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-   -   Giving up.. (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/227655-giving-up.html)

Cascabel 11.02.2015 14:55

Giving up..
 
Hi everyone,

After two years searching for a bigger appartment in the center of Luzern, nothing has changed. I have sent no less that fifty aplications, with the corresponding updated betreibungauszug and it's costs, all the documents required, recommendation letters from my office, the parent's of my daughter's swiss friends and still nothing..

I called this morning to the Luzernerpensionkasse in order to visit an appartment that appeared yesterday night and the lady, that already met me in other occasions while showing other appartments for which i applied but was rejected, advised me that it was already rented.. The add appeared around 18.00PM, i called at 08.40AM today.. and the flat is already gone..

I have to say that today i feel really, really bad.. I am a well educated person, with a PhD in Biochemistry, single mother of a 5 years old girl, i have a good salary, non smoker, i only drink socially, i enjoy reading, nerd computer games, cooking sometimes,.. and i am only seeking a bigger appartment in order to be able to have a proper life with my daughter, work, help her with her homework, invite from time to time her friends to spend the afternoon with us.. but i am always rejected.. I used to be strong but today, today i feel total and completely defeated..

The_Love_Doctor 11.02.2015 14:59

Re: Giving up..
 
Don't give up...

Soon is the big moving date of March + April. Keep looking. If you give up now the next available opportunity is September / October.

MidfieldGeneral 11.02.2015 15:01

Re: Giving up..
 
+1

Don't give up an hopefully you can find a new flat!

Good Luck!:)

Papa Goose 11.02.2015 15:15

Re: Giving up..
 
It sounds like it isn't personal (although hard not to feel like it is) and maybe in the pecking order a single parent isn't as attractive a tenant as dink's or sink's, so maybe you are already at a disadvantage. It probably isn't what you want to hear but if it's a landlords market, then the best option is to look slightly further a field, does it have to be central Luzern?.

Cascabel 11.02.2015 15:33

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Goose (Post 2338978)
It sounds like it isn't personal (although hard not to feel like it is) and maybe in the pecking order a single parent isn't as attractive a tenant as dink's or sink's, so maybe you are already at a disadvantage. It probably isn't what you want to hear but if it's a landlords market, then the best option is to look slightly further a field, does it have to be central Luzern?.

I would not mind to change the neighborhood but then they will change my daughter's school and i cannot make her pass through more stressful changes..

And yes, at the very begining i tried not to take it personal.. They are running a business and they make the rules of their business.. But still..

Thank you for your comments and support..

JanaCZE 11.02.2015 15:34

Re: Giving up..
 
Dont give up. As mentioned earlier, March will be the moving time, so there shall be more property on the market.
When i needed to find a new flat some time ago, i was also getting very frustrated when every application i sent got rejected. Back then, with L permit only, it looked almost impossible to get something. But eventually i got a flat.
I hope you will be able to find a new nice flat for your and your daughter very soon.
Fingers crossed and good luck!

olygirl 11.02.2015 15:36

Re: Giving up..
 
Have you told people about your search? If not, let people, especially locals, know you're looking. Sometimes it helps to find something through connections.

amogles 11.02.2015 15:41

Re: Giving up..
 
One useful trick that i was taught by Swiss friends is to not be passive.

So when viewing the appartment, make sure you chat with the landlord so he remembers you and leave a positive impression. Then phone the following day and explain how you simply love that appartment and that its absolutely perfect for you. Even if they promise to call you back, ignore that and call them anyway. It's a bit like applying for a job or trying to get somewhere in the dating scene. Being passive is usually not the right strategy. How is the landlord going to tell from your application form that you're such a wonderful person and the perfect tenant? Be someone and be noticed.

I'd been looking for an appartment for months and was giving up hope when i got that advice. Guess what. I got the very next appartment I looked at.

Cascabel 11.02.2015 16:06

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 2339003)
One useful trick that i was taught by Swiss friends is to not be passive.

So when viewing the appartment, make sure you chat with the landlord so he remembers you and leave a positive impression. Then phone the following day and explain how you simply love that appartment and that its absolutely perfect for you. Even if they promise to call you back, ignore that and call them anyway. It's a bit like applying for a job or trying to get somewhere in the dating scene. Being passive is usually not the right strategy. How is the landlord going to tell from your application form that you're such a wonderful person and the perfect tenant? Be someone and be noticed.

I'd been looking for an appartment for months and was giving up hope when i got that advice. Guess what. I got the very next appartment I looked at.

Good afternoon,

Thank you very much for this advice. I always stay and try to speak either to the immobilien person's, either to the person living in the flat but still no luck.

All my entourage knows that i am searching for an appartment, all my daughter's parents, the teachers, the betreuung's carers as well, in my job they print me recommendation letters but i see that they have started to "pff.. it's her again.."

I will see how long i can stand this situation but i have started to think to go back to my country.. This might not have been the right choice to raise my daughter..

