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  #41  
Old 18.09.2015, 15:05
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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For me, the very fact that someone has to ask on EF how to do it = best not to do it.
I'm not asking how to do it, just clarifying if there are any special precautions to be taken or any special equipment required.
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  #42  
Old 18.09.2015, 15:11
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

obviously got our wires crossed here?

Do you ever stop to ask for directions (or did, before you had that GPS woman to tell you where to go)? lol. You obviously do not feel totally sure, otherwise you wouldn't be asking, would you. Bonne chance ... When will the new flat be ready btw?
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  #43  
Old 18.09.2015, 15:11
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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I'm not asking how to do it, just clarifying if there are any special precautions to be taken or any special equipment required.
Tin foil hat?
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  #44  
Old 18.09.2015, 15:17
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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I'm not asking how to do it, just clarifying if there are any special precautions to be taken or any special equipment required.
These are the necessary basic tools:
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1...1&groupID=1431
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1 363&groupID=1393
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1...3&groupID=1376
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1...7&groupID=1472
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1...9&groupID=1310
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1...2&groupID=2138
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1...4&groupID=1524
http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1...4&groupID=1525


Or a knife and your teeth.
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  #45  
Old 18.09.2015, 15:26
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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230/400 is NOT high voltage.

Tom
From the point of view of the electrocutee, it's high!
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  #46  
Old 18.09.2015, 15:30
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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To wire up 2 plugs? You're joking, right?

380v, time to get to you, etc, probably not.

Coffins lot more expensive though.....
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  #47  
Old 18.09.2015, 15:34
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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OK, getting very mixed messages here. Presuming I can wire up a standard 3-pin Swiss plug correctly (as I have done many times in the past), what exactly are the potential risks? Both machines will be on a trip, so what else could go wrong?
Assuming you don't do a crap job of the plug and create a hot spot due to bad connections, a gap in the insulation, or ignore the helpful strain relief and leave a cm or so of conductor without the outer sheath...all common themes on kit I've found in hotel rooms, borrowed or inherited

Worst case - you connect your appliance that's expecting 230V across two phases by accident, and it gets 400V which is unlikely to do it much good.

- solution, if you have a volt meter, check the socket is actually wired correctly, and make sure you wire the plug correctly.

Apart from that, as long as you can identify the wires in the appliance, the terminals in the plug, and the socket is OK then I wouldn't be too worried.
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  #48  
Old 18.09.2015, 15:52
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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OK, getting very mixed messages here. Presuming I can wire up a standard 3-pin Swiss plug correctly (as I have done many times in the past), what exactly are the potential risks? Both machines will be on a trip, so what else could go wrong?
If you can wire up a plug correctly and know which colour goes where and are able to trust the socket is correctly wired and the fuses are correctly installed and rated, you really have nothing to worry about.

For any installation operating in a potentially damp environment (as which any room with a washing machine qualifies), an FI breaker is also strongly recommended. But seeing this room is intended to be used for a washing machine, I guess that will already be the case.
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  #49  
Old 18.09.2015, 16:05
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

I presume the socket is wired correctly, since the previous tenants had their appliances in there.
Questions:
If I put a multi-phase plug and it isn't needed, what happens?
If I put a standard 3 pin and a multi-phase is needed, what happens?
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  #50  
Old 18.09.2015, 16:10
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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I presume the socket is wired correctly, since the previous tenants had their appliances in there.
Questions:
If I put a multi-phase plug and it isn't needed, what happens?
If I put a standard 3 pin and a multi-phase is needed, what happens?

Is needed by what? Your appliances?
In the first case: You just wire the 3 pins of the T13 part of the T15 plug.
In the second case: You have two spare wires in your cable which you can not wire to any pin. So cut them off. May be the control board works, maybe the water pump works, may be the motor works as well, may be you have just a third of the heating power. Maybe nothing works.
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  #51  
Old 18.09.2015, 16:12
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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I presume the socket is wired correctly, since the previous tenants had their appliances in there.
Questions:
If I put a multi-phase plug and it isn't needed, what happens?
If I put a standard 3 pin and a multi-phase is needed, what happens?
If multi phase is needed, the device will have a multi-phase cable, that is one with five conductors. So you can't fit a three pin plug without obviously leaving something out.

If you manage to do that nevertheless, the washing machine won't work. Nothing will explode or electrocute. No danger.

If you put in a multi-phase plug where it isn't needed, everything will still work. Only you'll have an overkill, and possibly in your next place of residence there won't be a five pin socket so you'd have to wire it over again (and buy another plug). Also, if you have only three pins to chose from there's less risk of wiring something wrong. Stick with three pin if you can.

As a rule of thumb the simplest solution that is good enough and fulfills the safety requirements is always the best. Complexity is the achilles heel of any technical system.
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  #52  
Old 18.09.2015, 16:22
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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If multi phase is needed, the device will have a multi-phase cable, that is one with five conductors. So you can't fit a three pin plug without obviously leaving something out.

If you manage to do that nevertheless, the washing machine won't work. Nothing will explode or electrocute. No danger.

