Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 02.03.2015, 15:21
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Thank you everyone for contributing to the post and giving advice/suggestions.

I perfectly understand a landlord's point of view, and I'm aware that here it's plenty of people ready to the rent a flat just based on what they earn in Switzerland.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if me and my bf are both resident in Switzerland and we both sign the rental contract then aren't we both legally answerable (and prosecutable) if we ever fail to pay a rent?
Talking about hard numbers: if I earn 60K (in Switzerland) and he makes more than me (but in Italy), how much possibility do we have to get a 2000K/month apartment? Maybe slightly less, it depends on what I can find.

I know a couple (they're my friends) that moved to Lugano not a long ago because of his new job for a bank. When they moved she was unemployed in Italy, and they got a very nice apartment to rent in the city centre. Only after moving she also got a job there. He told me that his parents acted as guarantors to get the apartment because he couldn't do that just based on his salary.
Now, I understand that Zug is a different canton, not all the landlords are the same, maybe the competition is higher here than in Lugano, or whatsover astral conjunction happened, but I wonder how alle the couples that move to Switzerland get their first flat when only one of the two has a job here? Just based on his/her salary?
If I would ever decide to rent an apartment in Italy (with my swiss contract) then it wouldn't be a problem at all. But here it seems that I need to be extremely lucky to be accepted by the agency/landlord for a suitable apartment.

Another thing: in six months after the beginning of my contract I will start accrue bonuses that will increase my monthly remuneration by 25% for the first year, and will keep increasing for the following years. This is clearly stated in the contract. Maybe this can help? Not since the beginning though, I will start to receive it only after 6 months, but by then it will be also stated in my monthly payslip.

Anyone has further suggestions/advices/personal experiences that could be useful for my situation? It would be really appreciated! In return I can offer to anyone in the Zug area (when I will have a roof over my head) a full and abundant Italian dinner cooked by me at my place (including wines hehe)

PS: I found this on the official website of the Canton Zug:
https://iform.zg.ch/iform/pub/egov10...erungE1_EN.doc
It's a form for a letter of committment from a guarantor. Does it have some legal value? I guess so since it was on the website of the Canton Zug..

Again, thank you everbody!
  #22  
Old 02.03.2015, 15:31
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: CH
Posts: 203
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 696 Times in 169 Posts
lawyerd has a reputation beyond reputelawyerd has a reputation beyond reputelawyerd has a reputation beyond reputelawyerd has a reputation beyond reputelawyerd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

The letter you link doesn't apply to your situation. It is for immigration purposes, I believe.

As for the flat hunt - it's a very competitive market in Switzerland and especially in the low tax cantons/communes such as Zug. Best thing to do is to be realistic in the monthly rent (as per advice already given) and expect a few rejection letters before you get lucky.

Good Luck
  #23  
Old 02.03.2015, 16:41
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Lawyerd, I know it's for immigration purposes (and in fact I have to fill it for my B residence permit). But if exists a letter of committment for immigration, could make some sense providing a similar one (same format) when applying for a flat?

That's all I was asking.
Thank you
  #24  
Old 02.03.2015, 16:48
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 282 Times in 233 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Quote:
View Post
Lawyerd, I know it's for immigration purposes (and in fact I have to fill it for my B residence permit). But if exists a letter of committment for immigration, could make some sense providing a similar one (same format) when applying for a flat?

That's all I was asking.
Thank you
It could - but it is unlikely to help.

There is a good chance they'll ask for a copy of your contract - and if you are earning say 60k (pa) you are not going to be top of the pile if you go for a 2k (pm) flat.

It is hard enough to get a flat in Switzerland don't put extra barriers in your way
The following 2 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 02.03.2015, 16:58
Cata1yst's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zugish
Posts: 556
Groaned at 17 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 710 Times in 323 Posts
Cata1yst has a reputation beyond reputeCata1yst has a reputation beyond reputeCata1yst has a reputation beyond reputeCata1yst has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Lugano is not Zug, I'd also suggest that 60k you will struggle in Zug renting outright, perhaps a flat share maybe a better idea initially?

Flat hunting generally you need:-

Job confirmation and salary

The deposit (biggest problem) usually

A letter from betriebsamt saying you have no Swiss debts (easy costs 20chf and as you haven't lived here before it's a formality.

http://www.zg.ch/behoerden/volkswirt...reibungsaemter

Helpful/Optional

Letter from employer to give a little more detail than basics saying you will be here for a long time and are of good character etc.

