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  #21  
Old 02.11.2015, 23:30
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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Thats a really bad reason to make a huge geared investment.
I know!!!! but finacially we will be far better off than renting - by a lot and we have no intention of moving out of the area, all kids are settled and we have some really great friends here ect ect.
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  #22  
Old 02.11.2015, 23:41
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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I know!!!! but finacially we will be far better off than renting - by a lot and we have no intention of moving out of the area, all kids are settled and we have some really great friends here ect ect.
Apart from the value of the flat, its faults and your financial situation:
Have you ever gotten into a serious fight with these friends and has this ended without any grudges whatsoever? Perhaps evaluating past not-so-nice occurrences with the people you're intending to give quite the chunk of money to might ease your decision-making process.
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Old 02.11.2015, 23:50
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

no we have never argued with them - we dont spend that much time with each other. I am friendly with her, and we get together and chat but never argue - im not very confrontational I tend to just avoid people I dont like.

we are not in each others bussiness really enough to argue - they have thier life we have ours and occsionally we may have drinks together or go up a mountain with the kids for a walk. but thats it, I spend enough energy looking after my sh*t to bother getting involed in anyone elses!
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  #24  
Old 02.11.2015, 23:51
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

On the plus side, your friends are German which could make things easier as they have a reputation of being direct and matter of fact. If you agree on price then you are good to go.
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Old 02.11.2015, 23:54
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

But the thing about the cost of the flat and it not being perfect - Im never going to find my perfect house in switzerland unless I move right out of anywhere Id want to be.
Its just getting over the emotion of it and making the right financial decision I guess. We are not moving back to the UK or anywhere else for the forseeable.....
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  #26  
Old 03.11.2015, 09:16
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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OK, staying away from the job example and sticking with the house purchase, in an ideal world, everything goes perfectly, everyone is happy, everyone stays friend.

However, what if there is a price point disagreement? How long before things turn sour? What about if the seller friend forgets (or "forgets") to mention some big/small issues with the house, that turn up at inspection time? What if the friend is transparent, but they don't agree on who should pay to solve those issues? What if one changes their mind and they get into a legal dispute? As much as one tries to keep a "business" level, the possibilities for this to go wrong and the friendship to be damaged are too many IMO. And no, it's not like dealing with a stranger - if it's a friend, they may be torn between "do I pursue the legal/fighting route" or "do I get scr**ed on my purchase, suck it up, and keep the friendship"? Not a good place to be at.

EDIT: and maybe they live in the same village forever and ever!!! (did not even think of that one Phil).
Which is exactly why you go through due process; get it surveyed, get a proper bank evaluation, get a proper purchase contract drawn up. If there's anything you're not sure about, walk away, no harm done. It's really not rocket science.
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Old 03.11.2015, 09:37
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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I know!!!! but finacially we will be far better off than renting - by a lot and we have no intention of moving out of the area, all kids are settled and we have some really great friends here ect ect.
This is certainly true today, but tomorrow is another day.....

I have to say, this is a very Swiss way of doing things, property very often changes hand by "word of mouth" rather than agents.

I would try and find outn some recent prices in the area and see whether the offer is in the ball park first and then you need to decide how much you wantr the appartment on a scale of 1-10, then how much you willing to pay for it and go accordingly, with 1 paying very cheaply and 10 paying full price.

For a quick sale, no shit and no agent (already saving 2-3%) try with an offer around 8-10% lower and see what happens
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  #28  
Old 03.11.2015, 15:11
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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what about continuing to live with them in the same village for the rest of your lives? that's even more long term.
So what. They're not close. Granted, one party may be disappointed, but that can be anticipated for if OP approaches the deal as if dealing with a stranger, except for the "Du" in the letters. Even if problems arise they won't be sharing flats so reasonably easy to avoid one another.

"Harte Geschäfte gute Freunde."
You're very unlikely to be private friends unless you're doing the business side the tough way, in the sense that both parties are clear about what's included and what not and respect that.

For instance, though OP is given right of first refusal s/he shouldn't expect a particularly low offer. And of course s/he'd be foolish to not negotiate. Home owners most always value their (former) property above market, the longer they've lived there the more above they are - memories, feelings and all, you know. I seem to remember having read that ask 10% above market is commonplace.
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  #29  
Old 03.11.2015, 15:14
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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So what. They're not close. Granted, one party may be disappointed, but that can be anticipated for if OP approaches the deal as if dealing with a stranger, except for the "Du" in the letters. Even if problems arise they won't be sharing flats so reasonably easy to avoid one another.

"Harte Geschäfte gute Freunde."
You're very unlikely to be private friends unless you're doing the business side the tough way, in the sense that both parties are clear about what's included and what not and respect that.

