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Old 14.11.2015, 11:32
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Rent increase with dishwasher installation

Morning,

We are getting a new dishwasher installed and the landlord wants to increase the rent (by a small amount), and I just wonder if there's any risk / rights I should be aware of?

Cheers

More detail if you care:
We moved into a place without a dishwasher 1.5 years ago.
The landlord says he'll pay the dishwasher and installation for an increase of 15--20 CHF/month.
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Old 14.11.2015, 11:37
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

Did you request the dishwasher as an additional feature, or is he simply wanting to install one? Eiher way, check with the Mietverband if this scenario of him permanently raising rent is legal or not https://www.mieterverband.ch/

if not, then write to the landlord quoting their reply. If so, then you'll just have to lump it.

Sounds to me like a stereotypical money-grabbing ploy from a tight-fisted Swiss landlord, and if you stay there long-term you will end up paying way in advance of what the average dishwasher costs.

It may be more economical to buy your own dishwasher (you can probably get one second hand off of the forum if you advertise for it) and get it professionally installed (usually a quick half hour job, can probably also be advertised for on the forum), and then take it with you or sell it when you move apartments.

Last edited by Chuff; 14.11.2015 at 11:49.
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Old 14.11.2015, 11:47
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

You could refuse the dishwasher. Up to you - do you want one and is 15Fr/month a fair price to you for having one bought and installed?
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Old 14.11.2015, 11:50
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

Not only will the rent increase, but also your electricity bill, if you use the dishwasher!
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Old 14.11.2015, 11:54
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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Not only will the rent increase, but also your electricity bill, if you use the dishwasher!
It's a swap between a decrease in hot water usage (which is usually paid communally as it's not metered) and electricity usage (which is usually paid individually as it's metered).

Googling, a modern dishwasher run daily will cost about 50Fr in electricity costs per year.
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Old 14.11.2015, 11:57
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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Not only will the rent increase, but also your electricity bill, if you use the dishwasher!
lolplumtree. A dishwasher is much more efficient in water use than filling up a sink and doing it manually http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...s-cheaper.html

"Research carried out by Christian Paul Richter between 2007 and 2008 on two hundred households in Germany, Italy, Sweden and Britain, found that the households which had a dishwasher used on average 50pc less water and 28pc less energy than the households that didn't own a dishwasher."

And dishwashers are more efficient now than they were then.
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Old 14.11.2015, 11:59
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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It's a swap between a decrease in hot water usage (which is usually paid communally as it's not metered) and electricity usage (which is usually paid individually as it's metered).

Googling, a modern dishwasher run daily will cost about 50Fr in electricity costs per year.
Dishwashers though need liquid, tablets etc. - I wouldn't want a dishwasher, for one I'd miss squeezing my bottle of Fairy (which incidentally is much cheaper than the products needed for a dishwasher)!
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lolplumtree. A dishwasher is much more efficient in water use than filling up a sink and doing it manually http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...s-cheaper.html
"Research carried out by Christian Paul Richter between 2007 and 2008 on two hundred households in Germany, Italy, Sweden and Britain, found that the households which had a dishwasher used on average 50pc less water and 28pc less energy than the households that didn't own a dishwasher."
And dishwashers are more efficient now than they were then.
That may be so, but water isn't metered so you don't have to pay any extra for it, no matter how much you use.
I suppose dishwashers might be worth it for couples with 2 or more children, as obviously that's a lot of washing up... but for childless couples and singles, I don't really see the point.
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:06
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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Dishwashers though need liquid, tablets etc. - I wouldn't want a dishwasher, for one I'd miss squeezing my bottle of Fairy (which incidentally is much cheaper than the products needed for a dishwasher)!That may be so, but water isn't metered so you don't have to pay any extra for it, no matter how much you use.
I suppose dishwashers might be worth it for couples with 2 or more children, as obviously that's a lot of washing up... but for childless couples and singles, I don't really see the point.
That makes no logical sense. If a dishwasher is more economical than hand washing then they are worth it for single people too. A dishwasher can be stacked until full and then used, which obviously cuts down on water used vs doing it manually each time.

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Dishwashers though need liquid, tablets etc. - I wouldn't want a dishwasher, for one I'd miss squeezing my bottle of Fairy (which incidentally is much cheaper than the products needed for a dishwasher)!
Again, rubbish. Denner "all-in-one" dishwasher tablets are less than 7chf for 70 tablets, that would be over 2 months of use if used daily. In realistic terms, it is 4+ months of use.
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:08
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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It's a swap between a decrease in hot water usage (which is usually paid communally as it's not metered) and electricity usage (which is usually paid individually as it's metered).

