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Old 14.04.2015, 12:09
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Land that was farm land gets reclassified in CH on a regular basis
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  #42  
Old 14.04.2015, 13:12
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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When high land prices is not in the interest of the majority of voters things will change.
It could happen, but I doubt it, since the voting history seems to be away from home ownership. Therefore the majority of voters don't care about high land prices.
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  #43  
Old 14.04.2015, 14:25
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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Land that was farm land gets reclassified in CH on a regular basis
In the meantime you will see a displacement of location taking place- and people prepared to commute a bit further to access cheaper housing, cheaper estate and cheaper land to build on. Prices in Yverdon area are still much cheaper than the Leman coast, but have seen quite large increases recently, and in Neuchâtel, areas like the Val-de-Ruz and Eastern Neuchâtel to Biel/Bienne too. Not reached our area for expats yet (perhaps never will- although there are 3 Brits in our village) but for locals- as the price of land including infrastructure is less than 100CHF per m2- so 'ordinary' families can build their own home with plenty of space, at the price of a 1 bed flat down by the lake.

There is increased pressure to de-zone farming land from some- causing an understanding counter reaction to fight for farming land to remain so- for all sorts of reasons. People do not want to lose the countryside and do not want to rely on imported food, be it meat, dairy or fruit and veg. I certainly know that locals here would fight tooth and nail to stop any farming land being made available for large housing estates or industries.

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Old 14.04.2015, 15:06
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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Land that was farm land gets reclassified in CH on a regular basis
... creating residential building land which is snapped up by punters willing to pay through the nose, as I mentioned before. The rate at which these small pockets of agricultural land are rezoned has no impact on residential land values -- just as someone deciding one day to sell 100 kg of gold would have no impact on the global price of gold.

Last edited by 22 yards; 23.04.2015 at 12:32. Reason: Typo
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Old 14.04.2015, 15:54
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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... creating residential building land which are snapped up by punters willing to pay through the nose, as I mentioned before. The rate at which these small pockets of agricultural land are rezoned has no impact on residential land values -- just as someone deciding one day to sell 100 kg of gold would have no impact on the global price of gold.
The UK could double the amount of land used for housing & even then 1/5 of the country would be built on, don't know the figures for CH however when driving about there are huge areas of nothing followed by high density housing.
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  #46  
Old 14.04.2015, 16:02
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Very different to compare the two- as Switzerland has so much space which is not suitable for either farming or housing- like mountains and lakes. So you need to compare the amount of available land built on or arable- not just % of surface.

The UK of course goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. Most relatives live in the very dense London area- and keep saying the UK is 'full to the brim' and yet that are huge areas with no settlements of any kind for 100s of miles. When we lived in East Leics we could drive right over to the Eastern coast without crossing any major settlement, apart from skirting past Peterborough. Same for Lincolnshire, Northumberland, and of course Wales, Scotland, etc, etc, etc. Not found actual figures taking above into account, but I am abso sure that the % of available land built on is significantly larger here than in UK overall.
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Old 14.04.2015, 16:07
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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I'm reasonably confident that no new land will be created in the urban areas of Switzerland in the foreseeable future. I don't see land being reclaimed from Lakes Zürich or Geneva, or the Rhine being bridged over to create building lots. There are some pockets of farmland on the outskirts of most cities which could feasibly become zoned for residential use, but you can bet your bottom franc that these will be priced to the market, and probably with a premium for their (currently) "beautiful rural outlook".
The lakes are not likely to be filled in any time soon (even though there have been some crazy proposals in the past), but I think in the case of Basel there is definitely a trend if not a push to expand into the neighbouring bits of France and Germany. The tram to Weil wasn't put in purely to make life easier for cross-border shoppers (remember, most of the money was put up by the Basel side and most of the protest came from the Weil side, despite in terms of what's happening in the shops, Weil being a net winner and Basel a net loser - so either Weil was extremely short sighted or they see something coming that we don't). Seeing Basel is now planning a similar tram to Saint Louis, the Basel side obviously sees this type of infrastructure as more strategic than these superficial and initial disadvantages.