Maybe a letter in Swiss German about yourself and where you come from/your plans (hint say you intend to stay here indefinitely!)

I don't mean to put you off as anything's possible. Don't rely on a bonus to keep you in the "black" sometimes these dont materialise.

60k is very low for a single person in Zug right now to rent. The locals on similar salaries find it extremely difficult to find apartments at a reasonable cost, secondly a Swiss person will always get the apartment over yourself if there is competition (which there will be!). Hence flat share then play the renting game.

A room in a shared house in Zug will cost you 1000chf a month, a 1 room flat 1100-1200chf this puts it into context. 1,800-1,900 for the most basic 60sq m flat, 3 rooms is the cheapest I can find without being picky.

If you go for a flat then you pay get to pay bills on top. So by the time you work this out 60% of your salary is gone.

The advice is get your foot in the door at lowest cost possible then see what happens. Flatshare first then rent once you've saved a bit.
The following 4 users would like to thank Cata1yst for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 02.03.2015, 17:17
Papa Goose's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ägeri
Posts: 3,701
Groaned at 193 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,806 Posts
Papa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Quote:
View Post
Another thing: in six months after the beginning of my contract I will start accrue bonuses that will increase my monthly remuneration by 25% for the first year, and will keep increasing for the following years. This is clearly stated in the contract. Maybe this can help? Not since the beginning though, I will start to receive it only after 6 months, but by then it will be also stated in my monthly payslip.
Bonuses and commission vary and as such landlords don't always include them. They will look at how much you will definitely clear, which will be you base salary, and take 30% of that. Also thats 6 months away... if they'll accept them.

2k apartments are thin on the ground in Zug, and if they are around not the nicest.

Last edited by Papa Goose; 02.03.2015 at 23:09.
The following 2 users would like to thank Papa Goose for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 02.03.2015, 19:15
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Ok I understand. So for now no way to live with my bf, right? He was even willing to pay 6 months of rent in advance, but it seems that a landlord/agent will never take this into account. Basically this means that we'll never be able to live together here as long as he earns money in Italy or as long as I don't earn enough for 2 people. Am I wrong?

I have no problems with flat share, I did it before and always had a good time.
But now honestly I wanted to live with him, like we used to do in Italy. And even if together we earn enough for a 3k flat, it's very unlikely that we'll get such flat.

I have to say that all this is becoming very frustrating...
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 02.03.2015, 21:14
Papa Goose's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ägeri
Posts: 3,701
Groaned at 193 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,806 Posts
Papa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

It's called being living within your means really. Please don't think people aren't sympathetic, but 60k really is not going to get you much more than a flat share, unless you look further afield.
The following 3 users would like to thank Papa Goose for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 02.03.2015, 22:41
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Quote:
View Post
It's called being living within your means really. Please don't think people aren't sympathetic, but 60k really is not going to get you much more than a flat share, unless you look further afield.

Sorry Papa Goose, but how do you know what are my means? Have I ever said that I want to live in Switzerland only with my salary? No I didn't.
What I did is asking an advice on my situation based on what I wrote in the thread (which of course is not the story of my life). And I thought that maybe someone experienced a similar situation or knows of someone who experienced it, so as to have at least a clue on how to proceed.
If I say that I'm frustrated is because I know exactly what are my family means, and the fact that I cannot prove them for renting an apartment here (based on what I've been told so far) yes, is becoming frustrating for me.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at for this post:
  #30  
Old 02.03.2015, 23:04
Papa Goose's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ägeri
Posts: 3,701
Groaned at 193 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,806 Posts
Papa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Quote:
View Post
Sorry Papa Goose, but how do you know what are my means?
Post 22 line 6. 60k was your stated salary, thats all that matters to a landlord
This user would like to thank Papa Goose for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 03.03.2015, 00:36
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Quote:
View Post
Post 22 line 6. 60k was your stated salary, thats all that matters to a landlord
Yes, the fact that my salary is the only thing that matters to a landlord was clear since the first reply that I got 2 days ago, but this definitely doesn't define 'my means'.
Thank you for your contribution anyway.
  #32  
Old 03.03.2015, 00:56
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 716
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 648 Times in 338 Posts
daffy99 has an excellent reputationdaffy99 has an excellent reputationdaffy99 has an excellent reputationdaffy99 has an excellent reputation
Quote:
View Post
PS: I found this on the official website of the Canton Zug:
https://iform.zg.ch/iform/pub/egov10...erungE1_EN.doc
It's a form for a letter of committment from a guarantor. Does it have some legal value?
Useless.