AlreadyPacked 11.02.2015 16:12

Re: Giving up..
 
I thought that they gave preferance to people with children.

miniMia 11.02.2015 16:17

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2338989)
I would not mind to change the neighborhood but then they will change my daughter's school and i cannot make her pass through more stressful changes..

And yes, at the very begining i tried not to take it personal.. They are running a business and they make the rules of their business.. But still..

Thank you for your comments and support..

I know how you feel. I've been looking for a flat, any flat! and I'm always amazed that the flat is gone or there are already 20 people who have applied one day after the ad is up. In my case I know it's because I've been looking at lower price ranges. I've had to up my price to get an apartment and I KNOW I'm paying too much for it. Sigh.

My only suggestion for you is for you to stress the fact that you have a child in the school district you are looking in. I lost an apartment just for that reason. It was out in a village, but still, the management company told me they choose the family with the child at the near by school so that the child could stay in school.

If you are not stressing that point already, start doing so.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339014)
Good afternoon,

Thank you very much for this advice. I always stay and try to speak either to the immobilien person's, either to the person living in the flat but still no luck.

All my entourage knows that i am searching for an appartment, all my daughter's parents, the teachers, the betreuung's carers as well, in my job they print me recommendation letters but i see that they have started to "pff.. it's her again.."

I will see how long i can stand this situation but i have started to think to go back to my country.. This might not have been the right choice to raise my daughter..

Recommendation letters? Really? Is that needed? Are you maybe giving them too much paper work?

Anyway, if you do need letters of recommendation ask them not to be dated or use the same ones. You don't need a new one for every application.

Macer 11.02.2015 16:27

Re: Giving up..
 
It probably is not an option, but I will say it anyway. have you considered trying to buy rather than rent? Just a thought...

Guest 11.02.2015 16:31

Re: Giving up..
 
That sounds a bit like my job search of 2012. I made countless applications, also got some interviews, but no offers! Hey, but in the end, you only need one job/apartment. So keep a positive attitude.

1. Introspect: Are you making some rookie mistakes? Get your application reviewed. Apply within 25-35% of your net salary bracket. Get all those solvency letters, get a co-applicant, if necessary. Smoker? Musician? Party lover? Don't lie about it, but also don't make it too obvious.

2. Network: somebody covered this point already.

3. Persist: follow up, call up, remind - just as you would pester your HR department to "approve" something. You are the guy/gal in need. Swallow your ego and say, please please.. until the person just does it even if it's to get rid of you.

3Wishes 11.02.2015 16:50

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2338959)
...two years searching for a bigger appartment in the center of Luzern...

In addition to what others have said above, is it possible you're searching for a flat that's too large? Sounds silly but if it's "only" you and your daughter and you're applying for a place with 3 bedrooms the landlords may feel it best to give to a larger family with more children. I have no idea what you've been looking for so I could be way off-base. It's just a thought. Good luck!:)

Cascabel 11.02.2015 18:12

Re: Giving up..
 
Thank you Makas.. This are very positive and persistent tips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Wishes (Post 2339051)
In addition to what others have said above, is it possible you're searching for a flat that's too large? Sounds silly but if it's "only" you and your daughter and you're applying for a place with 3 bedrooms the landlords may feel it best to give to a larger family with more children. I have no idea what you've been looking for so I could be way off-base. It's just a thought. Good luck!:)

I applied for all the 2 rooms flat, 2.5 and 3 rooms flats. More would be too much for me and i am willing to pay until CHF 1'400.00, CHF 1'500.00. There are very nice flats in this area for this price. I can say that i was rejected from 2 i visited, the same re-appeared a few months later on Comparis and Tutti, i re-applied and was re-rejected.

This might sound crazy and unreal, but it's true.. After what happened today i could not contain the tears.. It cannot be true.. This cannot be happening to me or to anybody.. 2 years working and searching and with a kind and yes, i focus on the fact that i already know the neighborhood and that i work in the same area, and that my daughter is attending this neighbourhood kindergarten... But nothing.. i undersand their policy of "Swiss people first" but.. that's incredible.

:msnsad::msnsad:

Litz 11.02.2015 18:15

Re: Giving up..
 
My hearts goes out to you and I send you a lot of positive energy in your search.
1) As amogles has pointed out make effort to chat with the land lord . Maybe you are not chatting enough. We had this problem. I realized my quiet husband was not impressing anyone with just simple handshake and then he would just look around the place.
When we went as a family, I made a lot if effort to chat. Even now the landlord calls on my mobile to discuss apartment related stuff..our landlord(s) are a couple ..mostly the lady calls me.

2) if possible while applying write a letter on how you and your daughter would be delighted to stay in the said appartment .

3) include a pic of you and your daughter ... As one of my friend did . They did not get the same apartment , but they were contacted first when another one became available.

4) you can put a wanted apartment notice at the local shopping center. We have one at COOP near my apartment and I keep seeing lot of such wanted and to let adverts.

