Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13.01.2015, 13:00
catking2003's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 38
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
catking2003 has become a little unpopularcatking2003 has become a little unpopular
The person I sublease from won't give me back full deposit money :(

It is kind of a long story so let me put it shortly. I rented a studio for 4 months from September to December and in the first month the owner told me he could negotiate with the regie to extend the contract to 5 months and I agreed.

After that I received nothing regarding this matter until December, when he suddenly told me to stay an extra month (not even asking if I still want to extend it or not after 2 months). At that time I have already found the next apartment and paid for it (housing in Geneva is hard to find so we tend to look for it earlier) so I refused to extend the contract.

For two weeks I tried to find a subleaser for him even though I don't think it is much of my fault. In mid December he told me to stop looking and said it is fine. I thought he solved the issue somehow. After that everything seems ok, he checked the apartment and confirmed the contract and agreed to pay back my deposit in 2 days by bank transfer.

He did not . It has been a week until he actually made the transfer and out of 2500 deposit he only returned 1800.

I am not just angry at the loss of deposit money but more about how he never told me about this the whole time, only to surprise me in the last minute. Also his lack of enthusiasm in finding another person to sublease makes me feel like I am scammed (although he probably won't go so low).

Is there anything I can do now? I still have the contract we both signed and it has deposit amount written on it. It can prove that he did not return my full deposit. Is there any legal approach I can use? I don't care too much about the money but I don't want to let him get away with it easily as well.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank catking2003 for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 13.01.2015, 13:07
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich to the other...
Posts: 6,022
Groaned at 35 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 5,829 Times in 2,738 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The person I sublease from won't give me back full deposit money :(

What contract period did you agree to, and what was the notice period? Did you actually give written notice to terminate the sublet, or was there some agreement on the end-date.

If you made 'some effort' to find a repleacement tenant, that perhaps is some admission of responsibility.

I assume from your post (it is not 100% clear) that as far as you are concerned you agreed to four months originally, then agreed to five, but found something else and the amount missing from the deposit is the January rent?

To be honest, It would be his word against yours, and unless you know they managed to replace you in January (did you move out 100% before end of December?)... Then it just your word against his.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 13.01.2015, 13:33
catking2003's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 38
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
catking2003 has become a little unpopularcatking2003 has become a little unpopular
Re: The person I sublease from won't give me back full deposit money :(

Quote:
View Post
What contract period did you agree to, and what was the notice period? Did you actually give written notice to terminate the sublet, or was there some agreement on the end-date.

If you made 'some effort' to find a repleacement tenant, that perhaps is some admission of responsibility.

I assume from your post (it is not 100% clear) that as far as you are concerned you agreed to four months originally, then agreed to five, but found something else and the amount missing from the deposit is the January rent?

To be honest, It would be his word against yours, and unless you know they managed to replace you in January (did you move out 100% before end of December?)... Then it just your word against his.
The contract period written down was 4 months from September to December. I would like to stay as long as possible back then but the owner said it was impossible to extend, until he told me about the possibility later of course.

"If you made 'some effort' to find a repleacement tenant, that perhaps is some admission of responsibility." - I think it is kindergarten common sense that there is a difference between possibility and certainty. The only responsibility I may have is that I could have informed him when I found the new apartment but I honestly have forgotten the whole thing since he never came back to me regarding this issue after the initial talk in September. Also I consider myself a kind person so even if it is not my problem at all I won't refuse to help (since when helping others = bearing responsibility?).

Let me try to make it clear. When we first made the contract together, the owner has to return the studio to regie in December and although I asked him if it is possible to extend he said no. After I moved in, he contacted me in mid September about the possibility of extending the contract to January (which I was happy about) but he also made it crystal clear that it is not certain and he needed to negotiate with the regie. After the talk in September, he did not confirm with me the result of his negotiation until December. He also told me that the regie only confirmed with him in late November. In my opinion, if the regie confirmed with him in late November, he should have asked me if I still want to extend after 2 months and if the situation has changed. (I think it totally makes no sense that you go ask someone if he wants XXX, then after 2 months tell him it is done)

The amount missing is half of monthly rent. Like I said before, what I am most unhappy about is the fact that he chose to not tell me about taking away part of my deposit this whole time. IMO if he:
1. tell me what is at stake at the beginning (losing part of deposit)
2. work together with me to find a new subleaser
3. could not find a subleaser
4. we share the loss together

Then I am totally fine with it. The fact is, if I know he will take away my deposit money (if he did not say it is fine and I don't need to find the new resident before), then I can simply lower the rent. I know tons of people who would rent the studio at a lower price like 1000 or even 800.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13.01.2015, 14:39
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich to the other...
Posts: 6,022
Groaned at 35 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 5,829 Times in 2,738 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The person I sublease from won't give me back full deposit money :(

Did you move out 100% completely and do the handover before the end of December ?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13.01.2015, 14:53
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,019
Groaned at 1,992 Times in 1,508 Posts
Thanked 34,473 Times in 16,396 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The person I sublease from won't give me back full deposit money :(

Quote:
View Post
I rented a studio for 4 months from September to December and in the first month the owner told me he could negotiate with the regie to extend the contract to 5 months and I agreed.
Why would the owner have to negotiate with the regie?

