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Old 21.09.2015, 11:53
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How much is a lot of earth ?

Hi

weve decided to fill in our pond. It's pretty big so lots of earth will be needed I imagine. Has anyone been through this procedure in Switzerland and could let me know how it went ? I assume the earth is from a ch garden centre ? What was the approx cost for several tonnes ? Any pitfalls ?

Many thanks in advance for any helpful info.
Mike
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Old 21.09.2015, 11:57
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Re: How much is a of of earth ?

I could edit the title..but not sure of the question, "How much is a ton of earth"?
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Old 21.09.2015, 12:00
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Re: How much is a of of earth ?

*party pooper inda house!*

Is this a natural pond, or one of these garden thingies?

If the first - contact the city chamber and ask if you can do it. Secondly, there are rules about which kind of material can be used to fill landscape - basically you can have poorer material on the bottom (though no earth with construction site garbage can be used), and a layer of hummus on the top (might vary according to area - about 30cm-50cm should be enough).

Though you can theoretically do this job yourself, I would advice you to get a gardener to do it. Doesn't need to be a big fancy company... The transportation costs of the material to your place might be rather high if you have a tiny car...
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Old 21.09.2015, 12:14
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Re: How much is a of of earth ?

Once you've figured out what you are allowed to do...

Get quotes for soil from a Gartenbau firm. If you are not pressed for time you might be able to negotiate a deal if the firm has another project where dirt needs to be hauled away.

If you have a deep area to fill that you are later going to plant, consider how much you need to have in good topsoil, which is more expensive, and whether you can fill the bottom with something of a lesser quality.


Alternatively, if you can spread the project out over two (or more) seasons:

We have built new terraces. We'll need a huge amount of dirt to fill. At the same time, we have a huge amount of tree trimming and clean up to do this year as well. So we are shredding the branches and whatnot to put in the bottom of the terraces and we mix in grass clippings and brown matter each week. We are going to let the whole thing compost down over winter, and only next year fill with good soil and then plant. We might even let it compost another season.

This way we get rid of all that garden waste and reduce the amount of soil we will eventually need to buy. Two birds, one stone, etc.

If you have clean up to do and you can live with the project taking longer, you might consider something similar.
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Old 21.09.2015, 12:14
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Re: How much is a of of earth ?

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*party pooper inda house!*

Is this a natural pond, or one of these garden thingies?

If the first - contact the city chamber and ask if you can do it. Secondly, there are rules about which kind of material can be used to fill landscape - basically you can have poorer material on the bottom (though no earth with construction site garbage can be used), and a layer of hummus on the top (might vary according to area - about 30cm-50cm should be enough).

Though you can theoretically do this job yourself, I would advice you to get a gardener to do it. Doesn't need to be a big fancy company... The transportation costs of the material to your place might be rather high if you have a tiny car...
Thanks! It's just a sheet of plastic layer on a dug out hole in the ground with water in it. Not sure what the formal spec of a natural pond is, is it possible to describe one ? I had planned on filling the lot with earth didn't realize anything else could be used.

Title of thread is a mistake should be 'how much is a lot of earth' . Thanks...
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Old 21.09.2015, 13:13
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Re: How much is a of of earth ?

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Title of thread is a mistake should be 'how much is a lot of earth' . Thanks...
It costs a lot. In fact, it costs the earth.
That may not help you much, but this may give you an idea (Ger: ) www.allmig.ch/documents/price_list_2014.pdf of the price per cubic meter (without delivery).
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Old 21.09.2015, 13:30
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

What you need to do is to drop the level of the surrounding garden, by skimming earth, uniformly from the surface by 'x' cm (removing and then replacing turf as you go, where required).

The skimmed earth can be used to fill the pond and you will be left with a flat garden - albeit a few cm lower than before.

Alternatively, you can offer your neighbours (quartier) a free composting service and fill the pond with natural waste, which will compost down, over time, to create new soil, with the addition of a few hundred worms. It may pen'n'ink from time to time, though, when the sun shines and the wind is in the right direction.