All the best !!!

Cascabel 11.02.2015 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by miniMia (Post 2339025)
I know how you feel. I've been looking for a flat, any flat! and I'm always amazed that the flat is gone or there are already 20 people who have applied one day after the ad is up. In my case I know it's because I've been looking at lower price ranges. I've had to up my price to get an apartment and I KNOW I'm paying too much for it. Sigh.

My only suggestion for you is for you to stress the fact that you have a child in the school district you are looking in. I lost an apartment just for that reason. It was out in a village, but still, the management company told me they choose the family with the child at the near by school so that the child could stay in school.

If you are not stressing that point already, start doing so.




Recommendation letters? Really? Is that needed? Are you maybe giving them too much paper work?

Anyway, if you do need letters of recommendation ask them not to be dated or use the same ones. You don't need a new one for every application.

Thank you very, very much for your comment. I am truly sorry you were rejected because a family requested it.. It is also unfair and puts single individuals in a bad position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litz (Post 2339107)
My hearts goes out to you and I send you a lot of positive energy in your search.
1) As amogles has pointed out make effort to chat with the land lord . Maybe you are not chatting enough. We had this problem. I realized my quiet husband was not impressing anyone with just simple handshake and then he would just look around the place.
When we went as a family, I made a lot if effort to chat. Even now the landlord calls on my mobile to discuss apartment related stuff..our landlord(s) are a couple ..mostly the lady calls me.

2) if possible while applying write a letter on how you and your daughter would be delighted to stay in the said appartment .

3) include a pic of you and your daughter ... As one of my friend did . They did not get the same apartment , but they were contacted first when another one became available.

4) you can put a wanted apartment notice at the local shopping center. We have one at COOP near my apartment and I keep seeing lot of such wanted and to let adverts.

All the best !!!

Thank you a lot Litz for your comment. I will, i will put the effort to chat more and to try to impress them during the visit and will check the boards of the shoping centers, i have never noticed them actually..

Faltrad 11.02.2015 18:40

Re: Giving up..
 
If you only want bigger, you need somebody who wants to downsize in the same area. Advertise a flat exchange. Not easy, I know.

miniMia 11.02.2015 18:41

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339110)
Thank you very, very much for your comment. I am truly sorry you were rejected because a family requested it.. It is also unfair and puts single individuals in a bad position.

Oh. You're sweet. :) It's best for the child. Like you are trying to do. So I'm ok with it.

It's tough out there! And I know at that price level in my area there is FIERCE competition. Just yesterday I was told that a flat on the 5th floor without an elevator was taken on the first day of showing. 5th floor.... no elevator?! The shocking thing was that even *I* was considering it. LOL

Lots of management companies have this weird thing about apartments being "appropriate". For the best chances, you should really only be looking for three pcs apartments that are no more than 30% of your income, but not too low either, not less than about 20%. One bed for you and one for you daughter. That for them is appropriate.

Now you need to start asking for help from the professionals. When you call/see them, tell them what you are looking for and what you constraints are (stressing the school thing). Eventually you are going to have to ask them what you could be doing wrong. Don't tell them you've been looking for 2 years, but say "a long time". Ask them for advice. People love to be asked for their advice, to be seen as experts in their field.

Good luck! And I know it doesn't help but "keep your chin up"! It will eventually work out.

Guest 11.02.2015 18:49

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Litz (Post 2339107)
They did not get the same apartment , but they were contacted first when another one became available.

This. OP, when you get rejected for an apartment, make sure to ask the agency for the reason and ask them to put you on their waiting list while reiterating your reasons as to why you'd like to rent from them. Many agencies have those lists and they will first consider people on those lists rather than people who apply to adverts on homegate etc.

amogles 11.02.2015 18:57

Re: Giving up..
 
what the other said.

Also, have you tried at any Genossenschaften?

They are not for profit and often socially inclined and being a single mother with a young daughter may tick the right boxes. Some don't advertise appartments but work purely from waiting lists. You don't need to be poor or anything to live in a Genossenschaft. On the contrary, some have very nice appartments.

Phil_MCR 11.02.2015 19:24

Re: Giving up..
 
congratulations on the decision to give up! now you have much more free time and less stress to deal with. plus you can probably save money by not moving into a bigger place!

but maybe some better opportunities will anyway come to you when you are not looking...

doropfiz 11.02.2015 20:25

Re: Giving up..
 
Cascabel, I really feel for you! Doing the rounds of looking for an appartment can be totally gruelling!

Others have suggested putting a photo of yourself on the application. I agree. And choose a plain passport-size photo but not necessarily as strict/serious as a passport photo. On that, I'd suggest you wear a shirt or blouse with a collar (rather than a T-shirt) but no jacket or blazer, no cleavage, nothing flashy, no "big" hair, not too much make-up. The "ideal" tenant could be one who causes no trouble, looks reasonable and sane, and who is approachable. Therefore, I recommend looking straight at the camera, a friendly smile but no laugh, with the kind of interested expression in your eyes that shows you can listen and would gladly help. That may sound over-the-top, but I think a good photo can positively influence people's decisions about you.

