there?

Finally, she is breaking the law by keeping a key without your permission and entering your apartment whenever she feels like it, so I would ask the Mieterverband to help you with that as well - ask them to help you with the letter you should write.
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Old 17.12.2014, 20:53
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

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Thank you. I just join MV today.
Do you think next time she enters without permission can I call police?
Will police care this kind of small stuffs? And do I need to pay for police?
You could call your local police office tomorrow morning and ask them how you can/should proceed with regards to your landlady. I don't think you have to wait until she does again what she's not allowed to do in the first place. But ask the MV/arbitration office about calling the police office on her before doing it to see if you can/should take less intense steps first.

So:
1. Good for joining MV. Call them tomorrow.
2. Call the arbitration office/Schlichtungsbehörde tomorrow as well as that's where the MV will send you to to solve issues with your landlord regarding your rental.
3. Call the local police office if MV/AO recommend it or you feel unsafe.
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Old 17.12.2014, 21:00
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Re: The contract says rent includes all but houselord asks for water/elec fee

Thank you. I made an appointment with MV today to meet legal adviser on next Monday. I will call arbitration and local police, thanks.


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You could call your local police office tomorrow morning and ask them how you can/should proceed with regards to your landlady. I don't think you have to wait until she does again what she's not allowed to do in the first place. But ask the MV/arbitration office about calling the police office on her before doing it to see if you can/should take less intense steps first.

So:
1. Good for joining MV. Call them tomorrow.
2. Call the arbitration office/Schlichtungsbehörde tomorrow as well as that's where the MV will send you to to solve issues with your landlord regarding your rental.
3. Call the local police office if MV/AO recommend it or you feel unsafe.
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