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-   -   Giving up.. (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/227655-giving-up.html)

Cascabel 12.02.2015 22:34

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MsWorWoo (Post 2339955)
Oh, I understand, my daughter is 6 and a half. Luckily her birthday is in summer so I had a picnic in the communal area outside, only me and my daughter were allowed inside the flat, and I had a large tent (with the internal rooms left out) for a cover for the food etc. I tried to book the local hall, but my German wasn't good enough to get a Response. Year before I had a 'teddy bear picnic' in the same area, but it's harder to corral 5 year olds.
Could you go somewhere else? A cafe or a soft play centre type thing? One of my daughter KG friends (who lives in the same apartment group as me) arranged to go to tramoplino, another to a horse stables. Of course, these options are not cheap, but probably less stressful than lots of kindergartners in a confined space.

Her birthday is in May, if we are lucky i will do something near the lake but we never know and if this is a rainy day. I am asking the other mothers, renting a place to celebrate it is not an option i couldnt handle myself all the kids plus i do not speak german haha..!! I was told that there was a place like tramoplinos, called fun planet or planet fun.. i need to check it and soon..

Thanks for sharing MsWorWoo :o

Guest 12.02.2015 23:30

Re: Giving up..
 
Translation done - PM sent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 2339888)
You forgot the essential:

9. In catholic canton: reference from the pope himself.
9. In protestant canton: reference from god himself.

What about neutral cantons? ;)

Flaui 13.02.2015 00:35

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339959)
Her birthday is in May, if we are lucky i will do something near the lake but we never know and if this is a rainy day. I am asking the other mothers, renting a place to celebrate it is not an option i couldnt handle myself all the kids plus i do not speak german haha..!! I was told that there was a place like tramoplinos, called fun planet or planet fun.. i need to check it and soon..

There is a place in Emmen, Luzern. Called Kids Arena, it's an indoor playground, my son loves it. It is pretty big and if the weather is bad, best place to go. Also it might be an ideal place for your daughter to celebrate her birthday with friends. She can arrange to meet her friends there and play together :) you can check out info here: http://www.kids-arena.ch/
It is a bit remote so easier if you drive.

greenmount 13.02.2015 08:29

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339102)
Thank you Makas.. This are very positive and persistent tips.



I applied for all the 2 rooms flat, 2.5 and 3 rooms flats. More would be too much for me and i am willing to pay until CHF 1'400.00, CHF 1'500.00. There are very nice flats in this area for this price. I can say that i was rejected from 2 i visited, the same re-appeared a few months later on Comparis and Tutti, i re-applied and was re-rejected.

This might sound crazy and unreal, but it's true.. After what happened today i could not contain the tears.. It cannot be true.. This cannot be happening to me or to anybody.. 2 years working and searching and with a kind and yes, i focus on the fact that i already know the neighborhood and that i work in the same area, and that my daughter is attending this neighbourhood kindergarten... But nothing.. i undersand their policy of "Swiss people first" but.. that's incredible.

:msnsad::msnsad:

Sorry to hear about your problems, OP.
I have to say that your restrictions for the new flat you're looking for are not going to take you anywhere IMHO.
You limit your searches to a very small area which happens to be central, thus making things 5 times more difficult, and to a a very tight budget. And...you're not Swiss. You have no idea how well networking functions here. I was happy when I found our new apartment only to realise that for the same area and similar standards I could have found a cheaper one, had I had the right connections or networking.
Recently one of my Swiss friends asked me if I want to move in a bigger place...she had heard of an apartment in the vicinity of my current one and guess what, I felt frustrated we pay double for what we have now (slightly better conditions though, but anyway).Just saying..how things appear to function for a certain price range.

Btw, your daughter is still in kindergarten, do you think she could not adapt to a new place? I think she's still at an age when people adapt very easily to a new environment.

3Wishes 13.02.2015 09:01

Re: Giving up..
 