I also agree about not being passive, and phoning the person up the next day, to say you've considered the flat, and the journey to school and work, and you know they probably have many applicants, but you would like to confirm that you're very, very interested. Before making the call, check the date (rental start) they've advertised, and then say that date would work well for you. To be able to do this, when you are in the flat viewing, try to get the landlord/decision-maker's direct telephone number and email address, if possible, but at least be sure of his/her name.

Another aspect: When you are talking to the person showing the flat, and to the agents, are you speaking German? If so, good! If not, then it might be worth your while practicing this kind of conversation with a Swiss person. You know, even if you speak only a little German in general, with a weekend's worth of determination it might be possible to memorise the vocabulary and phrases for this specific interaction. Include some sentences about your learning German. If your daughter is attending a local Swiss government school, then it's a plus to mention that her German is fluent. If you speak no German at all, then at least practice being able to say these sentences in German: "Excuse me, do you speak English, please?" and: "I'm sorry, I don't speak German, but I'm learning."
Some landlords favour not so much Swiss people but people who can speak the local language, so that the neighbours can peacefully make arrangements with one another about sharing the laundry, parking the bicycles, etc., and so the tenants will understand letters from the landlord.

Another thought about your daughter: she is young, and unless she has a particular disability or inhibition, she will probably adapt to a change. Most children do.

You say you are unwilling to take her out of her school to move to a flat a bit further away, and yet you are also considering leaving Switzerland altogether. To my ears, this kind of discrepancy from an educated person as you are, sounds like you are totally exhausted and terribly, terribly disappointed. Yes, I think you must be feeling really disheartened. Once, when I reached that point during a flat-hunt, I gave up (the name of your thread) the search for a flat for a few months. I just decided to accept where I was living and not even to look at the ads, not to apply for anything, just to give my poor weary mind a break from it all. I promised myself it would be like a holiday from that topic, and I would go back and look again, later, (I set a date for myself) when I had more energy. Of course, I don't know your situation, and maybe doing that wouldn't be appropriate for you, but for me, taking that break probably saved my sanity at the time.

I wish you courage!

Cascabel 11.02.2015 21:06

Re: Giving up..
 
I really do not know how to thank you all for your comments..

And Doropfiz, you have just described my actual feelings.. i stopped looking in November, and started again this month, 3 aplications rejected in 10 days, a call made and no opportunity to even visit the flat.. I am exhausted.. I had to leave work today because i could not focus on my job during he morning. This call and the way this person, that knows me and saw me handing to her for three times all my dossier, told me that the flat was gone... completely destroyed me today. It was like she was telling me "i already told you three times no, what makes you think that you will have a yes this time?"

I started crying at my desk and i needed to leave because i needed to be able to compound myself again before taking my daughter this afternoon to get some "marronis" as i promised her this morning.

I thank you for all the tips, all positive and focused on the objective, but as per today i do not see myself checking any add or visiting an appartment again.

I am not a quiter, i have never had all the problems i am encountering here and i do not know what i will do the next weeks but I have already printed and signed my resignation letter as of February 27. I only hope to be a bit better tomorrow..

Phil_MCR 11.02.2015 21:37

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2338959)
The add appeared around 18.00PM, i called at 08.40AM today.. and the flat is already gone..

It normally helps to be the first person to see the flat and first person to reply. A good flat shown at 6pm in the evening will be gone by 6.15pm - unless you are lucky, you have no chance the next day.

If you are serious, be the first to view and the first to provide fully completed package of forms, debt extract, employer confirmation, etc.

Puhutes 11.02.2015 22:00

Re: Giving up..
 
Agree with another poster about his comment "don't be passive"
I was 7 months pregnant and living in a 1 room apartment with my husband and I was getting so despressed and desperate to find something, ANYTHING, bigger than 10sq.m... It got the point where I would search 2-3 times a day any and all new listing on compairs, local supermarket boards, newspapers, etc. I made a spreadsheet on my computer and immediately called every single new place that opened up. It went from visiting and being rejected a few times a week... to a few times a day. And after about 40 visits in 1 week, we finally got a new place together (before the baby arrived :msnshock: ) Very difficult being new in a foreign land and very pregnant. Lots of places really prefer the money come in and the new neighbours never be heard. Good luck and chin up! *high5*

Mrs. Doolittle 11.02.2015 22:01

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339210)
I am not a quiter, i have never had all the problems i am encountering here and i do not know what i will do the next weeks but I have already printed and signed my resignation letter as of February 27. I only hope to be a bit better tomorrow..

I have managed relocations in Luzern and this is not an easy place to find a flat, particularly if you want to live in central Luzern, as many do.

