Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16.02.2015, 10:23
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 14 Times in 2 Posts
paulzurich has slipped a little
Can I request a new cooker?

Morning all,

I've lived in my apartment for 5 years and everything is fine, apart from the cooker. It must be at least 25 years old and it's far from economical - I cook everything on 200c!

Can I request a new cooker from my landlord even though it's not broken? Would I have to pay anything towards a new one?

Thanks in advance.

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16.02.2015, 10:41
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,169
Groaned at 171 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

The cooker was old when you moved in and the rent may (or may not, but you moved in anyway) reflect that.

You could always do something which has the unfortunate potential of breaking it, and hope it can't be repaired ...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16.02.2015, 11:13
njusta83's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 348
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 259 Times in 144 Posts
njusta83 has earned the respect of manynjusta83 has earned the respect of manynjusta83 has earned the respect of many
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

maybe check if there is an 'expected lifespan' for something like that with the mieterverband or online. Paint has an 'expected lifespan' of 7-8 years after which the landlord needs to have the apartment repainted should the renter request it (not exactly sure what the wording is), maybe worth checking that out.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16.02.2015, 11:15
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,715
Groaned at 54 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 9,623 Times in 3,557 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

You can always ask.

If it's literally 25 years old (or over 15 years old, anyway) then you may have more chance.

According to the Mietverband table;

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...ertabelle.html

The expected life of a cooker is 15 years

https://intern.mieterverband.ch/ldt/objekte.php?Gid=7
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 16.02.2015, 11:25
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 14 Times in 2 Posts
paulzurich has slipped a little
I was thinking that my rent could be based partly on how modern my kitchen is. I'd rather not do anything illegal just in case I'm found out

I'll enquire with the management company and I'll bear your info in mind, Njusta.

I'm also going to look into the rent reduction sceheme so any increase in rent for 'an upgrade' could be offset against an interest rate reduction.......now where to find my rental agreement

https://en.comparis.ch/immobilien/mi...reduktion.aspx

A colleague of mine will be paying 100chf less than me from April and his flat is of similar size, same location and far more modern.

Quote:
View Post
You can always ask.

If it's literally 25 years old (or over 15 years old, anyway) then you may have more chance.

According to the Mietverband table;

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...ertabelle.html

The expected life of a cooker is 15 years

https://intern.mieterverband.ch/ldt/objekte.php?Gid=7
Thank you for this. Great info......I should probably know about this website, having been here for 5 years.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 16.02.2015 at 13:48. Reason: merging successive posts
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank paulzurich for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 16.02.2015, 11:35
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 282 Times in 233 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
You can always ask.

If it's literally 25 years old (or over 15 years old, anyway) then you may have more chance.

According to the Mietverband table;

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...ertabelle.html

The expected life of a cooker is 15 years

https://intern.mieterverband.ch/ldt/objekte.php?Gid=7
My interpretation is that those figures are the "intended lifespan" and not the "automatically replaced at".

The former implies that something will last X years, if it needs replacing within that time you are liable to a % of the cost. EG A cooker should last 15 years; you move into a 5 year old flat. Within a week you damage the cooker beyond repair - and are therefore liable for 2/3 of the cost.

One advantage of moving into an older apartment (not renovated for a while) is that there is a good chance that many things are beyond their expected lifespan - and therefore you are unlikely to incur high leaving costs.

As with anything, you can ask the landlord for a new oven - just don't expect to get a positive response!

What is the actual problem with the oven?
__________________
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 16.02.2015, 11:39
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,318
Groaned at 117 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 7,120 Times in 2,718 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Rent is always partly based on how new and modern an apartment is. If you look at one, see that it has an old kitchen or so and apply and take it anyway, the assumption is you don't care. This lesser value towards a more modern apartment is reflected in the rent, so no, generally, you can't move in and request things to be changed (if they're not broken) just because you don't like them.

