Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.03.2015, 08:10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: see above !
Posts: 31
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
irish87 has earned some respectirish87 has earned some respect
This can't be Legal !!

Hi everyone

I have been looking for a flat in zurich now for some time now and finally on Thursday we recived the confirmation that we have been given the flat we wanted .

Perfect its in our budget and a great location.

The contract arrived on Friday and since advertising they have increased the monthly rent by 400 CHF . (now over our budget) They advertised under false pretences, what can I do? my partner refuses to pay this and is furious.

I want to know legally is this allowed or could we negotiate with the estate agents ?

Thanks for your help.

B
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01.03.2015, 08:27
basher's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 958
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 1,463 Times in 514 Posts
basher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond reputebasher has a reputation beyond repute
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Well, the first thing I would do is to call them and challenge them about it. There is a chance that it is a simple mistake - unlikely I know but best to check first before taking it further.
Also, I`m sure you have already checked, but did the price on the advert reflect all of the cost associated with the flat?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank basher for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 01.03.2015, 08:35
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: see above !
Posts: 31
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
irish87 has earned some respectirish87 has earned some respect
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Quote:
View Post
Well, the first thing I would do is to call them and challenge them about it. There is a chance that it is a simple mistake - unlikely I know but best to check first before taking it further.
Also, I`m sure you have already checked, but did the price on the advert reflect all of the cost associated with the flat?
Yeh I have took photos of the advert as i always do this incase the details are removed (this advert was removed 48 hours after posting even though the viewing was a week later .

I thought this is perfect as not many people would come along and this was the case the flat showing was very limited.

but yes all of the costs were shown on the advert and now the total cost has been increased by 400 CHF and the hilarious thing is the original price it was advertised is on the contract. (sort of a before and after show)

to be honest it seems very shady as when they took the references they wanted to know both of our salarys and with this info they have decided to increase the rent !
Reply With Quote
This user groans at irish87 for this post:
  #4  
Old 01.03.2015, 08:45
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NE
Posts: 245
Groaned at 114 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 245 Times in 161 Posts
Gamebuwa is considered unworthyGamebuwa is considered unworthyGamebuwa is considered unworthyGamebuwa is considered unworthyGamebuwa is considered unworthy
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Looks like you have not signed the contract yet. Why not contact them first to discuss and afterwards if you still don't like the new rent - don't sign the contract.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Gamebuwa for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 01.03.2015, 08:51
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: see above !
Posts: 31
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
irish87 has earned some respectirish87 has earned some respect
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Quote:
View Post
Looks like you have not signed the contract yet. Why not contact them first to discuss and afterwards if you still don't like the new rent - don't sign the contract.
True another issue is I want the place my partner out of principle says no he thinks they are taking advantage. I couldn't care less and I am willing to pay the extra myself if need be.

I just do not want to continue seeing 10 flats per week it is driving me mental.

I am worried if we confront the agency they revoke the offer rather than discuss a compromise.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01.03.2015, 09:02
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,400
Groaned at 434 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Quote:
View Post
True another issue is I want the place my partner out of principle says no he thinks they are taking advantage. I couldn't care less and I am willing to pay the extra myself if need be.

I just do not want to continue seeing 10 flats per week it is driving me mental.

I am worried if we confront the agency they revoke the offer rather than discuss a compromise.
Think it this way:

If they are ready to cheat you now, what will it be once you are in the flat and get some problems in the futur? Do you want this kind of landlord?

Check with them first and if it is not a mistake, think about it.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 01.03.2015, 09:12
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,432
Groaned at 35 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 10,888 Times in 3,249 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Quote:
View Post
but yes all of the costs were shown on the advert and now the total cost has been increased by 400 CHF and the hilarious thing is the original price it was advertised is on the contract. (sort of a before and after show)
Ahhh, I can tell you what's (almost certainly) happened then.

The advertisement you responded to was placed by the current tenant. If he wants to break his rental and move out on anything other than a few dates per year, he needs to provide a replacement tenant. So he advertised to get someone - listing the rent he was paying for the place.

Meanwhile the agency has decided to raise the rent between tenants. This is a common move: it's more difficult legally for them to raise the rent during a tenant's stay, so they wait until someone moves out and raise it then. But the agency probably didn't inform the outgoing tenant about this (why would they? it doesn't affect him) so he placed an ad in good faith citing the lower rent.

And the last puzzle piece: the previous tenant's rent is shown on the contract because by law it has to be (although IIRC this varies by canton.) I don't entirely see the point myself - the new rent's either in line with market values in that area or it isn't - but I guess more information is always a good thing.

It's still annoying, I know - but your partner should at least feel a little better knowing there's a reasonable, non-shady explanation for the mix-up.
__________________
Need help? Contact a mod.