The minimum flat size you should be applying for is 3 rooms. Given the way rooms are counted, that means there are at least 2 bedrooms. Anything smaller and you are going to be rejected. In Luzern there are a lot of older buildings with apartments with strange layouts. These are sometimes on the top floor of buildings with no lift. There might be a loft area which can be used for a sleeping room and this could also be considered a bedroom if there is some privacy from the living area.

Is the ratio of rent to income you are comfortable paying far less than landlords usually work with? If so, then you need to examine this.

I cannot tell you how many times I have met clients in your shoes, desperately seeking housing, very frustrated, asking themselves why they came here and ready to head home. I understand how you feel. My advice to you is to hire a relocation firm to find you a flat. It is not that they are magicians, but it is about knowing how to present clients and their applications and get them approved. Landlords treat relocation professionals completely differently than individuals.

There are several firms covering the Luzern area. Perhaps your employer has used the services of such a firm? It cannot hurt to ask HR. Whatever you do, negotiate a fee payable only on a successful search.

I wish you all the very best of luck and while I am not in a position to help you, if you send me a PM with your email I will stay in touch. I have a lot of contacts in the Luzern region.

Guest 11.02.2015 22:01

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339210)
I really do not know how to thank you all for your comments..

And Doropfiz, you have just described my actual feelings.. i stopped looking in November, and started again this month, 3 aplications rejected in 10 days, a call made and no opportunity to even visit the flat.. I am exhausted.. I had to leave work today because i could not focus on my job during he morning. This call and the way this person, that knows me and saw me handing to her for three times all my dossier, told me that the flat was gone... completely destroyed me today. It was like she was telling me "i already told you three times no, what makes you think that you will have a yes this time?"

I started crying at my desk and i needed to leave because i needed to be able to compound myself again before taking my daughter this afternoon to get some "marronis" as i promised her this morning.

I thank you for all the tips, all positive and focused on the objective, but as per today i do not see myself checking any add or visiting an appartment again.

I am not a quiter, i have never had all the problems i am encountering here and i do not know what i will do the next weeks but I have already printed and signed my resignation letter as of February 27. I only hope to be a bit better tomorrow..

I know it's easier said than done, but good on you for not being a quitter!!!

An idea for future applications:

Scan all your documents (Betreibungsregisterauszug, permit etc.) as single documents and write a template motivation letter for an apartment in such a way that when an ad comes up, all you have to do is fill in the info which is specific to the apartment (e.g. number of rooms, apartment location, special things about the apartment like balcony etc.)

E.g.

"Application for [number]-room apartment in [location]

Dear [name of agent]

I am applying for the [number of rooms]-room apartment in [location] because my daughter [name] and I ([age, profession, non-smoker, type of permit]) are looking for an apartment due to [reason].
The viewing today [date of viewing] with [name of tenant/agent present at viewing] convinced me that your apartment suits us perfectly because [school district, nice balcony, nice view, suitable public transport stops etc.].

I am a [insert positive thing about you] person and my daughter is a [insert positive thing about her] child. You are welcome to contact [your employer] and [your last landlord] for references under [phone number/e-mail].
I am confident I and my daughter would be a good fit for your flat in [location].

Therefore I would be ever so glad if you were to consider us for your flat. I hope to hear from you soon.

Sincerely
[your name]"

When an ad comes up, call agencies (if late in the evening, e-mail immediately) and ask for a viewing at the next possible date.
Go to the viewing in nice clothes and in a good mood. Take notes of what you like best in the apartment (e.g. floor in living room, sunny balcony, pet-friendliness etc.), ask some questions (e.g. how many months deposit does the landlord require, are there kids in the building etc.) get the present tenant's/agent's name (make sure you get the correct spelling, business card if possible) and contact details and the Anmeldeformular (form which agencies supply to find out more about prospective tenants), and head home.

Now you have to be quick because whoever is quicker and makes the better impression gets the apartment.
Go straight to your motivation letter and enter the info corresponding to the flat in question in the motivation letter [nice balcony, number of rooms etc.]. Make several copies of the blank (!) Anmeldeformular (you won't want crossings-out/errors on it) and fill in the requested information. Scan the nicest written form. Save all documents (Motivation letter first, agency's form second, Betreibungsauszug third and so forth) as a single PDF document.

E-mail the lot to the agency immediately.

If you'd like a translation of the motivation letter drafted above in German, I'm sure someone on EF can help you or I can do it for you and send you a PM.

doropfiz 11.02.2015 22:35

Re: Giving up..
 
Wow, glowjupiter, I gotta love your generosity! Thank you, it's good for the soul!

Flaui 11.02.2015 22:38

Re: Giving up..
 
There is a will, there is a way! Fight for you and your daughter for a better life!

I myself experienced a similar situation. Before our move to Zug, we had applied many flats for over a year. We started as soon as we knew that I was pregnant and we lived in a 2.5 rooms flat so there was a need for a bigger flat. We had a dog n a few cats and we only applied for flats that allowed pets.

