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-   -   Renting if self-employed (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/229051-renting-if-self-employed.html)

Eved 03.03.2015 13:10

Renting if self-employed
 
As my family and I prepare to move to Switzerland, my list of questions is just growing. So I am going to ask them, one by one, and hope that your experience and help will offer some clarity.

My two children (13yo, 4 yo) and I are EU citizens, and my boyfriend (and father of one of my children) is not.

I am self employed, and am coming to Switzerland on a "self-sufficient" basis. As I understand it, I need to prove reliable income to support myself and my family. I don't think this will be a problem. My income is mostly derived from online businesses and writing. My boyfriend will have to give up his job here, and will explore his options and either work for a Swiss company, or participate in an online start-up that he has been working on. We are not relying on his income for quite a while, he does not speak German but does have good SAP project management skills.

However, I do wonder about how we are going to rent an apartment. From the posts I have seen on EF it seems that landlords put a lot of emphasis on contracts, yet I will not have a Swiss contract in place. Can this be overcome, on the assumption that i can prove steady income from international sources, that allows the rental to be less than 30% of my income? Or if I can show enough money in a Swiss bank account to cover 12m rent?

If this is going to be problematic, I can think of two solutions, none of which fill me with much joy:
1) PAy 6 or 12 month rent in advance. Would this help? Does it place me at any hidden risk?

2) Set up a local Swiss company, with a relationship with my international company. Then, this Swiss company could employ me, with a Swiss contract in place. Does this sound feasible?

I should mention that we want to live in Zurich area, and from what I can see on the sites, we will probably be spending about 5-6K on the apartment. Am I correct to assume that there is less competition for apartments in this price bracket, or is it an uphill battle in this price range?

Many thanks for any insight!

Fridge 03.03.2015 13:27

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
If you're working independently and decentralized, you have your pick of places to live in the world. Why Switzerland?

I'm not saying it's terrible here, but it would seem there are many other places to go that would be a better value for the cost of living, with much, much better weather. Most migrate here for the perceived increase in salary or a promotion. As that's not the case for you, why here?

Eved 03.03.2015 14:08

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
That is lough-out-loud funny to me ( in a good way) We chose Switzerland very specifically, mostly because it has the kind of life quality that we look forward to enjoying with the kids. We live in a country that is beautiful, but broken. And so we want to experience what the best has to offer.

Yes, I know it's expensive and I can't pretend that that does not worry me. But I look forward to the weather ( am used to it), although my bf is not that enthusiastic about that part of our move. And I look forward to kids having top notch education, and exposure to European culture.

Nothing is carved in stone, but we are eager to give it a shot 😄

TenaciousJ 03.03.2015 14:12

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
> top notch education, and exposure to European culture


UK then.


You'll be expose to Swiss culture here. That's it.


:-)

Eved 03.03.2015 14:23

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Good enough for me😄

We want a non English speaking country, and def not the UK.

Plus, we want a fun European adventure. It will do the kids good.

gata 03.03.2015 14:29

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
What languages do the kids speak?

Eved 03.03.2015 14:34

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Just English, although the eldest understands Polish perfectly ( taught by her grandmother. Doesn't speak, read or write it though). Youngest seems to maybe have a flair for languages, although this hasn't really been tested yet. I expect both kids to speak German asap though, and the youngest maybe French too eventually.

Fridge 03.03.2015 14:38

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eved (Post 2351615)
That is lough-out-loud funny to me ( in a good way) We chose Switzerland very specifically, mostly because it has the kind of life quality that we look forward to enjoying with the kids. We live in a country that is beautiful, but broken. And so we want to experience what the best has to offer.

Yes, I know it's expensive and I can't pretend that that does not worry me. But I look forward to the weather ( am used to it), although my bf is not that enthusiastic about that part of our move. And I look forward to kids having top notch education, and exposure to European culture.

Nothing is carved in stone, but we are eager to give it a shot 😄

Please be sure to keep updating here well after the move. I would love to see how the adventure changes your outlook.

Switzerland is undergoing a few dramatic changes at the moment. It's yet to be seen how that will impact the general quality of life you're after, but blindly betting on the status quo at this point would be quite na´ve.

dodgyken 03.03.2015 15:02

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
We'll pretend you can get permits for a >3mth stay - we'll say 12mths. You will need to demonstrate you can support your family without state assistance for that time.

You, children + boyfriend - we'll say 120k CHF - its a good starting point and should cover transportation to and from Switzerland - and ONLY cover costs in Switzerland. (IE not maintaining an existing life in South Africa).

Or around 1.5m SAR

Are you sure you have the required funds?

Eved 03.03.2015 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fridge (Post 2351650)
Please be sure to keep updating here well after the move. I would love to see how the adventure changes your outlook.

I intend to do one better than that and have start a blog on the experience, where i track my expectations and the realities. I like to write, and it will be a fun project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgyken (Post 2351673)
We'll pretend you can get permits for a >3mth stay - we'll say 12mths. You will need to demonstrate you can support your family without state assistance for that time.

You, children + boyfriend - we'll say 120k CHF - its a good starting point and should cover transportation to and from Switzerland - and ONLY cover costs in Switzerland. (IE not maintaining an existing life in South Africa).

Or around 1.5m SAR

Are you sure you have the required funds?

Hmmm. I assure you I have thought this through quite carefully. I don't think permits will be a problem, so we don't have to pretend. Also, I don't need to come in with all the funds, I simply need to show that I have an income stream to support those expenses. And I have budgeted much more than you suggested, so I don't think I will have problems re the permit.

That does not say that I won't have problems actually living in Switzerland, and paying Swiss prices. It will be quite a shock to the system, I am sure.

