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  #21  
Old 21.05.2015, 17:12
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Re: Boundary dispute

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Why on earth would they need to paint a hedge to look like a tree
to camouflage it?
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  #22  
Old 21.05.2015, 17:13
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Re: Boundary dispute

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The construction itself may be visible. The fact that it was constructed without the neighbour's consent my not be so clear.
If it is not entered in the grundbuchauszug - and the neighbour asks for it to be removed from their property - it has to be removed at the OPs cost.

There are no ifs, not buts, no "I didn't see it", no "they have to prove who built it" - the OP pays. End of.

And if the OP goes to a lawyer they will say:
If it is not entered in the grundbuchauszug - and the neighbour asks for it to be removed from their property - it has to be removed at your cost.
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  #23  
Old 21.05.2015, 17:17
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Re: Boundary dispute

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If it is not entered in the grundbuchauszug - and the neighbour asks for it to be removed from their property - it has to be removed at the OPs cost.

There are no ifs, not buts, no "I didn't see it", no "they have to prove who built it" - the OP pays. End of.

And if the OP goes to a lawyer will say:
If it is not entered in the grundbuchauszug - and the neighbour asks for it to be removed from their property - it has to be removed at your cost.
100% agreed. The new owner of the property, Miss Mac, has the primary responsibility to correct the situation. The question is if she has a potential case against the previous owner of her property for compensation.
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Old 21.05.2015, 17:21
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Re: Boundary dispute

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100% agreed. The new owner of the property, Miss Mac, has the primary responsibility to correct the situation. The question is if she has a potential case against the previous owner of her property for compensation.
No - or to put it another way, for what?

For hiding a structure in plain sight?
For the OP not performing due diligence in checking the Grundbuch?
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Old 21.05.2015, 17:26
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Re: Boundary dispute

let's hope the house itself had planning permission, else the OP might end up knocking down more than a ledge
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Old 21.05.2015, 17:57
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Re: Boundary dispute

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No - or to put it another way, for what?

For hiding a structure in plain sight?
For the OP not performing due diligence in checking the Grundbuch?
point 1. Already answered. See Below.

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The construction itself may be visible. The fact that it was constructed without the neighbour's consent my not be so clear.
Point 2. More interesting. What amount of 'due diligence' is expected of the purchaser ?. Especially discovering mismatches between the current object and the description in the 'Grundbuch'. The previous owner had a clear duty to get the necessary permissions to construct an object which impinged on the neighbour's property. see (ger) http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...,d.d24&cad=rjt
A failure to disclose this may make the previous owner liable to compensate the current owner (Miss Mac) for the costs associated with remedying the impingement on the neighbour's property.
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  #27  
Old 21.05.2015, 18:05
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Re: Boundary dispute

Agreed- but no-one on EF can really help. Whether the OP was deliberately misled or has not checked carefully enough the Grundbuch, needs to be assessed by an expert in such matters urgently. Perhaps initially the agency that sold the house and the Gemeinde, and the original owner if you know of their whereabouts.

EF is certainly not the place to get a definte answer, truly. Bonne chance.
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  #28  
Old 21.05.2015, 18:22
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Re: Boundary dispute

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Point 2. More interesting. What amount of 'due diligence' is expected of the purchaser ?. Especially discovering mismatches between the current object and the description in the 'Grundbuch'. The previous owner had a clear duty to get the necessary permissions to construct an object which impinged on the neighbour's property. see (ger) http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...,d.d24&cad=rjt
A failure to disclose this may make the previous owner liable to compensate the current owner (Miss Mac) for the costs associated with remedying the impingement on the neighbour's property.
If the previous owner had been given permission it would be noted in the Grundbuch - it is as simple as that.

If it is is the Grundbuch the neighbour has no recourse.
If it isn't then the current owner is liable.
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  #29  
Old 21.05.2015, 18:48
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Re: Boundary dispute

Thanks for all the replies. I've attached some photos now for you to see the offending ledge. The wire fence is our boundary.

When we purchased the house this was very obscured by all the undergrowth; thick blackberry brambles and a variety of bushes. With hindsight we should have done a more thorough check, lesson learnt.