The regie has to do what the owner tells them, not the other way around.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13.01.2015, 15:02
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,609
Groaned at 77 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 17,469 Times in 7,861 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The person I sublease from won't give me back full deposit money :(

It's not clear from your post - how were these communications handled? In person or phone, or using registered letters. I'm afraid if you don't have anything in writing about the change in terms then it really is your word against his. You can try to contact Asloca (the tenant association) for advice.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13.01.2015, 15:50
catking2003's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 38
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
catking2003 has become a little unpopularcatking2003 has become a little unpopular
Quote:
View Post
Why would the owner have to negotiate with the regie?

The regie has to do what the owner tells them, not the other way around.

Tom
He lived in the studio rented from regie and subleased the studio to me (at a higher price I guess since he is afraid of being found out by the regie). I call him the owner cos it is easier this way (what else should I call him?).

Quote:
View Post
Did you move out 100% completely and do the handover before the end of December ?
I moved out on December 17th but he said he was not in Geneva and only to handle the check out in January 3rd. Does this matter a lot?

Quote:
View Post
It's not clear from your post - how were these communications handled? In person or phone, or using registered letters. I'm afraid if you don't have anything in writing about the change in terms then it really is your word against his. You can try to contact Asloca (the tenant association) for advice.
many are done by text message so I do have some records. there is nothing written about the change of contract (cos it is not changed! we talked about changing it in September but in September he himself did not know it is possible to change the contract. When he came to me after being confirmed by regie, it was already December and I have already found new apartment.)

so if we were to look at written records, no record will support his story.

thanks for the advice, I will see what Asloca could do

Last edited by 3Wishes; 13.01.2015 at 16:04. Reason: merging successive posts
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13.01.2015, 17:33
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,019
Groaned at 1,992 Times in 1,508 Posts
Thanked 34,473 Times in 16,396 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The person I sublease from won't give me back full deposit money :(

Quote:
View Post
He lived in the studio rented from regie and subleased the studio to me (at a higher price I guess since he is afraid of being found out by the regie). I call him the owner cos it is easier this way (what else should I call him?).
The lease holder.

The owner is the person the regie work for.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 13.01.2015, 17:49
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The person I sublease from won't give me back full deposit money :(

The landlord would be very interested to hear he was making a profit from you, all sub-letting requires a copy of the sub-let contract to be given to the landlord or agent/regie, precisely to see if a profit is being made. He could now be thrown out immediately as he has broken his contract with the landlord or letting agent/regie.

I think you could write him a nice letter pointing out that he has engineered the situation (by not being present for a handover in December) enabling him to steal an extra one month rent from you. Tell him you intend to report the theft to the police, as you have the necessary evidence on your phone, and tell him that you will also ask the regie/landlord if he can help you with refunding the rent for January.

That should make him change his mind.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 13.01.2015, 19:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The person I sublease from won't give me back full deposit money :(

As Sbrinz says. I did post about this case some months ago, but a leaseholder had to back-pay years of extra rent to the owner, as he had lied about the extra amount he was charging on top of his rent to the subleaser.
He has to have permission of owner/regie to sublet, and he has to declare the rent he will charge. He can charge a little extra for furniture, etc- but only about 10%. Can't remember the exact figure, but in that case he had increased rent by about 40%.

Your case ie perhaps a reminder- again- that renting in Switzerland can be very complicated, and sub-renting can easily turn into a nightmare for either party (sub-rentor causing extensive damage, stealing stuff, and disappearing, possibly abroad, without paying rent or damage. Always check with Alsoca that everything is done by the book- or...
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Getting back deposit money. Am I in a mess? EricXing Housing in general 20 31.10.2013 20:47
Driving School Won't Give Me A Refund M_D_Kaiser Other/general 7 21.01.2013 14:05
UBS Bank charges me to deposit money? Meeyat Finance/banking/taxation 19 02.11.2012 21:59
Give me your money! wattsli1 Daily life 4 19.07.2012 00:13
Give me Money Confloozed General off-topic 13 10.08.2009 12:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0