Also, although I do not know how this is relevant to this thread, my income is in US dollars, not South African rand.

noipv4 03.03.2015 15:15

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eved (Post 2351574)
1) PAy 6 or 12 month rent in advance. Would this help? Does it place me at any hidden risk?



Many thanks for any insight!

I know for a fact that many students pay 12months in advance when renting off-campus apartments in Lugano.

miniMia 03.03.2015 16:25

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eved (Post 2351680)
Hmmm. I assure you I have thought this through quite carefully. I don't think permits will be a problem, so we don't have to pretend.

A permit for your boyfriend could very well be a problem. It's not guaranteed that you can bring a non-married dependent. I'd look into that further before you make too many plans as you might have to plan a wedding. :D

There is no prescribed amount that you need to show. However, the idea is that you can support yourself without requiring social assistance. That would mean under 4500F a month for a family of 4 would certainly be unacceptable.

For tourist visas and students the figure of 100F per day per person is thrown around a lot. So, let's say you need 100F per day per adult, you'd need around 80K per year for both of you, which is not a unreasonable amount for a local family of 4 to live on.

Usually tax returns and bank statements should suffice as proof.

Eved 03.03.2015 16:43

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miniMia (Post 2351730)
A permit for your boyfriend could very well be a problem. It's not guaranteed that you can bring a non-married dependent. I'd look into that further before you make too many plans as you might have to plan a wedding. :D

There is no prescribed amount that you need to show. However, the idea is that you can support yourself without requiring social assistance. That would mean under 4500F a month for a family of 4 would certainly be unacceptable.

For tourist visas and students the figure of 100F per day per person is thrown around a lot. So, let's say you need 100F per day per adult, you'd need around 80K per year for both of you, which is not a unreasonable amount for a local family of 4 to live on.

Usually tax returns and bank statements should suffice as proof.

I have researched all of this, and bringing my Br will not be a problem. He is also the father of an EU citizen, but that is just a bonus. He can def join me, and work. He can even bring his parents, if they depend on him.

What I do not know is,how easy it will be to rent an apartment :msngrin:

Island Monkey 03.03.2015 16:50

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eved (Post 2351742)
I have researched all of this, and bringing my Br will not be a problem. He is also the father of an EU citizen, but that is just a bonus. He can def join me, and work. He can even bring his parents, if they depend on him.

What I do not know is,how easy it will be to rent an apartment :msngrin:

It will not be as easy as you expect, I promise you. I'm married to a Swiss citizen am EU and still nothing is easy. Be aware that as a non-EU he will have to apply for his visa/permit before he enters the country.

If I were you I'd go to an EU country, where at least you don't need any kind of permit (Germany/France etc).

gata 03.03.2015 16:58

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eved (Post 2351645)
Just English, although the eldest understands Polish perfectly ( taught by her grandmother. Doesn't speak, read or write it though). Youngest seems to maybe have a flair for languages, although this hasn't really been tested yet. I expect both kids to speak German asap though, and the youngest maybe French too eventually.

Asap? Maybe the youngest one. For a 13 year old... Maybe give it a bit more time. Local school or international?

Fridge 03.03.2015 17:00

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eved (Post 2351742)
I have researched all of this, and bringing my Br will not be a problem. He is also the father of an EU citizen, but that is just a bonus. He can def join me, and work. He can even bring his parents, if they depend on him.

What I do not know is,how easy it will be to rent an apartment :msngrin:

it's an odd request then.

Since you've done worlds of research and apparently found routes to working permits few before you have stumbled across, why are you relegated to asking here about rental contracts? Get the permits sorted out first, then find a place you like and contact them. Simple. You're self employed, not unemployed so I don't see why past tax statements wouldn't serve.

But, unless you have very, very serious amounts of cash at your disposal, I'm somehow incredulous of the ease you assume for the permits for everyone. You aren't exactly showing a need, nor right for being here, and it's not exactly a golden time for foreigners. Do you have any links to support that he will be able to work? You would have to most likely list him as a concubine, which would rely on your permit, which as I said, unless you're contributing significantly in taxes, I don't really see why they would issue it.

Chuff 03.03.2015 17:11

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eved (Post 2351630)
Good enough for me��

We want a non English speaking country, and def not the UK.

Plus, we want a fun European adventure. It will do the kids good.

Switzerland is one of the most amazing countries in the world to live if what you are looking for is quality of life, a great education, beautiful scenery, and an overall good and wholesome life.

Don't listen to moaning expats who are so unhappy with the country or their own lives that they always feel the need to put the place down.

Yes, it has sometimes infuriating bureaucracy, the people can take a little while to warm to, and it doesn't have the metropolitan culture or nightlife of places like London, New York or Paris... but personally I now can't imagine living anywhere else.

Good luck with everything, I hope it works out, even if it may not be as straightforward as you think! :)

Fridge 03.03.2015 17:17

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 2351770)
Yes, it has sometimes infuriating bureaucracy, the people can take a little while to warm to, and it doesn't have the metropolitan culture or nightlife of places like London, New York or Paris... but personally I now can't imagine living anywhere else.

I believe they refer to that as stockholm syndrome.

dodgyken 03.03.2015 17:21

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fridge (Post 2351778)
I believe they refer to that as stockholm syndrome.

Which we all know is the capital of Swiss ;)

gohabs 03.03.2015 17:37

Re: Renting if self-employed
 
On the subject of apartment rental - yes, indeed, paying 1-year in full is the way to go. Your chances are good if you look into the 5-6 k lease bracket, as they are not that many takers as they used to be. Hope this help and good luck with your move! I hope you will find everything you are looking for.


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