Although they said all pets friendly but it turned out every single flat we applied, they rejected us, it is hard not to think that the rejection was due to our dog. So I had to make a decision between my 10yo dog which I raised since puppy and my unborn baby. Sadly I was forced to make such hard decision and as soon as we declared on the application that we don't have a dog, we got a flat!!!! I was happy but also mad! And the most ironic thing is, there are many dogs in my building!!!! I can't tell you how bad I feel when I had to give up my dog for my baby and I always feel some sort of regrets towards him. And I know I won't have a dog again after this.

So don't give up, I thought it was personal too and felt hopeless after over of a year on trying, but sometimes it is just unlucky as well. Look for family /kids friendly area, it might be easier for you to get the flat! Good luck! :)

MsWorWoo 11.02.2015 22:39

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlreadyPacked (Post 2339019)
I thought that they gave preferance to people with children.

In my limited experience (trying to get a bigger flat) they seem to give preference to couples with children. Problem with us single mums is that we are only two people looking for a 3.5 or 4 zimmer, we always lose out to three people, even though both need the same number of bedrooms. I have even see adverts that specify married with children will be given preference.
Good luck OP, I know what it's like to feel embarrised to invite your kid's friends over because of the lack of space. But spring is comming which means picnics etc,

doropfiz 11.02.2015 22:51

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cascabel (Post 2339210)
I am not a quiter, i have never had all the problems i am encountering here and i do not know what i will do the next weeks but I have already printed and signed my resignation letter as of February 27. I only hope to be a bit better tomorrow..



Please Cascabel, what does this mean? Do you mean you've given notice on your current FLAT, or do you mean you've resigned from your JOB (maybe intending to leave Switzerland)?


Please, please, please, if you haven't already sent off that letter, don't!
If you have already sent it off, my feeling is that you should immediately take whatever steps you can to withdraw it.


Why?
Because everything you write tells me that you're exhausted, desperate, frustrated, weepy, a bit angry, probably on a general down trip about being foreign in Switzerland. That happens. And I guess the whole tedious flat-search, as a single mother, is probably making you feel something along the lines of lonely and unwanted.


Of course I don't know you, and can't possibly know if what I'm presuming here is accurate. But since you affirm that what I wrote before is in the general direction of understanding you, I dare to write this: My guess is that you are simply FAR TOO WEARY for taking any serious decision today.


I don't know if it is the job or the flat you mean in your letter as of the 27th February.
  • If you don't have another FLAT to go to, you should not be giving notice on the one you've got.
  • Even if you do have another JOB to go to, you should probably not be resigning the one you have until you've at least had a few nights' sleep.
You're not a quitter, and major changes should be done only when more rested than you feel this evening. Please, try to get some sleep.

Then tomorrow or the next day, you could re-read this thread and pick out any suggestions you haven't yet implemented (e.g. looking on the notice-boards at Coop and Migros, or paying an agent) and whether these could work for you. You might also adapt glowjupiter's draft letter as it applies to you, and if you need something along the lines she suggests, take her up on her very kind offer.


For tonight, though, please try to sleep, (maybe with a hot-waterbottle, or a cuddly blanket) so you can be clearer to take better decisions.


In spite of the fact you've had a really horrible day, I wish you, in as much as possible, a good night.

camelitos 11.02.2015 23:48

Re: Giving up..
 
Are you registered in any Wohnungsgenossenschaft yet?
I know that in zürich it is possible to be in a genossenschaft even if you're not living in one of their flats but you also get the ads which are often not out in public.
If there is a genossenschaft with appartments in your area, it might be worth becoming a member if that's possible.

In a genossenschaft you also have better chances if you have a child.

amogles 12.02.2015 10:03

Re: Giving up..
 
What others have said about language.

Remember that the landlord may not be good at English. Even if you think he's understanding you perfectly, that feeling may not be mutual. Many Swiss underestimate their own ability to communicate in English and feel vulnerable when they have to speak it. Maybe he's not letting the flat to you because he's concerned misunderstandings and difficulties in communication may arise.

I don't know how good your German is, but if it is at all usable, use it and be confident in it. Don't worry about making mistakes. Most Swiss are extremely tolerant when it comes to that. But what matters is that the landlord sees he can communicate with you if need be and there won't be misunderstandings.

Mrs. Doolittle 12.02.2015 11:41

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaui (Post 2339270)
There is a will, there is a way! Fight for you and your daughter for a better life!

I myself experienced a similar situation. Before our move to Zug, we had applied many flats for over a year. We started as soon as we knew that I was pregnant and we lived in a 2.5 rooms flat so there was a need for a bigger flat. We had a dog n a few cats and we only applied for flats that allowed pets.