It is meant to be filled in by foreign nationals residing in Switzerland so that a visa is granted to a visitor of said foreign national.

Example: Indian relative/friend wants to visit resident of Switzerland of Indian nationality.

The best advice I have for you on your current scenario is to make sure that the landlord / rental agency becomes confident in your ability to a) pay b) in the long term.

The really, really simple way of doing that would be you documenting a monthly *guaranteed* gross income of about 3-4 times the rent and the landlord having zero doubt about that.

I understand that there is a challenge. Now it is time to get creative and
a) provide as much information as possible
b) spare the poor reader as much time as possible

In my case,
- the monthly income
- my personal fit on the flat ("single occupant")
- name-dropping of the employer
- a letter of recommendation from the HR department of my employer
had the effect of me getting that one flat that I really wanted.

Your only solution will be to, well, err, prostitute yourself without requiring that the reader of your application will need to spend effort on it. Sell yourself, basically.

Good luck

Quote:
View Post
but how do you know what are my means?
Your means are 60k gross.

Translation: 60k gross/year = 5k gross/month -> 1.5k/month flat.

That is what *you* will be able to get.

Your friend? From Euro-is-going-to-go-bust-pasta-espresso-country? With an unstable income? Hello-oooo?! If you find a landlord sympathetic to your cause - great! I suspect that they will be more sympathetic to their purse.

Solution? Start out for yourself, dirt cheap. Then, keep looking - and start looking in the least attractive areas that you can imagine.

This is not what you want to hear.

Welcome to Switzerland, still

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.03.2015 at 22:55. Reason: merging successive posts
  #33  
Old 03.03.2015, 01:47
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Quote:
View Post
Your means are 60k gross.

Translation: 60k gross/year = 5k gross/month -> 1.5k/month flat.

That is what *you* will be able to get.

Your friend? From Euro-is-going-to-go-bust-pasta-espresso-country? With an unstable income? Hello-oooo?! If you find a landlord sympathetic to your cause - great! I suspect that they will be more sympathetic to their purse.

Solution? Start out for yourself, dirt cheap. Then, keep looking - and start looking in the least attractive areas that you can imagine.

This is not what you want to hear.

Welcome to Switzerland, still
Unstable income? No, sorry but this is not our case, actually it's exactly the opposite. But at this point I don't want to add any other personal information.
Thank you for the Pasta-espresso country
  #34  
Old 03.03.2015, 02:18
Tasebo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wald, Zurich/Stockholm
Posts: 1,297
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 1,414 Times in 703 Posts
Tasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Quote:
View Post
Unstable income? No, sorry but this is not our case, actually it's exactly the opposite. But at this point I don't want to add any other personal information.
Thank you for the Pasta-espresso country
It's ok, give it 5 minutes and someone will be along claiming the only worthwhile espresso to be found is in...Italy.

No comments on the flat hunt other than good luck, persevere, and perhaps look a bit further afield.
The following 2 users would like to thank Tasebo for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 03.03.2015, 08:58
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 28,863
Groaned at 1,974 Times in 1,494 Posts
Thanked 34,246 Times in 16,290 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
Yes, the fact that my salary is the only thing that matters to a landlord was clear since the first reply that I got 2 days ago, but this definitely doesn't define 'my means'.
So buy a place rather than rent, problem solved.

Tom

Quote:
View Post
It's ok, give it 5 minutes and someone will be along claiming the only worthwhile espresso to be found is in...Italy.
Indeed, and the only worthwile pasta, motorcycles, icecream, Nutella, etc.

Tom

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.03.2015 at 22:56. Reason: merging successive posts
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 03.03.2015, 10:00
Papa Goose's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ägeri
Posts: 3,701
Groaned at 193 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,806 Posts
Papa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

As if by magic:
http://www.englishforum.ch/property-...r-1-859-a.html

Not the nice bit of Gobli, but it is well located, soit's ok, and without the garage may be doable, BUT someone who wants the garage will trump you as landlords are running a business which is all about the money.