The landlord is therefore not obliged to replace your stove if it's still working, even if the 15 years have passed. There is no automatic right to have stuff replaced just because a certain amount of time has passed. Imagine every apartment would have to be completely revamped after 15-20 years, cause of course the stove is not the only thing that needs updating - that's not sustainable. Of course if the thing is broken beyond repair and/or doesn't fully function the way it should, then it's a different story. However, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Also note that if equipment is replaced or the apartment is "modernized" in any way, this is usually reflected in a higher rent.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 16.02.2015, 11:45
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 11,508
Groaned at 180 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 17,906 Times in 7,578 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

You could try asking them to have a look at the cooker as you don't think it's working properly. You shouldn't have to put it at 200°c every time you use it so maybe one of the elements is broken.
Having the temperature high every time you cook will also have an effect on your electricity consumption.

When we moved here we were renting a house with a very old kitchen ( over 25 years) but everything was working ok. After a couple of months the oven wasn't heating up enough and the engineer said it was one of the heating elements that had gone, he called the landlord who said to go ahead and replace it. ( was a few days before Christmas).
I few months later we complained to him because the oven fan was extremely noisy and it was very hard to hear people speaking when the oven was on. That time he decided it wasn't worth repairing it and arranged for a new cooker to be fitted.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 16.02.2015, 11:49
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,715
Groaned at 54 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 9,623 Times in 3,557 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
My interpretation is that those figures are the "intended lifespan" and not the "automatically replaced at".
Mine too.

But I thought it might be a better bargaining point if he could say "This piece of junk is 25 years old, and it's way past its expected lifetime. Please can I have a new one? An Aga will last forever "


Quote:
View Post
Having the temperature high every time you cook will also have an effect on your electricity consumption.
Not necessarily. I'd guess that it's not getting to the indicated temperature, otherwise food would still burn. It might just be a knackered thermostat.

I think Adrian's idea of an exploding chicken might be best.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16.02.2015, 13:32
Mark75's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: by the lake (either one)
Posts: 2,511
Groaned at 45 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,136 Times in 1,363 Posts
Mark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
maybe check if there is an 'expected lifespan' for something like that with the mieterverband or online. Paint has an 'expected lifespan' of 7-8 years after which the landlord needs to have the apartment repainted should the renter request it
That's a common misunderstanding.

The 'expected lifespan' simply means that, once it's over, the tenant is no longer liable for any damages.
There's no obligation for the landlord to replace something just because it's old.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Mark75 for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 16.02.2015, 14:32
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 14 Times in 2 Posts
paulzurich has slipped a little
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Argh, mixed thoughts from you all. I guess the only thing I can do is ask.

I'll let you know what happens......if anything does.

I suppose there is no point in me asking for a new fridge freezer. Our current one has a freezer the size of a shoebox and a fridge the size of a bathtub.

Thank you for your feedback.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16.02.2015, 14:56
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tessin
Posts: 6,136
Groaned at 122 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 7,236 Times in 3,409 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
Argh, mixed thoughts from you all. I guess the only thing I can do is ask.

I'll let you know what happens......if anything does.
If it is broken, it is unlikely that the landlord will invest in repairing it, but just replace it. Having a service call costs money, though sometimes the cost will be deducted if a new appliance is ordered. If you want to know the age of the appliance, look for the metal plate inside and call the manufacturer with the model number.

Also, as we discovered certain old appliances were wired differently years ago. In our kitchen the original cooktop and oven had one control panel and all wired together. Do you have something like that? Then you cannot replace one appliance without the other.

Replacing a defective appliance will have zero influence on your rent. It is a repair, not an improvement.

You can check the temperate of the oven with a thermometer. There are sophisticated ones but you can also just invest in a simple one. I find inviting the owner/landlord to see for themselves can be very effective.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16.02.2015, 15:00
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,318
Groaned at 117 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 7,120 Times in 2,718 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
I suppose there is no point in me asking for a new fridge freezer. Our current one has a freezer the size of a shoebox and a fridge the size of a bathtub.
No, there is indeed no point. Apart from that, large fridges with only one small freezer compartment are pretty common in CH. If you need a larger freezer, buy it yourself and put it in the basement. Lots of people do that here.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 16.02.2015, 15:15
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
That's a common misunderstanding.

The 'expected lifespan' simply means that, once it's over, the tenant is no longer liable for any damages.
There's no obligation for the landlord to replace something just because it's old.