Although they said all pets friendly but it turned out every single flat we applied, they rejected us, it is hard not to think that the rejection was due to our dog. So I had to make a decision between my 10yo dog which I raised since puppy and my unborn baby. Sadly I was forced to make such hard decision and as soon as we declared on the application that we don't have a dog, we got a flat!!!! I was happy but also mad! And the most ironic thing is, there are many dogs in my building!!!! I can't tell you how bad I feel when I had to give up my dog for my baby and I always feel some sort of regrets towards him. And I know I won't have a dog again after this.

So don't give up, I thought it was personal too and felt hopeless after over of a year on trying, but sometimes it is just unlucky as well. Look for family /kids friendly area, it might be easier for you to get the flat! Good luck! :)

Not sure you are in a position to be giving advice. Just as you looked for "pet friendly", you found it was not. So you gave up your dog but it sounds as though you kept your cats. I know plenty of landlords who will not allow cats but a 10 year old dog would be fine. Sometimes it is not about what pet but how many pets.

So if the OP looks for child-friendly, what if it really isn't? What is she going to do then?

I don't think your situation is similar at all to that of the OP. Considering there are dogs in your building, you really let the landlord intimidate you.

Papa Goose 12.02.2015 12:02

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaui (Post 2339270)
There is a will, there is a way! Fight for you and your daughter for a better life!

I myself experienced a similar situation. Before our move to Zug, we had applied many flats for over a year. We started as soon as we knew that I was pregnant and we lived in a 2.5 rooms flat so there was a need for a bigger flat. We had a dog n a few cats and we only applied for flats that allowed pets.

Although they said all pets friendly but it turned out every single flat we applied, they rejected us, it is hard not to think that the rejection was due to our dog. So I had to make a decision between my 10yo dog which I raised since puppy and my unborn baby. Sadly I was forced to make such hard decision and as soon as we declared on the application that we don't have a dog, we got a flat!!!! I was happy but also mad! And the most ironic thing is, there are many dogs in my building!!!! I can't tell you how bad I feel when I had to give up my dog for my baby and I always feel some sort of regrets towards him. And I know I won't have a dog again after this.

So don't give up, I thought it was personal too and felt hopeless after over of a year on trying, but sometimes it is just unlucky as well. Look for family /kids friendly area, it might be easier for you to get the flat! Good luck! :)

I'm not sure how you make a comparison, but I can tell you that finding and apartment with a dog is not a prohibiting factor ... if you look in the right places. Do we live back in Zug again YES, do we have a dog No we have 3. We have applied for 4 apartment in total in 6 years (can't count the company apartment) and we and our dogs have been happy in 3 of them. So a poor dog get the dunt because of him (you say), not maybe the "few cats" contributed, or the area you were looking and the suitability for your menagerie. We looked at an apartment in Baar that accepted pets, but would not take anymore dogs as they felt that there were enough in the building, so we jogged on, dumping the dogs never crossed our minds.

Guest 12.02.2015 12:59

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaui (Post 2339270)
There is a will, there is a way! Fight for you and your daughter for a better life!

I myself experienced a similar situation. Before our move to Zug, we had applied many flats for over a year. We started as soon as we knew that I was pregnant and we lived in a 2.5 rooms flat so there was a need for a bigger flat. We had a dog n a few cats and we only applied for flats that allowed pets.

Although they said all pets friendly but it turned out every single flat we applied, they rejected us, it is hard not to think that the rejection was due to our dog. So I had to make a decision between my 10yo dog which I raised since puppy and my unborn baby. Sadly I was forced to make such hard decision and as soon as we declared on the application that we don't have a dog, we got a flat!!!! I was happy but also mad! And the most ironic thing is, there are many dogs in my building!!!! I can't tell you how bad I feel when I had to give up my dog for my baby and I always feel some sort of regrets towards him. And I know I won't have a dog again after this.

So don't give up, I thought it was personal too and felt hopeless after over of a year on trying, but sometimes it is just unlucky as well. Look for family /kids friendly area, it might be easier for you to get the flat! Good luck! :)

If one wants to take their pets into a new apartment, I'd recommend calling (not e-mailing, that's too impersonal) the agency as soon as you see the ad and mentioning which animals you plan to keep in the new apartment while you ask for a date for the viewing. That way you can get info regarding the viewing and get to know if prospective agencies/landlords are appreciative of your pets.

E.g. say "I saw your ad for apartment so and so in so and so, I'm very interested in viewing it. As I have [number of] [type of pet] and they are [positive attribute about your pet], I also wanted to inquire if you'd permit them in your flat."
Once you get the answer, you can then decide if you're still interested in the flat and if you would even bother going to a viewing. That way you won't waste your time on a viewing/get your hopes up about getting a flat only to find out later that the landlord/agency don't want your pet in their flat.

It can also be very helpful to mention that you are willing to sign something like the appendix to rental contracts for residential properties regarding pets from IEMT if the agency/landlord requests it.

Of course, not mentioning pets until you receive the application form is also an option, but if you want less hassle it is better to mention pets from the get-go.