Of course that's talking supply side. What the demand side will do is anybody's guess. Will population (and their ability to pay high prices) continue to grow, or will there be some limit or even reversal at some point?
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Old 14.04.2015, 16:21
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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Very different to compare the two- as Switzerland has so much space which is not suitable for either farming or housing- like mountains and lakes. So you need to compare the amount of available land built on or arable- not just % of surface.

The UK of course goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. Most relatives live in the very dense London area- and keep saying the UK is 'full to the brim' and yet that are huge areas with no settlements of any kind for 100s of miles. When we lived in East Leics we could drive right over to the Eastern coast without crossing any major settlement, apart from skirting past Peterborough. Same for Lincolnshire, Northumberland, and of course Wales, Scotland, etc, etc, etc. Not found actual figures taking above into account, but I am abso sure that the % of available land built on is significantly larger here than in UK overall.
There was in the post-war period a plan in the UK to create a number of new cities from scratch. This plan was never fully realised but the likes of Milton Keynes show what we could have been seeing quite a bit more of. Similarly, Switzerland has seen think tanks talk about things like creating a new city from scratch somewhere in a remote corner of the Jura area. This could have taken some of the pressure off existing cities. More recently, when the new Gotthard rail tunnel was built there was similarly a plan to build a so-called Porta Alpina with lifts taking people from an underground station to the surface. Being an hour from both Milano and Zürich and surrounded by beautiful mountains, such a location would have had the potential to be a valuable hub for both tourism and business. But then the idea lost momentum as various flaws were revealed and it was finally dropped altogether. But I wouldn't be surprised if the new city idea were to resurface at some point.

In the UK the problem is that there are quite a few cities in the north who are struggling economically while slowly depopulating, while the pressure on real estate and infrastructure in London is just crazy. Many governments have promised to redress this balance but so far it hasn't really happened.
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  #49  
Old 14.04.2015, 16:26
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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There was in the post-war period a plan in the UK to create a number of new cities from scratch. This plan was never fully realised but the likes of Milton Keynes show what we could have been seeing quite a bit more of. Similarly, Switzerland has seen think tanks talk about things like creating a new city from scratch somewhere in a remote corner of the Jura area. This could have taken some of the pressure off existing cities. More recently, when the new Gotthard rail tunnel was built there was similarly a plan to build a so-called Porta Alpina with lifts taking people from an underground station to the surface. Being an hour from both Milano and Zürich and surrounded by beautiful mountains, such a location would have had the potential to be a valuable hub for both tourism and business. But then the idea lost momentum as various flaws were revealed and it was finally dropped altogether. But I wouldn't be surprised if the new city idea were to resurface at some point.

In the UK the problem is that there are quite a few cities in the north who are struggling economically while slowly depopulating, while the pressure on real estate and infrastructure in London is just crazy. Many governments have promised to redress this balance but so far it hasn't really happened.
It practically has done with the Docklands.

It would be great to develop a modern, eco-friendly and car-free city.
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Old 14.04.2015, 16:40
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

There have been several attempts, one in East Leicestershire near where I used to live- with all infrastructure, trams, etc- but the opposition from locals was massive. it was of course a Labour led project in fiercely Conservative rural land- so no surprise there then.
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Old 14.04.2015, 16:55
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Just shoot the local NIMBYs.

I say we flatten Sutton St Edmunds and build a vertical city on a circular footprint with a 1km radius.
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Old 14.04.2015, 17:13
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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Just shoot the local NIMBYs.

I say we flatten Sutton St Edmunds and build a vertical city on a circular footprint with a 1km radius.
Yup, great idea. The Tokyo Tower of Babel has already been proposed -- 10 km tall with accommodation for 30 million people. It's the way of the future! (I'm glad I live in the present!)