My first step will be speaking with the notary who handled the sale to see whether this is legal or not. At the moment the BDWM have been very laid back in their approach. They have been clearing the area for a year now and this is the first mention of it. I just wanted to see what options we might have. I've got a few ideas now, thanks again guys!
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  #30  
Old 21.05.2015, 18:49
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Re: Boundary dispute

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Thanks for all the replies. I've attached some photos now for you to see the offending ledge. The wire fence is our boundary.

When we purchased the house this was very obscured by all the undergrowth; thick blackberry brambles and a variety of bushes. With hindsight we should have done a more thorough check, lesson learnt.

My first step will be speaking with the notary who handled the sale to see whether this is legal or not. At the moment the BDWM have been very laid back in their approach. They have been clearing the area for a year now and this is the first mention of it. I just wanted to see what options we might have. I've got a few ideas now, thanks again guys!
so everything to the right of the fence is on the neighbour's land. one thing that isn't clear, how is that ledge supported from below? what would need to happen to remove it?
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  #31  
Old 21.05.2015, 18:54
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Re: Boundary dispute

Ouch- that is a large area From the photo about 2 m wide. Same question- how is it supported?
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Old 21.05.2015, 18:56
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Re: Boundary dispute

Yes everything to the right is the BDWM land. The 'path' you can see is what they have constructed since clearing the land. Our ledge is the 5 railway sleepers you can see right by the fence, between the green bin and the brambles. It's supported below by sleepers too.
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Old 21.05.2015, 19:10
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Re: Boundary dispute

So it is actually their path to the right?!

My main worry now is how will your land be supported and not slip sideways into the railway sidings once the bank is removed??? Providing proper support will be a LOT more expensive than the removal. It will probably require very expensive deeply dug- in vertical posts?

You need the urgent advice of a civil engineer here- as well as legal advice. How was your property/garden supported before the 'ledge'?

Last edited by Odile; 21.05.2015 at 19:23.
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Old 21.05.2015, 19:20
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Re: Boundary dispute

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Yes everything to the right is the BDWM land. The 'path' you can see is what they have constructed since clearing the land. Our ledge is the 5 railway sleepers you can see right by the fence, between the green bin and the brambles. It's supported below by sleepers too.
it looks like it will take a few minutes work to remove the sleepers. doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

seems a bit weird that it is there anyway. what is it being used for?
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  #35  
Old 21.05.2015, 20:37
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Re: Boundary dispute

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it looks like it will take a few minutes work to remove the sleepers. doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

seems a bit weird that it is there anyway. what is it being used for?
Compost bins and other gardening paraphenalia by the looks of it.
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  #36  
Old 21.05.2015, 20:49
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Re: Boundary dispute

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it looks like it will take a few minutes work to remove the sleepers. doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
Exactly. Just push them over that hill to the right.
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  #37  
Old 21.05.2015, 21:10
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Re: Boundary dispute

If that boundary fence was there when you moved in you would have no reason to check the details of what is the other side of it as far as I can see. If the green compost bin is yours and you have been making use of the area it would be harder to deny any knowledge or responsibility.
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Old 22.05.2015, 01:05
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Re: Boundary dispute

This is not a boundary dispute, in my opinion. If the fence is on the boundary, everything on the other side of it is not your property and you cannot use it unless there is an agreement in place. Was the fence there when you bought the house? Have you checked for lot markers? The fence may have required permission to build and if so you should ask for those papers.

Call a gardener to remove the compost bin and the timbers under it. They need special disposal, as far as I know.

If you cannot find a gardener then look for a Tiefbau firm.
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Old 22.05.2015, 08:14
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Re: Boundary dispute

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Call a gardener to remove the compost bin and the timbers under it. They need special disposal, as far as I know.

If you cannot find a gardener then look for a Tiefbau firm.
Sod that - if the wood is in decent condition - and is nice and thick - I'll come and take it away

I'd have a good used for that wood
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Old 22.05.2015, 08:57
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Re: Boundary dispute

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This is not a boundary dispute, in my opinion.
I'd agree, you bought what was inside the boundary.

It doesn't look like the platform crosses the boundary, so as a purchaser I would have reasonably assumed it belonged to the neighbour.

Unless of course you've changed things since you bought and it was more clear previously.

I'd move the bins off it and reply that you're sorry for using the space, their platform is now clear for them to remove if they wish.
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