OP I'm sorry you're in such a difficult spot. :( This is just my opinion, trying to put myself in your shoes. Sorry if I ramble a bit but hopefully it will make sense.:msnblush:

I'd give up on the current search - but only to expand it to a little further out of the town center. I know you don't want to change your daughter's school because you're worried it will disrupt her. However she is old enough now to pick up on how stressed out you are trying to find a new flat, and that part of the "problem" is finding a flat that will keep her in her school.

Kids blame themselves for all kinds of stuff. It's not a stretch to think at some point she is going to feel bad, thinking she is causing your stress. It gets into a vicious circle - you feel bad you can't do what you think is best for her, and she feels bad for "causing" you stress.

Kids are adaptable. She may not like a new school at first but she will fit right in at such a young age and already having some time in Swiss schools. She'll pick up on the fact you're more relaxed. :)

I also know you want as much time with her as possible. That's understandable! However if giving up 10 more minutes commute each way means you have a better place to live and less stress, isn't it worth at least looking? It never hurts to have options.

Finally, I would not resign your current job without something else lined up. You say you "might" be able to get your old job back. The job market is just too competitive right now to take such risks. I would not quit what you have until you've got a new signed contract in your hands.

Hang in there and keep your eyes open to the possibilities. Sending you big, virtual hugs.:thumbsup:

amogles 13.02.2015 10:30

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339948)
Uuuhh.. I have just remembered one of the worst experiences i have ever had.

I saw a flat, i called the landlord, she invite me to visit the flat. Then i called her back and advised her that i was very interested in renting it. She invited me to a "meeting/interview" so that she can get to know me. When i arrived, she advised me that the flat was gone. I asked her why didn't she cancel the meeting? And then she offered me another flat, in a building that was going to be completely renoviert in a year with the promise to move us to another flat if any becomes available.. I am desperate, I went to see this new flat and saw that the walls were full of mold.. Of course, i politely advised her that i went to the interview in order to apply for one particular flat and that this flat does not respond to my needs, also that i am alone wih a kid and that moving in moving out costs money. The lady, which owns all the buildings of one of the largest streets in the city, got angry at me, and sent me the below e-mail:

"Guten Abend

Ich nehme das so zur Kenntnis, aber bei mir werden Sie leider keine zweite Chance haben.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen"

I keep this e-mail as a reminder on how cruel people can be..

This sounds terrible.

But don't give up. Not all landlords are nasty like this.

Samaire13 13.02.2015 10:44

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

The reasons for people to take this personally can be really complex - depending on how much time one has to search for flats (e.g. due to job stress), how tight one's income is (having to get into a cheaper flat because the current one has become too expensive), how the personal circumstances of the searcher are (perhaps they have an ailing family member or friend they need to be close to, their pets need quick rehoming because their current neighbors are kicking up a fuss, their kids are being placed in a school in a different district for whichever reasons), it can be very hard to not be disappointed when one gets turned down for a flat. "Something will turn up" - despite being well intentioned - sometimes just isn't enough to stay motivated, but receiving practical help (e.g. friends helping with the search, advice on how to act during viewings, help writing letters) can be more helpful. It all depends on the apartment hunter in question - one size definitely doesn't fit all here.
Yes, of course, but my advice is that if one way has been tried and tested and failed every time, it's maybe time to reconsider and change one's approach.

I can insist on finding the perfect 3.5-room apartment within a radius of 1000m of the lake of Zurich at a price of 2000, but can be sure that if something like that does open up, I certainly won't be the only one interested in it.

Or I can realize that my previous x attempts at finding something very specific have not worked out, then make a list of must-haves and nice-to-haves and adapt accordingly.

There's always things that are not absolutely vital, even if we at first don't think so. Most ist just convenience, rather than necessity. As with everything in life, one needs to set priorities. Here, there doesn't seem to be an immediate urgency in finding a new place, so it's either a question of patience, patience, patience or - well, see above.

That is genuine advice that is in no way meant to attack Cascabel. I can relate to the frustration, I've lived here long enough to know that the apartment hunt can be difficult and frustrating.

dodgyken 13.02.2015 10:54

Re: Giving up..
 