That's exactly what my landlord said when i told him my wife was old and i wanted a replacement


....i won't tell you what my old lady did to me, but certain parts do now need replacing
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 16.02.2015, 15:19
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,479
Groaned at 76 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 17,126 Times in 7,740 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
If it is broken, it is unlikely that the landlord will invest in repairing it, but just replace it...
^This. So don't ask for a new one right up front. Tell the landlord the cooker is not functioning properly and see if they will get someone out to repair it (or replace it). As dodgyken says, you should not have to use 200 all the time.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 16.02.2015, 15:28
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,715
Groaned at 54 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 9,623 Times in 3,557 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
Quote:
View Post
If it is broken, it is unlikely that the landlord will invest in repairing it, but just replace it...
^This. So don't ask for a new one right up front. Tell the landlord the cooker is not functioning properly and see if they will get someone out to repair it (or replace it).
Yeah, but...

You may be resposible for the repair cost if it's deemed a "small repair", so be wary. It varies from contract to contract, but if the repair is, say, 150 CHF or less then the cost might be yours.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 16.02.2015, 15:34
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 11,508
Groaned at 180 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 17,906 Times in 7,578 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
As dodgyken says, you should not have to use 200 all the time.
Quote:
View Post
You could try asking them to have a look at the cooker as you don't think it's working properly. You shouldn't have to put it at 200°c every time you use it .
Ermm!!!!

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, but...

You may be resposible for the repair cost if it's deemed a "small repair", so be wary. It varies from contract to contract, but if the repair is, say, 150 CHF or less then the cost might be yours.
150 chf would be a small price to pay for a cooker that actually works properly IMO. Chances are the repair would cost more than 150chf in any case.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 16.02.2015, 15:40
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,715
Groaned at 54 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 9,623 Times in 3,557 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
150 chf would be a small price to pay for a cooker that actually works properly IMO. Chances are the repair would cost more than 150chf in any case.
I was just setting expectations.

Besides, it may be better to ask for a new cooker. It might be refused and a repair offered, and there's no difference. They might agree and give you a new cooker for free.

If you only ask for a repair, then that might be exactly what you get. Well that and a bill.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 16.02.2015, 15:43
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,479
Groaned at 76 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 17,126 Times in 7,740 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, but...

You may be resposible for the repair cost if it's deemed a "small repair", so be wary. It varies from contract to contract, but if the repair is, say, 150 CHF or less then the cost might be yours.
I almost wrote that...but would it still apply if the cooker is past its life expectancy in terms of tenant responsibility? I honestly don't know but I'd sure hope after 20 something years the tenant wouldn't have to pay for repairs.

ETA - OP is guessing at the age of the appliance from what I can tell. Might be good to determine the age for sure before making any calls.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 16.02.2015, 16:04
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,432
Groaned at 35 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 10,888 Times in 3,249 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I request a new cooker?

OP, you can buy an oven thermometer for around 10 euros on Amazon.de. Do that, try the oven at various temperature settings (give it some time to warm up first, 20-30 minutes is not too long) and see what temperatures it's actually producing. If you find it's consistently, say, 20 degrees too low, then you will know what you need to do to compensate. Hint: "always turn it to 200" is probably not the answer.

Don't worry too much about energy savings, the difference between older and newer ovens is minimal. If "turning it up to 200" means that you get an actual temperature of 170, then you are using just about the same energy as cooking at 170 in any other oven - not the same as cooking at 200 in another oven.

The only way your oven could really be wasting a lot of energy is if it's poorly insulated or the door seals are bad... and you'd know because it would be heating the whole kitchen.


One more thought: is it a physical dial with a knob you can turn for the temperature? If so it's (just) possible that the knob has come off before and been replaced in slightly the wrong orientation. (The shaft is usually keyed in order to prevent such mistakes, but if your stove is really that old-fashioned....)
__________________
Need help? Contact a mod.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Laptop recommendation request moongoddess TV/internet/telephone 105 25.10.2013 23:55
Can my employer revoke an approved leave request? mansi Employment 29 07.01.2013 15:45
Where can I buy a Pressure Cooker in Zurich? lawraga Other/general 11 22.10.2009 12:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0