Also know that this (mentioning pets) is only necessary for those pets which can't be kept without the landlord's/agency's permission. I.e. you don't need to mention guinea pigs, hamsters, ornamental fish, birds etc. See the list of these pets in the link I posted above under no. 1.

Flaui 12.02.2015 15:46

Re: Giving up..
 
Just to clear a few things. My dog was rehome to a nice lady. So I know he is in good hands. It's not like we just abandoned him to some animal shelter to die.

We could wait I duno for how long till we get the flat that's big enough for us n the baby n the dog n cat or if we ever get one. but my baby was growing fast , we were still in the 2.5rms flat when he was 6mo but we can't always share the bed with him! He needed his own bed n room so I had to give up my dog.

We sent out many applications and yet all rejected when we declared we had a dog. And the first time we applied n said no dog we got time flat. P. S. We always went to see the flats first then applied it n declared we have dog n cats on the application, we never do emails. I duno how others find it in Zug but getting a flat that is in good size for a family as well as affordable n yet not too remote as I can't drive. It is just slightly less difficult than wining a lottery .

And I don't need others to tell me what is right or wrong, we simply did what we thought was the best for us at the time, we have regrets n we are the ones to live with it. People should not assume and judge if they don't know anything and they were not in our situation.

Besides, I do not mean to compare her situation to mine, I simply said that I understand how frustrating it is being rejected all the time just becos we are not the perfect ideal applicants in their eyes n hope she won't give up too easily n wish her all the best. Not giving her any advice from my point. Just a bit of encouragement n sympathy. People should focus on her post, not mine.

Guest 12.02.2015 16:25

Re: Giving up..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaui (Post 2339732)
Just to clear a few things. My dog was rehome to a nice lady. So I know he is in good hands. It's not like we just abandoned him to some animal shelter to die.

We could wait I duno for how long till we get the flat that's big enough for us n the baby n the dog n cat or if we ever get one. but my baby was growing fast , we were still in the 2.5rms flat when he was 6mo but we can't always share the bed with him! He needed his own bed n room so I had to give up my dog.

We sent out many applications and yet all rejected when we declared we had a dog. And the first time we applied n said no dog we got time flat. P. S. We always went to see the flats first then applied it n declared we have dog n cats on the application, we never do emails. I duno how others find it in Zug but getting a flat that is in good size for a family as well as affordable n yet not too remote as I can't drive. It is just slightly less difficult than wining a lottery .

And I don't need others to tell me what is right or wrong, we simply did what we thought was the best for us at the time, we have regrets n we are the ones to live with it. People should not assume and judge if they don't know anything and they were not in our situation.

Besides, I do not mean to compare her situation to mine, I simply said that I understand how frustrating it is being rejected all the time just becos we are not the perfect ideal applicants in their eyes n hope she won't give up too easily n wish her all the best. Not giving her any advice from my point. Just a bit of encouragement n sympathy. People should focus on her post, not mine.

Jeepers, I think someone got off on the wrong foot here.
I don't think anyone was trying to imply that you abandoned your dog, just that you possibly could've kept him if you'd searched in a slightly different manner/for longer. It is understandable that you want to be supportive of OP by saying that you understand her situation and wish her luck. But the thing is, posters cannot direct where threads head off to, so our replying to the aspect of you not keeping your dog in your post instead of your support of the OP is something you'll have to get used to here. I've had some posts and threads of mine derail too, it's normal.

By the way, using proper English instead of txtspk would really help legibility of your post.


OP, has anything new happened yet? Would you like a translation of the motivation letter?

Samaire13 12.02.2015 16:48

Re: Giving up..
 
In none of the larger cities is it easy to find an apartment, which is why I honestly don't get why people keep insisting on living in the center of pretty much any city in this country. It's not like the places are massive, it would often be SO much easier to just look into one of the suburbs, which really, in Lucerne, are basically right there anway and you don't even realize you're leaving the city. And in no place is the commute from a suburb into the city substantial, often even less. I used to live outside of Zurich and my commute was shorter than that of a colleague who lived in the city, but in another part of town far away from where we worked.

I also think people take a rejection WAY too personal. It's not a job application or job interview (and even there, it's often not personal). I have no idea what an 'ideal tenant' would look like. Affordable apartments in the city center receive 50, 100, 150 and more applications. I'd bet my head it's just a pure coincidence as to who is chosen - those that are absolutely not an option will probably be discarded right away, and then it's a random choice.

Why are people taking this so personal? I don't get it. I would never assume it's because of me as a person if I don't get an apartment in the center of e.g. Zurich. Chances I get it are likely close to zero to begin with, even as a supposedly 'ideal' candidate (whatever that means). So keep trying, something will turn up, and by all means, there's a world outside the center of Lucerne - expand your scope. Or if that's not an option, be fine with what you have, and take the occasional look on what's available out there.


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