Reply With Quote
The following 16 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 01.03.2015, 09:19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: see above !
Posts: 31
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
irish87 has earned some respectirish87 has earned some respect
Re: This can't be Legal !!

thats the thing the advert was posted by the Agency and we even called the lady at the office twice to confirm the viewing as we noticed the advert had been removed.

she told us they had to remove the advert as so many people were calling. when i went to view the apartment it was completely empty no-one living there.

this is my issue is this legal what they are doing?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01.03.2015, 09:35
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: This can't be Legal !!

If you really like the apartment and dont want to keep looking you could sign the contract and then approach the mietverband, show them the price advertised and lodge an appeal within 30 days of the start of the lease.

Using the mietverband costs ~65 CHF to join up, then can go to a few hundred CHF if the case proceeds to tribunal. But often the agency will offer to negotiate before it heads to a tribunal.

What is the original rent of the apartment? Usually a increase of more than a few percent would be illegal unless extensive renovations have been performed.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Kosti for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 01.03.2015, 09:45
Sky's Avatar
Sky Sky is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere special far away
Posts: 4,152
Groaned at 55 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 6,432 Times in 2,450 Posts
Sky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Yes they can raise the rent between renters.
Yes you can complain

But the bottom line is that the market is in their favor and you'll simply risk losing the flat to somebody else willing to pay.

It's not fair, but that's just the way it is.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sky for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 01.03.2015, 10:33
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: see above !
Posts: 31
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
irish87 has earned some respectirish87 has earned some respect
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Thanks everyone for the input fingers crossed that i can negotiate with the agency for a compromise, I truly don't mind paying more but to go from 1500 CHF Advertised to 1995. CHF on the contract with no explanation is annoying to say the least.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank irish87 for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 01.03.2015, 11:39
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 1,099
Groaned at 239 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 1,170 Times in 518 Posts
Troublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeable
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Vote with your feet and dont take it. You won't regret it.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01.03.2015, 11:41
esp esp is offline
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Zürich
Posts: 11
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
esp has no particular reputation at present
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Could it be that it was announced without nebenkosten ?
(400 CHF is a quite high Nebenkosten but...)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank esp for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 01.03.2015, 13:12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: see above !
Posts: 31
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
irish87 has earned some respectirish87 has earned some respect
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Quote:
View Post
Vote with your feet and dont take it. You won't regret it.
Ha ha I'll go in and kick them in the face and say I was told to do this :-)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01.03.2015, 13:14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: see above !
Posts: 31
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
irish87 has earned some respectirish87 has earned some respect
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Quote:
View Post
Could it be that it was announced without nebenkosten ?
(400 CHF is a quite high Nebenkosten but...)
Nebencosten was included in the price they are just being greedy because they know someone will take it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01.03.2015, 13:37
Sky's Avatar
Sky Sky is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere special far away
Posts: 4,152
Groaned at 55 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 6,432 Times in 2,450 Posts
Sky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Well then, somebody else will get the flat, you'll continue seeking for another flat, and the world won't care in the least.

Attitude.. you'll not succeed unless you can handle a diplomatic approach.
You're the one who wants something, they're not obliged.

See the bright side, get the flat, and in a year from now ask if the rent can be readjusted.

Hope it works out for you.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01.03.2015, 14:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: north
Posts: 6,139
Groaned at 219 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 5,100 Times in 2,636 Posts
rob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Asking for salary is perfectly normal btw.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank rob1 for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 01.03.2015, 14:43
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: LAUSANNE
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts
Talenta is considered knowledgeableTalenta is considered knowledgeableTalenta is considered knowledgeable
Re: This can't be Legal !!

The Law prevents tenants from adjusting rents to market prices - instead they can (a) index the rent to an "official" mortgage rate and (b) adjust the rent if renovation increases the value/comfort of the flat.

So when a flat has been held for a long time, its rent is often far below market prices.

The Law intends to protect tenants from market price swings (do not push people out because high demand drives prices up), while allowing landlords to adjust to market prices (to avoid socialist-type situations that deter investments, which always backfires with scarcity => even higher prices).

The Law allows tenants to challenge the rent they signed (as Kosti said this morning). So you are entitled to sign the contract and then legally challenge the rent (incredible). To do so, you would have to demonstrate that the rent is significantly above market prices (for a comparable flat, in the same area, etc), which is difficult to do unless the rent is obviously outrageous. And when doing so, you risk being black-listed by this agency and possibly by all their "friends" (this can't be legal, can it?)...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Talenta for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 01.03.2015, 18:56
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,955
Groaned at 326 Times in 269 Posts
Thanked 10,267 Times in 5,419 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: This can't be Legal !!

Sign the contract and appeal rent amount, upon which the landlord will need to justify his increase.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
angry, estate agent, living costs




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Léger Protein Bread - can this be true? ElggDK Food and drink 14 13.11.2012 09:46
Can she get away with this? (Legal question) Russkov Family matters/health 17 11.02.2010 09:05
How hard can this be???....... Really??? Island Monkey Employment 14 13.02.2009 13:25
Im confused...can this be ? TheWolverine General off-topic 1 28.06.2008 00:31


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0