If you put in a multi-phase plug where it isn't needed, everything will still work. Only you'll have an overkill, and possibly in your next place of residence there won't be a five pin socket so you'd have to wire it over again (and buy another plug). Also, if you have only three pins to chose from there's less risk of wiring something wrong. Stick with three pin if you can.

As a rule of thumb the simplest solution that is good enough and fulfills the safety requirements is always the best. Complexity is the achilles heel of any technical system.
Well the devices both have only 3 wires, E, L and N, so that puts that question to bed. I presume having a 5-pin socket allows for a multi-phase if needed. I spoke to the missus and she said the new washing machine came with a 3-pin plug, but they had to remove it to wire it into the wall and all these appliances in Fust etc have 3-pin plugs already attached.
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  #53  
Old 18.09.2015, 16:26
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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Is needed by what? Your appliances?
In the first case: You just wire the 3 pins of the T13 part of the T15 plug.
In the second case: You have two spare wires in your cable which you can not wire to any pin. So cut them off. May be the control board works, maybe the water pump works, may be the motor works as well, may be you have just a third of the heating power. Maybe nothing works.
Good point. How many individual wires are in the cables to the Washing Machine and Tumble dryer? It is not clear from the OP but since the goal is to use a 3 pin plug, the assumption has been that it is 3. If it is 5, the dilemma will be what do do with the other 2 wires.
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  #54  
Old 18.09.2015, 16:34
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

This thread is so typical of the EF.

The OP asks a simple question that has a simple answer but lots of people provide information that is totally correct but just confuses the OP, and then start quibbling over details that are irrelvant to the original question.
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Old 18.09.2015, 16:43
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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Good point. How many individual wires are in the cables to the Washing Machine and Tumble dryer? It is not clear from the OP but since the goal is to use a 3 pin plug, the assumption has been that it is 3. If it is 5, the dilemma will be what do do with the other 2 wires.
It's not quite as simple as counting the wires - there are actually several options:

2 wires = 230V L N no earth

3 wires = 230V L N E -or- 400V L1 L2 E

4 wires = L1 L2 N E -or- L1 L2 L3 E

5 wires = L1 L2 L3 N E

(I don't think there are any sensible cases with more than two wires but no earth)

I have an oven that is 400V L1 L2 E and a hob that is L2 L3 N E.

In any case though you can wire it through a five pin plug just by not connecting the pins you don't need.
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  #56  
Old 18.09.2015, 16:45
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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Well the devices both have only 3 wires, E, L and N, so that puts that question to bed. I presume having a 5-pin socket allows for a multi-phase if needed. I spoke to the missus and she said the new washing machine came with a 3-pin plug, but they had to remove it to wire it into the wall and all these appliances in Fust etc have 3-pin plugs already attached.
Sounds like you have the option of using 3-pin plugs for the washing machine on the 5-pin socket. You'll find many YouTube clips for help in wiring them up. What of the dryer, which will definitely consume more power between the two? It's probably a 3-phase device, drawing more than 10 amps in total. Best to check the power rating on this one.

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Old 18.09.2015, 19:01
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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Or a knife and your teeth.
Or a Swiss Army knife (you score the insulation with the blade, then strip it with the stripping tool on the large screwdriver blade).

Tom
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  #58  
Old 18.09.2015, 21:58
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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We have exactly the combination that the OP has described with 2 adjacent 3 phase sockets. My wife is currently (!) has a wash load running. As soon as it is finished, I'll check, out of curiosity, if the sockets are so wired, that when 3 pin plugs are inserted in each, they are on different phases. It would be nice if they were from a load point of view, but potentially (!) dangerous in a fault situation, because there could be 400 Volts between 2 devices (iphone on charge and curling tongs, for instance)
(!) puns purely accidental
I've now checked this. A 3 pin plug in a 3 phase socket is on phase L1. This is actually marked by the manufacturer on both the plug and the socket I looked at, so the electrician should have no freedom to change this.
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Old 18.09.2015, 23:25
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

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Just wondering, from the insurance point of view- what could the consequences be of doing it yourself with powerful machine like washer and dryer- same with guarantees? (not saying- just asking).
You lived in the UK in the 1970's & beyond when every appliance needed a plug to be fitted on every appliance you bought. I wired my first plug aged 6.

Has the human race really degenerated so far in 40 years due to health & safety laws? Now everybody seems worries that a nut might get into a salad.........

Survival of the fittest .......
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I've now checked this. A 3 pin plug in a 3 phase socket is on phase L1. This is actually marked by the manufacturer on both the plug and the socket I looked at, so the electrician should have no freedom to change this.
It won't make the slightest difference which phase you use. In many cases you won't even have a choice if you only have 1 phase in the property, not unusual in older properties in CH & totally standard in 95% of UK homes.
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Old 19.09.2015, 07:39
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Re: Electric plugs for washing machine and tumble drier

We eagerly await the answers to Paddy's next question:

- "How to change a lightbulb?"

I wonder how many responses that will yield.
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