Evening all,

I have found some documentation in the bottom from October 1977. Surely that is enough justification for a new one?

Thanks for all the advice and information.

Paul

No, it really isn't. As several people have already explained, there's no requirement for the landlord to replace anything that still works and doesn't violate current building codes.

So what you need to argue is that it doesn't work. If it didn't heat up at all that would be easy to establish. Since it does heat up, I predict your conversation is going to go something like this:

Landlord: "see! it does work, it gets hot"
You: "not hot enough"
Landlord: "hm, certainly seems hot enough to me. just turn it up a bit higher next time."
You: "..."

Have you thought of contacting your local tenants' association (Mieterverband)? They deal with these disputes all the time and could probably advise you what your chances of success are.

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Perhaps just ask, though, before bringing in the big guns.

Or don't. If you complain too much they may just terminate your lease.

Ask me how I know

Thanks for taking the time to write all of that. A simple 'no' would have done.

Just ask them if they could have a look at it as you don't think it's working properly. They probably won't be very surprised to hear that if the cooker really us that old. If you ask them nicely and don't start making demands I'm sure they'll be happy to check it out.

You could do a temperature check with the thermometer beforehand if you want to and present them with the evidence. It's all very well turning the heat up to compensate for the lack of heat but there are times when you need to cook things at 220 or 230 and that's going to be pretty hard to do if your oven is under heating.

Invite the landlord round for roast chicken...

An hour a half at 120 degrees should get his attention.

Actually MN's post - if an interaction between you and the landlord were to go the way she describes - points out a possible answer the landlord might tell you. Saying "no" to your request to replace the cooker is just another possible answer.

Isn't getting as many different answers as possible from us EFers and then deliberating what you could answer to each and every one of them to receive what you want (a new cooker) more useful than just receiving a "The landlord will say NO" post from everyone who replies to your thread?

I don't know any landlord who is going to spend any effort on repairing an oven from 1977. This does not fall under small repair which you are responsible for because it needs an expert to look at.

As I suggested, you have to test if it is not working properly.

So you don't "request a new cooker". If you are sure the oven is not working properly, you report the problem and wait for the response.

If you're that bloody smart, why don't you sort it out yourself ?

Quit cooking anf go out to restautant. Problem solved.

In many cases such old appliances can't be repaired anyway because there are no more spare parts available.

No.

Perhaps you'd like to join me? I think you'd make fantastic company.

Table for two please.

Is that right?

You've more experience with these things than me, so I'm not doubting you, but I've been charged for experts fixing my appliances (a tumble dryer) before now. It's ten years to late to challenge it now, but was I mischarged?

We didn't have to pay when our oven wasn't working properly about 4 years ago.

We also didn't have to pay when the water heater stopped working about a year later and that was at the weekend so included the weekend call out fees.

There are two rules - so it seems - when it comes to paying for repairs. Both of these will define whether the repair is a "small repair" or not. The tenant has to pay for small repairs, the landlord for all others.

1. If the cost is under a certain amount; usually specified as a percentage of monthly rent or hard amount in your contract. In mine, it's 150 CHF.

2. If the repair doesn't need an "expert", so anything not requiring professional knowledge or certification.

This second rule is new to me, but it has been mentioned here more than once now. However I suspect for most people it would be difficult here in Switzerland to have something repaired by an expert and still receive a bill for under 150 CHF (or whatever).

True, but if an appliance is not working correctly due to age, then it arguably affects your reasonable expectations to fully enjoy your apartment.

I rent out a flat in London and I'm of the opinion that my tenants pay me good, hard earned money, and therefore have a right to expect things to work properly.
If a 25 year old oven wasn't working well anymore due to age, I'd replace it. It's a business expense and the old oven has probably paid for itself many times over during that time.
Personally, I don't get why so many landlords have to be so tight arsed and unreasonable with genuine situations like this.
I feel if I treat tenants with respect, it gets paid back - my last tenants lived in the flat for 7 years (quite unusual in London) meaning I had no break in rent for that period (not to mention the frankly insane increase in it's value over that time!).
I replaced the washing machine, fridge & gas hob for them at various points and it cost me a few hundred quid, which is nothing in the bigger picture, IMO.

Replace or repair, it's your choice. If it wasn't working properly and was 25 days old, you'd still need to replace or repair it.

I don't eat with people who are rude, give me too much competition resulting in indigestion

A bill of under chf 150 is becoming rare. The exception would be if the expert visits and the tenant is deemed at fault for the breakage. This would be the case with foreign objects damaging the washing machine (even a collar stay can cause damage) or the dishwasher.

Most companies selling and repairing appliances also prefer to sell a new appliance and usually they make a case for that rather than repairing the appliance unless it is under warranty or not very old. Repairs are costly and often they cannot carry all the parts with them so they have to order parts and that means a second visit.

To the OP, do let us know how your request is met. There is no need to contact the tenant's association yet as there is no dispute. There is no point in escalating the matter until you give the landlord the chance to respond.

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