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Old 22.04.2015, 14:41
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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I wouldn't touch a Baurecht property with a barge pole.
OK, maaaaaaaybeeeee I'd make an exception for this little jewel:

http://www.stadtzug.ch/dl.php/de/551...umentation.pdf


Historic Bauernhaus. Steuerparadis Zug. Auf dem Land. Only 50k.*


*Bidding starts at 50K, that is...
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Old 22.04.2015, 22:23
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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OK, maaaaaaaybeeeee I'd make an exception for this little jewel:

http://www.stadtzug.ch/dl.php/de/551...umentation.pdf


Historic Bauernhaus. Steuerparadis Zug. Auf dem Land. Only 50k.*


*Bidding starts at 50K, that is...
The pictures do not tell all though. It's on the outskirts of an industrial estate and bounded by main roads on two sides.
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Old 23.04.2015, 07:17
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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The pictures do not tell all though. It's on the outskirts of an industrial estate and bounded by main roads on two sides.
Aha...

OK, back to my earlier barge pole comment.
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Old 23.04.2015, 07:33
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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The pictures do not tell all though. It's on the outskirts of an industrial estate and bounded by main roads on two sides.
Actually the pics further down do give you a good idea of its location. Doesn't seem to be that near to the industrial area to me and although there are two main roads, it sits further back from them than our house does to our main road.

Meloncollie, if you're interested then go and have a look. Only you can decide if it's somewhere you'd want to buy.
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Old 23.04.2015, 07:41
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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Actually the pics further down do give you a good idea of its location. Doesn't seem to be that near to the industrial area to me and although there are two main roads, it sits further back from them than our house does to our main road.

Meloncollie, if you're interested then go and have a look. Only you can decide if it's somewhere you'd want to buy.
Nah, not interested, merely intrigued. Stumbled upon it by accident, on the way to looking up something else. It's not for me - but since 'affordable' and Zug' are two words that are almost never found in the same sentence, I thought to post it here.

I've pretty much given up on the dream of a Swiss Bauernhaus and am instead focusing my search on Lake Michigan.

But back on topic - actually owning the dirt under my feet is still very important. Or in the case of Lake Michigan, the sand between my toes.
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Old 23.04.2015, 09:07
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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Nah, not interested, merely intrigued. Stumbled upon it by accident, on the way to looking up something else. It's not for me - but since 'affordable' and Zug' are two words that are almost never found in the same sentence, I thought to post it here.

I've pretty much given up on the dream of a Swiss Bauernhaus and am instead focusing my search on Lake Michigan.

But back on topic - actually owning the dirt under my feet is still very important. Or in the case of Lake Michigan, the sand between my toes.
There are plenty of affordable houses in Switzerland. They're just deep deep in the sticks and reachable only by multi-hour drives along dirt tracks. Take a sniff around the various Ferienhaus websites and you'll find some Bauernhaus or Rustico places for under 200K, if you're not too picky maybe even for under 100K. But due to their location probably at best suited as a vacation house.
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Old 25.04.2015, 09:40
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But due to their location probably at best suited as a vacation house.
Aye, there's the rub.

A holiday home in Switzerland makes little sense for us, as what little holiday time we have needs to be spent in the US.

But we are only going to be here another 10 years or so, which in Swiss terms is a 'don't bother unpacking' timeline - so I'm no longer (seriously) searching.

---

But back on topic... I would imagine that Zuger farmhouse will go for far higher than the minimum bid, simply because it's a unique property in Zug. But there is the issue of renovation.

So... how much capital investment is it worth putting into a property if one doesn't own the land? That's the question with a Baurecht sale.
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Old 25.04.2015, 10:55
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Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

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I've pretty much given up on the dream of a Swiss Bauernhaus . . .
It shouldn't be impossible, although it is not made to be easy and you have to understand the rules. If you've looked into it in detail, you'll probably already have come across something like this, which is a nice summary: (ger) link
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