As per Samaires' post.

I remember looking a number of years ago for somewhere in 8032 - with 4 rooms and under 3,000chf. For every place that came up there would be a 100 other couples all going for it.

In the end we admitted defeat and went for a different area - further out, not quite as convienient, a bit more expensive, far from ideal layout BUT we got it!!

Someone once said "you can't always get what you want, you'll get what you need"

Papa Goose 13.02.2015 10:59

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samaire13 (Post 2340111)
Yes, of course, but my advice is that if one way has been tried and tested and failed every time, it's maybe time to reconsider and change one's approach.

Very true, as the saying goes "if you always do what you've always done, you always get what you always got". There have been some useful and not so tips offered, but largely in a landlords market the reason you may not be making the cut is simple economics surety for the landlord. the rental payment from a 2 income household is more sustainable than from 1 in the case of job loss, a child puts more of a strain on that 1 income, so I can think of 2 categories of applicant that you would have to trump to stand a chance.

I would suggest a more holistic look at your situation and re-prioritise, as clearly the town centre option isn't happening for you. A young child will adapt quickly to change, so is looking further afield really so bad compared to your current arrangements, and your distress at the rejections?

AVS1985 13.02.2015 11:43

Re: Giving up..
 
I posted a similar thread 4 months ago and today I write this from my perfect apartment. I was doing the same as you, had all the papers, befriending tenants, writing letters but it was all a waste of time and the agencies themselves were not pleasant to deal with at all. I was blighted by a temporary work contract and L permit and in the end am renting through a private landlord. I have to say that there was a certain degree of luck involved..I actually got so depressed I didn't even want to come and see the place because I knew I would love it and just be disappointed again, but you have to keep going, in the end it all worked out. The perfect place for you both is out there waiting..I believe it!

Good Luck! :)

Mrs. Doolittle 13.02.2015 11:57

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339899)
I have notions in german but i have to say that not enough to maintain a conversation or to write. It's a shame because i do speak six languages but no german at all. I am learning with my daughter's "homework", some cartoons and a website i have was recommended today.

I try my best though, i always ask them to speak to me in german because i understand most of the times, i reply in english or french and they usually understand me. But yet.. No, i do not speak german.

In a nutshell, landlords don't like complicated situations, and the fact that you cannot communicate with them in German is probably your biggest hurdle. No matter how complete your file is, they will choose someone who they can communicate with. It is just easier for them. For what you are looking for, there is plenty of competition. That is the reality.

If you just arrived here, the landlords might be more understanding. The longer you live and work here the greater the expectation is that you can communicate in German.

Even landlords who can speak English really prefer not to unless we are talking about very exclusive rental properties where there is very little competition, in fact, maybe none at all. I have seen landlords bring an English speaking person with them just so they can talk to a potential tenant !

Hence my reason for suggesting that you hire someone to search for you, accompany you to visits, and get you a flat.

Have any of your Swiss German colleagues offered to accompany you to a property viewing and let them do all the talking? Sometimes colleagues do that for one another. It really needs to be someone with fluent German.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339899)
And, do you think that it would be a good idea to make a list of the immobilien in this area and go to see them, present myself and give them a copy of all my documents? If a flat appears they might possibly remember my visit.. What do you think?

This is a complete waste of time. Most landlords cannot be bothered with this. For the very large firms you can email.

What about your current landlord? Many landlords would not even rent a one room apartment to a parent and child. (I understood you live in a studio - is that what you meant by one room?) Clearly they must be aware that you need a bigger flat? Is there nothing else in the building? Do they know any other property managers? Have you asked him or her to help you?

One other suggestion I have for you is to look for an apartment in a private home. This type of rental is not widely advertised on the internet but they exist. I have seen some very nice flats with owners who are really exceptionally helpful. It also might not be in central Luzern but there are some very nice parts of Lucerne and a situation like this might be more suited to your needs. This is a situation which would not suit everyone. Apartments which are part of a house may not be as private as some might like. But on the plus side, if you got lucky like we did, the owner of the apartment I rented years ago was a retired nurse and if one of the kids was sick I could go to work and she would look after them.