Last edited by Papa Goose; 03.03.2015 at 12:09.
This user would like to thank Papa Goose for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 03.03.2015, 10:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Thank you!
  #38  
Old 03.03.2015, 10:41
Mrs. Doolittle's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tessin
Posts: 6,136
Groaned at 122 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 7,236 Times in 3,409 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Quote:
View Post
Ok I understand. So for now no way to live with my bf, right? He was even willing to pay 6 months of rent in advance, but it seems that a landlord/agent will never take this into account. Basically this means that we'll never be able to live together here as long as he earns money in Italy or as long as I don't earn enough for 2 people. Am I wrong?

I have no problems with flat share, I did it before and always had a good time.
But now honestly I wanted to live with him, like we used to do in Italy. And even if together we earn enough for a 3k flat, it's very unlikely that we'll get such flat.

I have to say that all this is becoming very frustrating...
If I were the OP I might regret posting here as the advice she is getting is not what she wants to hear....hence the frustration.

I have provided home search services to persons with a wide range of income levels. Bonus is generally not taken into consideration, just income earned in Switzerland.

Zug is expensive. Taxes are low so rents are high.

I notice the nebenkosten on flats can be outrageous.
The post today for a 4 room flat with nebenkosten of chf 320 a month is an example. One has to question this.

My advice is to find a nice apartment within your means. There is no reason why your boyfriend cannot stay here with you. Perhaps it won't be what you had hoped for, but it doesn't have to be a dump. From the sound of it, you are young and fit. Look for perhaps a dachwohnung, these are often more difficult to rent. They can also be more spacious than an apartment with the same number of rooms. Often they have their own washer/dryer.

Personally I would advise against a flatshare for someone in a relationship.

To the OP, has your company offered you the services of a relocation agent?
The competition in Zug is fierce, someone to help you with your search can make all the difference in the world.

If you have not been offered furnished temp housing by your employer, ask for it. This will put you under less pressure and give you time to look while you are here, rather than from a distance.

I know you can find something within your budget. I have clients who had nice places in various areas of Kanton Zug with rents well under chf 2,000 /month.
__________________

The following 3 users would like to thank Mrs. Doolittle for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 03.03.2015, 12:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice needed on flat hunting in Zug, Please read!!

Quote:
View Post
If I were the OP I might regret posting here as the advice she is getting is not what she wants to hear....hence the frustration.

I have provided home search services to persons with a wide range of income levels. Bonus is generally not taken into consideration, just income earned in Switzerland.

Zug is expensive. Taxes are low so rents are high.

I notice the nebenkosten on flats can be outrageous.
The post today for a 4 room flat with nebenkosten of chf 320 a month is an example. One has to question this.

My advice is to find a nice apartment within your means. There is no reason why your boyfriend cannot stay here with you. Perhaps it won't be what you had hoped for, but it doesn't have to be a dump. From the sound of it, you are young and fit. Look for perhaps a dachwohnung, these are often more difficult to rent. They can also be more spacious than an apartment with the same number of rooms. Often they have their own washer/dryer.

Personally I would advise against a flatshare for someone in a relationship.

To the OP, has your company offered you the services of a relocation agent?
The competition in Zug is fierce, someone to help you with your search can make all the difference in the world.

If you have not been offered furnished temp housing by your employer, ask for it. This will put you under less pressure and give you time to look while you are here, rather than from a distance.

I know you can find something within your budget. I have clients who had nice places in various areas of Kanton Zug with rents well under chf 2,000 /month.
I think I can thank you enough for this post. This is the first post that I read that combine useful info, professional experience and full understanding of my situation.
My employer offered me 2 months in a short-stay furnished flat (that can be extended if I won't find anything within these 2 months). My company is small and therefore they didn't mention a relocation agent, but the managing director himself offered to help me, both with references and by coming with me to see the apartments/speak directly with the agents. He's also aware of my intention to rent a place comfortable enough for a couple.

Do you think this can help or may I need a relocation agent?

Again, thank you for your contribution
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
Closed Thread

Tags
advice needed, moving, rent appartment, zug, zug apartment




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please help, advice needed on insurance coverage on pregnancy Natasha_w20 Insurance 12 20.01.2015 11:19
Advice on train from Zug to Malpensa (Milan) airport please NSchulzi Transportation/driving 24 23.03.2010 11:46
Advice on job-hunting Ariel Employment 3 28.09.2007 10:53
Hunting for a flat in Zug... terryhall Housing in general 9 24.05.2007 17:17


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0