Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13.04.2015, 21:49
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,400
Groaned at 434 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Buying a house but renting the land?

Maybe someone in this situation can explain to me? What the point to buy a house on a land you can't buy but only rent?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13.04.2015, 21:52
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Have a look at this:

http://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-...he-difference/

A lot of houses in the UK are leasehold, where you own the house but not the land.

It seemed very strange to me in the beginning but, well, you get used to anything
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 13.04.2015, 21:56
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,131
Groaned at 343 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 11,881 Times in 5,778 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quite often the case in several countries. Just check how long the lease for the land is and at what conditions you can renew.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13.04.2015, 21:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quote:
View Post
Quite often the case in several countries. Just check how long the lease for the land is and at what conditions you can renew.
Is it? I'd never heard of such a thing until I lived in England... which doesn't mean much, let's face it...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:03
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,131
Groaned at 343 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 11,881 Times in 5,778 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Have seen it in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium :-)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:09
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,400
Groaned at 434 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Ok I'll give you an example.

You buy a house, here in Switzerland for let's say, 800 000 chf. The land belongs to the city which you have to pay 8000 chf per year.

I don't get it. Why would someone agreed to it? Why to buy a house you don't own the land under it?



I am totally clueless on this and just looking to understand the why.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,360
Groaned at 29 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 23,691 Times in 7,477 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Two threads on properties held in Baurecht:

Some explanations:
Baurecht (ground rent)

And a cautionary tale:
baurecht zins (construction interest?)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quote:
View Post
Have seen it in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium :-)
Well, there you go, live and learn
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:17
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,329
Groaned at 340 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 17,883 Times in 9,696 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quote:
View Post
Ok I'll give you an example.

You buy a house, here in Switzerland for let's say, 800 000 chf. The land belongs to the city which you have to pay 8000 chf per year.

I don't get it. Why would someone agreed to it? Why to buy a house you don't own the land under it?



I am totally clueless on this and just looking to understand the why.
Depending on the value of the land, it's probably a very good deal, just how long is the rent fixed?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:18
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,744
Groaned at 225 Times in 190 Posts
Thanked 22,390 Times in 9,513 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quote:
View Post
Ok I'll give you an example.

You buy a house, here in Switzerland for let's say, 800 000 chf. The land belongs to the city which you have to pay 8000 chf per year.

I don't get it. Why would someone agreed to it? Why to buy a house you don't own the land under it?
because its cheaper at the moment of purchase?

in some cases it can even be cheaper overall. Maybe today interest rates are so low that its no longer the case, but at times of high interest rates the monthly rent may actually be lower than interest you'd pay to the bank if you bought the land with borrowed money.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:22
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,360
Groaned at 29 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 23,691 Times in 7,477 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quote:
View Post
Ok I'll give you an example.

You buy a house, here in Switzerland for let's say, 800 000 chf. The land belongs to the city which you have to pay 8000 chf per year.

I don't get it. Why would someone agreed to it? Why to buy a house you don't own the land under it?



I am totally clueless on this and just looking to understand the why.
If you don't own the land there is no fundamental value, IMO. I wouldn't touch a Baurecht property with a barge pole. But then, I come from a mindset where owning land is very important.

That said, a couple of the Zürichsee communities keep stretches of the lakefront in Baurecht, where the buyers own the house, the community corporation retains ownership of the land. I would guess this is done to maintain control of lakefront development. The Baurechtzins - the annual land rent - can be as much as 6 figures on some of those luxury villas.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

In the UK it is only common for houses in London- and I imagine all over the world where land is in very short supply and very expensive. It is common all over the UK for apartments though- we own an apartment which is leasehold in the Midlands and pay ground rent once a year (which is quite low, about £200 a year).

I agree it does seem weird- and I'd much rather have a house where I own the land too- but in some parts of the world, this is only for the very wealthy.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:46
smackerjack's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: U.K/VAUD
Posts: 2,179
Groaned at 14 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,462 Times in 1,057 Posts
smackerjack has a reputation beyond reputesmackerjack has a reputation beyond reputesmackerjack has a reputation beyond reputesmackerjack has a reputation beyond reputesmackerjack has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

It is actually quite common in the UK that if you are in an apartment block with say 10 apartment quite often you can get together and buy the Freehold together- then you own the land.
You sometimes see an apartment for sale in London at quite a cheap price but the leasehold is say 23 years - it is not unusual for leaseholds to be 99 years +. You can then pay the freeholder to extend the lease to say 75 years - at a price!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:47
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 892
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 473 Times in 297 Posts
simple_person has earned the respect of manysimple_person has earned the respect of manysimple_person has earned the respect of many
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Someone in my office told me that he leased land from a church for 100 years and built a home over it. He told that few years ago it was possible for church to sell land but there were some cases of fraud and now it is forbidden for them to sell their land.