Some owners would be very happy having a mom and daughter living in a flat situation like this.

Somewhere out there is a flat for you. You only need one.

Guest 13.02.2015 12:13

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samaire13 (Post 2340111)
Yes, of course, but my advice is that if one way has been tried and tested and failed every time, it's maybe time to reconsider and change one's approach.

I can insist on finding the perfect 3.5-room apartment within a radius of 1000m of the lake of Zurich at a price of 2000, but can be sure that if something like that does open up, I certainly won't be the only one interested in it.

Or I can realize that my previous x attempts at finding something very specific have not worked out, then make a list of must-haves and nice-to-haves and adapt accordingly.

There's always things that are not absolutely vital, even if we at first don't think so. Most ist just convenience, rather than necessity. As with everything in life, one needs to set priorities. Here, there doesn't seem to be an immediate urgency in finding a new place, so it's either a question of patience, patience, patience or - well, see above.

That is genuine advice that is in no way meant to attack Cascabel. I can relate to the frustration, I've lived here long enough to know that the apartment hunt can be difficult and frustrating.

I see your points :)

I can also relate, and this very well, which is why I supplied OP with a translated motivation letter to follow her dreams.
Of course one can broaden their search region for a flat after being rejected a huge number of times and get lucky with a larger/cheaper flat which might not even be that much less convenient than the flat in the dream location - but if one wants to to follow their dreams, I say go for that unless it is vital to get an apartment ASAP due to financial reasons or other time-sensitive constraints.

I for one don't see how I could ever grow happy in a place where I didn't want to live with all my heart. Kids are adaptable, that's true, and I, like others here, also believe that OP's daughter wouldn't have as large a problem adapting to new surroundings and finding new friends as the OP fears.

But living somewhere isn't only about affordability, proximity to work, schools and shops, rather, in my opinion, it should be foremost about wanting to spend time there, wanting to build up a new life there, wanting to "feel at home" there.
If for the OP this place is Lucerne center and she doesn't have to move ASAP, I think OP should continue her search there.

I can imagine that, as you say, for OP it might be easier to find an apartment out in the suburbs due to her language abilities and the fierce competition, but I can also imagine that OP, having found a new flat, could get really downcast when she finds out that, maybe just a week after she moved in her new place, an apartment she previously applied to in Lucerne center would have been offered to her.

Life, and this includes apartment hunts, is all about making choices, and at one point one will have to make these choices (as to if she'll search in her preferred region or rather expand it), but I remember how I started out my flat hunt in my region of choice, got turned down for a boatload of flats, and after a looong time and with a decent amount of luck, I got my dream place. I know now just like I knew while hunting that any other region wouldn't cut it for me.
If you've fallen in love with a region, why move somewhere else knowing that you'll regret it forever? But on the other hand, why stick to one region if you know that it'll just be hard for a short while and that you're easily adaptable, and that even if you doubt your kid's ability to get used to the new region, you'll give it a chance in a new suburb before starting the hunt for a flat in your old region of choice after a year if she doesn't adapt within, say, a year?

Cascabel 13.02.2015 19:27

Re: Giving up..
 
Good evening,

Thank you all for your kind replies, and Glowjupiter for you translation, we have just arrived home and i need to organise everything but i will take the time to reply to all your good and assertive advices.

doropfiz 14.02.2015 11:39

Re: Giving up..
 
Cascabel

I admire you!

As you write, it feels to you like nothing's working out. And yet you make it plain that you are hardworking, and you are trying your best to sail a course that is the best for your daughter, and for yourself.

I think you've done well to ask for advice here. And as on all forums, some advice feels right, and other suggestions just don't seem to make sense, which stands to reason, as we all don't know your situation exactly.

I wish you courage and tenacity. And I hope that, between your job, your motherhood and your flat-search, you can find at least 10 minutes, once a day to put your feet up, and just be "off duty".

Guest 18.02.2015 11:22

Re: Giving up..
 