The addition of farm waste could help accelerate the process and may be available, locally, cheaply.


What I did, when I needed some dirt to level my garden, was to go to a nearby new house build. There are always mounds of earth excavated for building. After the house is near completion, there will always be surplus earth, even with re-filling around the house and landscaping for garden.

If you ask nicely, and have your own means of removal and transport, you should be able to get a good amount for free - as it's cheaper for them than hiring lorries to take it away.

Timing is everything, though - too early and they wont commit; too late and it's already gone.
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Old 21.09.2015, 15:54
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

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What you need to do is to drop the level of the surrounding garden, by skimming earth, uniformly from the surface by 'x' cm (removing and then replacing turf as you go, where required).

The skimmed earth can be used to fill the pond and you will be left with a flat garden - albeit a few cm lower than before.
The possible issue with this is that the top level of humus may not be so deep. Beneath that could be other things (clay). This is what our garden is like. 40cm of humus and beneath that is clay. Solid clay. The downside of this is that the level of the clay varies somewhat, resulting in bogging in heavy rain, so we had to dig a drainage trench and a soakaway (1m2 by 1m deep)

You could have had 340 kg of earth/clay from us; I took said amount (leftovers from the drainage project) to the recycling centre at the weekend !
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Old 21.09.2015, 16:29
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

I usually have about 2 cubic yds of excess dirt available (approx. 3'x3'x6') every full moon or when the fantasizing starts to build, which ever is sooner...
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Old 21.09.2015, 16:37
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

We considered doing this, and then there was a survey in our area- and we have the only pond in the vicinity which the bats can use for water- and we discovered that it is full of dragonfly larvae, and the ensuing dragonflies, and lots of alpine newts. So we changed our mind.
They asked us to keep both ends clear of long grass and reeds, etc, so bats and swallows can take long sweeping dives over it to drink.

There is a huge problem with loss of wet habitat in Vaud and loss of amphibians- and I do believe I read you have to ask permission to fill in any pond- but will need to check that.

At the very least, it would be great if your could let ProNatura have a look before you fill it in, so any species living there can be rescued and find a new home in some of the new ponds created by the group to address above. Is there a particular reason you want to fill, like danger to young children- out of interest.
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Old 21.09.2015, 17:01
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

Wander around where you live, find a building site or a site where future development is taking place, ask them to deliver a truck of soil to your house.

They have to pay to put it in landfill, so trucking to you will be cheaper.

Check also civil engineers or companies making roads, ask a farmer in the area.

I think a garden center type of place would be very expensive for the amount of earth you want
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Old 21.09.2015, 22:46
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

Quote:
We considered doing this, and then there was a survey in our area- and we have the only pond in the vicinity which the bats can use for water- and we discovered that it is full of dragonfly larvae, and the ensuing dragonflies, and lots of alpine newts. So we changed our mind.
They asked us to keep both ends clear of long grass and reeds, etc, so bats and swallows can take long sweeping dives over it to drink.

There is a huge problem with loss of wet habitat in Vaud and loss of amphibians- and I do believe I read you have to ask permission to fill in any pond- but will need to check that.

At the very least, it would be great if your could let ProNatura have a look before you fill it in, so any species living there can be rescued and find a new home in some of the new ponds created by the group to address above. Is there a particular reason you want to fill, like danger to young children- out of interest.
We just need the space in our garden for the kids things like trampoline, swings etc. plus the danger aspect as they move from toddlers to young children.

We have some friends with similar ponds so will transfer the small amount if fish in it.
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Old 21.09.2015, 22:50
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

I understand- fish is sort of irrelevant from the ecological point of view, but more important would be newts and dragonflies, etc.

Your choice of course- how about filling with stones and gravel, and make it into a wet garden- eg 1inch or so of water- still good for wildlife to some extent, and it could be covered by the trampoline???