Googling, a modern dishwasher run daily will cost about 50Fr in electricity costs per year.
Most dishwashers here are cold fill only, but the amount of water they heat is anyway small so electricity costs are not a significant factor.
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:10
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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That makes no logical sense. If a dishwasher is more economical than hand washing then they are worth it for single people too. A dishwasher can be stacked until full and then used, which obviously cuts down on water used vs doing it manually each time.
I'd rather clean the plates immediately for hygiene reasons than stack them until a machine is full of dirty, smelly pots and dishes, that won't even come clean anymore.

As mentioned, you have to factor in cost as well. Electricity is metered. Water isn't. Washing up by hand is more economical. I'm not saying it is more ecological. That is a different matter.

Also it hardly saves any time, since you still have to spend time stacking and unstacking the machine!
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Denner "all-in-one" dishwasher tablets are less than 7chf for 70 tablets, that would be over 2 months of use if used daily. In realistic terms, it is 4+ months of use.
Yes, but how efficient are they?!
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:17
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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Most dishwashers here are cold fill only, but the amount of water they heat is anyway small so electricity costs are not a significant factor.
All dishwashers I've ever seen are cold fill only, including all those in the UK. The 50Fr/year cost includes heating the water.
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:20
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

This info on how dishwashers are cheaper in the long run is making my lazy side feel even better about the dishwasher

Thanks for the link to https://www.mieterverband.ch/, RichDog. THat's exactly what I needed.
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:22
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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I'd rather clean the plates immediately for hygiene reasons than stack them until a machine is full of dirty, smelly pots and dishes, that won't even come clean anymore.

As mentioned, you have to factor in cost as well. Electricity is metered. Water isn't. Washing up by hand is more economical. I'm not saying it is more ecological. That is a different matter.

Also it hardly saves any time, since you still have to spend time stacking and unstacking the machine!Yes, but how efficient are they?!
Ah the television critic who hasn't watched for 15 years. I suppose you enjoy drawing your water from the well too??
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:26
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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television critic who hasn't watched for 15 years. I suppose you enjoy drawing your water from the well too?
No, we have running water on tap here.

As for the television, you can catch most of what you want online nowadays or on DVD, why bother paying out monthly for a TV package which consists of 99% of what you absolutely don't want to see and includes a huge amount of invasive advertising?! To me that's simply bonkers!
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:28
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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Ah the television critic who hasn't watched for 15 years. I suppose you enjoy drawing your water from the well too??
I honestly can't tell if plumtree is magnificently trolling us all, or is just actually so monumentally thick-headed. Sadly I suspect the latter, and thus I'll waste no more valuable finger energy responding to her.
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:30
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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I honestly can't tell if plumtree is magnificently trolling us all, or is just actually so monumentally thick-headed. Sadly I suspect the latter, and thus I'll waste no more valuable finger energy responding to her.
These are simply ongoing, online discussions/threads, none of which have anything to do with 'trolling' as you say, whatever that is supposed to mean!
As for anyone being 'thick-headed': please don't be rude, it's not nice and it's totally unnecessary.
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Old 14.11.2015, 12:51
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

Our flat had a brand new dishwasher when we moved in. We tried to use it several times, bought the different soaps and salts and all that jazz, but things still came out with a strange filmy feeling and smell.

Besides that, if we didn't pre-rinse everything before hand, the dishwasher wouldn't begin to get things clean anyway.

We now wash with hot water used sparingly by hand, and 'eco friendly' soap.

Fill dirtiest pot with soap and water. Use it as a basin to wash everything else, then rinse everything off in quick succession.

Dishwasher now used as storage space for tupperware and other odd things.
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Old 14.11.2015, 13:16
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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. Electricity is metered. Water isn't.
Are you sure about that? Both water and electricity are metered here.
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Old 14.11.2015, 13:20
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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Are you sure about that? Both water and electricity are metered here.
Yes. Electricity is obviously metered and it's billed privately/individually, to the occupier, probably in the same way as yours is.

Hot and cold water though are definitely not metered here and both are included in the 'Nebenkosten' that owner-occupiers or tenants pay monthly/annually.
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Old 14.11.2015, 14:53
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Re: Rent increase with dishwasher installation

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As for anyone being 'thick-headed':it's true I am, it's not nice and it's totally unnecessary, but I just can't help myself.
FTFY plumtroll
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