Quote:
View Post
Maybe someone in this situation can explain to me? What the point to buy a house on a land you can't buy but only rent?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:47
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,329
Groaned at 340 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 17,883 Times in 9,696 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quote:
In the UK it is only common for houses in London- and I imagine all over the world where land is in very short supply and very expensive. It is common all over the UK for apartments though- we own an apartment which is leasehold in the Midlands and pay ground rent once a year (which is quite low, about £200 a year).

I agree it does seem weird- and I'd much rather have a house where I own the land too- but in some parts of the world, this is only for the very wealthy.
Strictly speaking, all land in England, Wales and Scotland belongs to the Crown.

Freehold is ownership of an estate in land rather than the land itself. This distinction dates back to the Middle Ages and makes relatively little difference nowadays, so legal authorities often do not bother to distinguish between ownership of the land and ownership of an estate.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:47
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Geneva
Posts: 3,047
Groaned at 32 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 3,843 Times in 1,723 Posts
Anjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quote:
In the UK it is only common for houses in London- and I imagine all over the world where land is in very short supply and very expensive. It is common all over the UK for apartments though- we own an apartment which is leasehold in the Midlands and pay ground rent once a year (which is quite low, about £200 a year).

I agree it does seem weird- and I'd much rather have a house where I own the land too- but in some parts of the world, this is only for the very wealthy.
It's not just London, although it's possibly more common in the south.
Basically any area where there are remnants of monastic lands and which often became charitable institutions after the English Reformation, Saint John's Hospital in Oxfordshire being one, still own vast tracts of land that has since had housing built on, with the original leases often being 999 years long.
It was a way of keeping the original land which was often obtained through donation and have restrictive covenants, and using it to generate an income.

There's no stigma attached to buying such a house; two examples, my SIL lives in one on the outskirts of Oxford, mid-victorian, huge garden, very sort after area, with a ground rent of a pound a year.... and she's not paid it for the past thirty years!
Friends in central London live in a three-bed basement flat which is apparently worth two million pounds, ground rent is three hundred a year....
I'd seriously consider my SIL's place if offered the chance to buy it, but wouldn't touch the London place with a barge pole.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 13.04.2015, 22:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Geneva
Posts: 3,047
Groaned at 32 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 3,843 Times in 1,723 Posts
Anjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond reputeAnjela has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quote:
View Post
Strictly speaking, all land in England, Wales and Scotland belongs to the Crown.

Freehold is ownership of an estate in land rather than the land itself. This distinction dates back to the Middle Ages and makes relatively little difference nowadays, so legal authorities often do not bother to distinguish between ownership of the land and ownership of an estate.
Nope, I own my land in the UK.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Anjela for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 13.04.2015, 23:10
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,765
Groaned at 271 Times in 177 Posts
Thanked 16,821 Times in 7,123 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

also, in the UK there are strong lease renewal rights, which means you can indefinitely extend the lease (for little cost) providing you do so at the right time.

also, there are laws to allow you to buy out the freeholder. due to the magic of compound interest, the economic value of the reversion interest is usually much lower than the 'psychological' value.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 13.04.2015, 23:13
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 11,479
Groaned at 180 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 17,861 Times in 7,560 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

Quote:
View Post
Is it? I'd never heard of such a thing until I lived in England... which doesn't mean much, let's face it...
Quote:
View Post
Have seen it in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium :-)
I have to admit that I also thought it was a particularly British thing as it is quite common everywhere there especially for flats and is not only found London but countrywide.
I never saw it at all in either Germany or Belgium in almost twenty years of living there. (4 in Germany and 15 in Belgium).

It has it's pros and cons but I have to say that personally I prefer to own the land too. Our first property in the UK was leasehold and the ground rent was peanuts (£5 per year IIRC) and we never paid it as the freeholder never bothered to collect it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 14.04.2015, 00:25
me.anon's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: thun
Posts: 2,061
Groaned at 41 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 2,710 Times in 1,311 Posts
me.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying a house but renting the land?

There are lots of consumer articles about purchasing a house on leasehold land: e.g. (ger) https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/d/wenn-...r-fessel-wird/
Important, amongst other things, is getting the price right (because it is now dependent on the remaining duration of the lease) and carefully regulating what happens when the lease for the land expires.
See also(ger):
https://www.google.ch/?gws_rd=ssl#ne...aurecht+kaufen
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank me.anon for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
renting a house vs. renting an apartment Tony_Fernandes Housing in general 11 01.09.2013 07:31
Buying a house in French speaking town but want children to go to German school rnessmith Family matters/health 11 14.08.2012 13:27
Buying a house and renting... on B permit. Jaceq Housing in general 12 11.02.2012 20:33
Buying a house, but could I rent it out if I returned to the UK? reddog Housing in general 6 05.01.2012 12:05
Buying a house, then renting out a small part of it greencelery Housing in general 3 22.07.2010 16:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0