Just an idea. Good to know there are other ponds nearby though.
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Old 21.09.2015, 23:11
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

Earth is bought in cubic meters. There are various kinds. depending on use. Do you want the water to drain to the bottom, does it have to be frost protected, etc. They typically range from 50CHF for Earth with compost. About CHF100 for potting soil. About CHF125 for "steingartenerde", which is what you will probably need.

They typically weigh around 1,500 KG per square meter.

Here's an example price list:
http://www.allmig.ch/documents/price_list_2014.pdf
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Old 22.09.2015, 10:34
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

Ricoter has large (1m3 - 3m3) bags of topsoil. Unfortunately they do not sell directly to individuals. I would check with Landi to see if they sell them.

Link so you see what I mean: http://www.ricoter.ch/fr/paysagime-p...-bag/index.php

You also get into the question of access to the area that needs to be filled in. Plus on the $$ side of things (as mentioned by others) it is a bit of a shame to use top soil for filler. It would be better to get some clay (la glaise) to fill in the 90% and then top soil.

For reference, I needed 2m3 of top soil for a garden and I was quoted CHF 320 with delivery from a company just north of where we are. Delivery seems to be the killer.

If you want to do some research on possible options you can have a look at www.anibis.ch(use the search word - terre vegetale).

Here is one option: http://www.tradevegetaux.net/Prix-terre-v-g-tale.html
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Last edited by Verbier; 22.09.2015 at 10:37. Reason: I hit post by mistake.
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Old 22.09.2015, 11:00
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

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Earth is bought in cubic meters. There are various kinds. depending on use. Do you want the water to drain to the bottom, does it have to be frost protected, etc. They typically range from 50CHF for Earth with compost. About CHF100 for potting soil. About CHF125 for "steingartenerde", which is what you will probably need.
Why do you think the OP would want Steingartenerde? - it's too free flowing for an area that is going to have grass on it and rather expensive.



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We just need the space in our garden for the kids things like trampoline, swings etc. plus the danger aspect as they move from toddlers to young children.

.
Some sort of general-purpose sub-soil with a few inches of free-draining topsoil suitable for grass would be best.
Something that doesn't compact too easily would be best for an area where children are going to be jumping about.
Too much clay in the soil would result in a water-logged lawn.

Don't pack the soil down into the hole left by the pond if it is at all wet as you'll ruin the soil structure.
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Old 22.09.2015, 11:39
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

Just remember you will have to wait a few years while it sinks - and it will sink for several years
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Old 22.09.2015, 12:13
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

How big is your pond? We had this small concrete pond in our garden. Not wanting to use it as such, we drilled big holes into the concrete for drainage and and bought 1 cubic metre of rocks to fill it in. We now use this area for bond fires. Rocks can be bought from a gravel pit (try googling 'Kiesgrube' in your area if it is German-speaking) and delivered. Much less expensive than any type of soil I believe. Do not underestimate the amount of work it takes to transfer such a quantity of soil or rocks into your pond if you have it dumped in front of your doorway like we did
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Old 24.09.2015, 09:09
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

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How big is your pond? We had this small concrete pond in our garden. Not wanting to use it as such, we drilled big holes into the concrete for drainage and and bought 1 cubic metre of rocks to fill it in. We now use this area for bond fires. Rocks can be bought from a gravel pit (try googling 'Kiesgrube' in your area if it is German-speaking) and delivered. Much less expensive than any type of soil I believe. Do not underestimate the amount of work it takes to transfer such a quantity of soil or rocks into your pond if you have it dumped in front of your doorway like we did
That is true. We redid a weed-infested wall with stones and it was a lot of work transferring the stones by wheelbarrow and distributing them evenly. It took my wife two days, maybe three.
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Old 24.09.2015, 09:23
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Re: How much is a lot of earth ?

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It took my wife two days, maybe three.
Well done, you!
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