Any news, OP?

Karineland 18.02.2015 14:27

Re: Giving up..
 
I am also really sorry to hear about your struggle to find an apartment. Living in Switzerland can be difficult enough as an expat at times, and my husband is Swiss, which I think makes it easier for me in many ways.

I wanted to ask if you'd considered looking at a new build? I can imagine there could be many new builds going up in Lucern, and they're often a good way to "get in" to a nice apartment complex. We live in one in Solothurn, and were able to reserve the apartment without having to compete with other applicants. That being said, Solothurn is much smaller. However, competition, even here, is rather stiff.

Cascabel 20.02.2015 21:45

Re: Giving up..
 
Good evening..

Thank you very much for all your replies, kindness and good advices.. I did not entered the forum during these days because i needed to clarify my mind and give some thought..

And yet you are right when you say that i could change the neighborhood and the school and that this will certainly make my search easier and successful. I have been considering that option but i do not see it. There is more that makes me sticks to this school and neighborhood that i prefer not to share..

I will keep searching and trying and who knows, maybe there's a place for us somewhere around..

Thank you very much for being there.. :)

Cascabel 09.04.2015 23:26

Re: Giving up..
 
Hi everyone!

Back to explain my flat hunting adventures!

This one might seem incredible and, in fact, sounded incredible to the people that lived this story with me but yet is true.

Someone leaving a flat gave a 2 weeks short notice to the landlord and sent my application, the betreibungauszug and the resignation letter. The immobilien called and spoke to my boss for references and afterwards i missed a call from them as my mobile is in silence at work. The day after, the person leaving the flat and myself called the landlord and she asked me a copy of my permit. I sent it by fax straight away after the call.

My friends flat appeared the same afternoon on internet.. CHF 40.00 more expensive than the current price.

I called the immobilien today to check if they received my permit and the lady advised me that yes and that they needed to review the details, which means that if they receive any other aplication, he / she will be inmediately accepted and i will get my rejection letter.

It's quite hard not to take it personal, well, if you knew me maybe you would also not want to have me as a neighbour.. I have to confess that i try not to but if i see the opportunity i eat all the kids that crosses my path and sometimes i even hunt adults in isolated streets during the day.. Rooaaarrrrr!!!

Good night, sleep tight!!

:msntongue:

Guest 09.04.2015 23:46

Re: Giving up..
 
  • You don't yet have the rejection letter. Please keep a positive attitude, and avoid thinking "if they receive any other aplication, he / she will be immediately accepted and i will get my rejection letter".
  • Finding a flat in CH is hard; but not so hard. Is there anything that you're not being truthful about? For example, L-permit? Problems with police records or past debt?

McTAVGE 10.04.2015 09:17

Re: Giving up..
 
Put your last paragraph in German in a small add, wherever you might be allowed to place a small ad, and see what happens. Find a creative way to advertise your plea, people might enjoy the extra effort. It's like a job interview, you need to stand out and sell yourself.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2338959)
Hi everyone,

After two years searching for a bigger appartment in the center of Luzern, nothing has changed. I have sent no less that fifty aplications, with the corresponding updated betreibungauszug and it's costs, all the documents required, recommendation letters from my office, the parent's of my daughter's swiss friends and still nothing..

I called this morning to the Luzernerpensionkasse in order to visit an appartment that appeared yesterday night and the lady, that already met me in other occasions while showing other appartments for which i applied but was rejected, advised me that it was already rented.. The add appeared around 18.00PM, i called at 08.40AM today.. and the flat is already gone..

I have to say that today i feel really, really bad.. I am a well educated person, with a PhD in Biochemistry, single mother of a 5 years old girl, i have a good salary, non smoker, i only drink socially, i enjoy reading, nerd computer games, cooking sometimes,.. and i am only seeking a bigger appartment in order to be able to have a proper life with my daughter, work, help her with her homework, invite from time to time her friends to spend the afternoon with us.. but i am always rejected.. I used to be strong but today, today i feel total and completely defeated..



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