For instance, though OP is given right of first refusal s/he shouldn't expect a particularly low offer. And of course s/he'd be foolish to not negotiate. Home owners most always value their (former) property above market, the longer they've lived there the more above they are - memories, feelings and all, you know. I seem to remember having read that ask 10% above market is commonplace.
If you fail to complete the deal, your name will be blackened. 'Foreigners can't be trusted' as usual.
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  #30  
Old 03.11.2015, 15:19
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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If you fail to complete the deal, your name will be blackened. 'Foreigners can't be trusted' as usual.
What, like the German sellers?
If you can't agree to a price, who's failing to complete the deal?
Standard practice here is to put down 10% in trust with a solicitor once the price is agreed and contract signed. If you pull out, you lose it; if the seller pulls out, they are obliged to repay it.
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  #31  
Old 03.11.2015, 15:23
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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What, like the German sellers?
If you can't agree to a price, who's failing to complete the deal?
Standard practice here is to put down 10% in trust with a solicitor once the price is agreed and contract signed. If you pull out, you lose it; if the seller pulls out, they are obliged to repay it.
And usually your "reasonable costs".
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  #32  
Old 03.11.2015, 15:27
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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And usually your "reasonable costs".
That wasn't stipulated in our sales contract; only the 10%.
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  #33  
Old 03.11.2015, 15:45
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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What, like the German sellers?
If you can't agree to a price, who's failing to complete the deal?
Standard practice here is to put down 10% in trust with a solicitor once the price is agreed and contract signed. If you pull out, you lose it; if the seller pulls out, they are obliged to repay it.
Deposit amount & how it is held is entirely negotiable, like the rest of the contract.

I don't believe the deposit is usually held in trust by the Notary. The notaries function is very different to a Solicitor who acts for his client & his client alone. The deposit is often paid directly to the seller in CH & after the contracts are exchanged rather than at the same time.
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Old 03.11.2015, 15:56
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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Deposit amount & how it is held is entirely negotiable, like the rest of the contract.

I don't believe the deposit is usually held in trust by the Notary. The notaries function is very different to a Solicitor who acts for his client & his client alone. The deposit is often paid directly to the seller in CH & after the contracts are exchanged rather than at the same time.
Sorry, notary, not solicitor.
With our recent flat sale, the money was paid to the notary prior to signing the contract, and only released to us once it had been signed.
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Old 03.11.2015, 16:02
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

Interesting - I checked, and the "reasonable costs" bit was definitely included in the pro-forma purchase commitment that the notary provided.

We paid the deposit direct to the seller as soon as we received our copy of the purchase commitment signed by him. We had seven days to do so as part of that agreement.
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Old 03.11.2015, 16:09
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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Interesting - I checked, and the "reasonable costs" bit was definitely included in the pro-forma purchase commitment that the notary provided.

We paid the deposit direct to the seller as soon as we received our copy of the purchase commitment signed by him. We had seven days to do so as part of that agreement.
Maybe different cantons have slightly procedures regarding this; we paid the 10% deposit for our land to the notary prior to signing.
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  #37  
Old 03.11.2015, 16:17
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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Maybe different cantons have slightly procedures regarding this; we paid the 10% deposit for our land to the notary prior to signing.
I think that's an absolute certainty !
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Old 03.11.2015, 16:24
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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Deposit amount & how it is held is entirely negotiable, like the rest of the contract.

I don't believe the deposit is usually held in trust by the Notary. The notaries function is very different to a Solicitor who acts for his client & his client alone. The deposit is often paid directly to the seller in CH & after the contracts are exchanged rather than at the same time.
It's definately the notary.
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  #39  
Old 03.11.2015, 18:16
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

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It's definately the notary.

You will find with new builds the deposit & stage payments will go to the builder.

When I was buying some land, the seller wanted the deposit, I said no !
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Old 03.11.2015, 20:00
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Re: Buying a Flat from a friend- advice

For me, the rule is not: "Don't do business with friends", but rather: "Do business with friends and family with no less diligence than business with strangers."

If I were to borrow money from a good-work-colleague, or lend money to a cousin, if I were to start a business with a sister, or buy or sell property from parents or children or a friend-from-forever, if I were to employ a friend or be employed by a brother, I would perform all the same checks as I would with a stranger: get legal advice, put every single step down in writing, and make reasonably sure everyone understood the deal in the same way and would be able to live up to the pledges, and have the contract checked by a professional advisor.

If I think my people are "nice", then there is no reason why we shouldn't both take sufficient care to get the deal completely clear, and consult with external sources where necessary (the bank, the lawyers, etc.) until we're sure. Just as I would do with anyone I didn't know at all.
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