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Old 07.12.2015, 09:10
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Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

We are looking at a potential refurb which requires no major or load bearing structural changes.

It would involve approx: new flooring and stair surfaces, new kitchen and tiling, making an opening in one non load bearing wall, changing a couple of archway openings into rectangular openings, possibly some carpeting, and replacing two attic windows, and painting the whole interior including attic.

We are wondering if using a bauleiter to coordinate some of this is a good idea, or that is just more appropriate for more major changes. Did some of you use one, how was it, what were the costs etc?

Many thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 07.12.2015, 09:12
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

I'd have to check but I think it is about 15% - the coordinate all trades and make sure everything is done in sequence.

Your renovations are sounding more an more expensive each time!
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Old 07.12.2015, 09:34
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

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I'd have to check but I think it is about 15% - the coordinate all trades and make sure everything is done in sequence.

Your renovations are sounding more an more expensive each time!
15% is about the going rate. If you need any permits, these costs are generally not included.

The advantage in using a firm to manage the process is that they generally have all the contacts, they get discounts on materials and they coordinate the process.

If you are doing extensive renovations you could also contact a local architect.

We have renovated properties, dealt directly with tradespeople and have experience obtaining permits. It is a lot of work and if I had to do this again I would hire a company. Having the language skills, time and patience to manage renovations and some experience still does not make one an expert.
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Old 07.12.2015, 09:39
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

Another piece of advice - from having moved into a place and wanted to do x, y, z is:

Move in - get to know the house, how you live it, what works, what doesn't, what really really has to change, and what you can wait to do.

What jobs can be sequences, what jobs can't.
What jobs efficiently lower tax, what ones won't.
What jobs can you do yourself, what jobs can't.

Take your time over the process - you have plenty of time to tweak the design as you go.

(And be aware - a 50k project rapidly becomes a 100k project after fees. And a 100k becomes 200k. So speak to your bank before buying about how the renovations will be financed.)
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Old 07.12.2015, 11:11
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

Well, I would like the kitchens and floors and the one room opening to be done as a minimum before I move in, and that would be the big bulk of what we are doing anyhow.

Can't imagine moving in without those things done, and then the fuss and disruption to living to do them once we are in would be a PITA too.

You are right though that I am considering scaling back on the other parts of the refurb until further down the line.
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Old 07.12.2015, 12:14
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

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We are looking at a potential refurb which requires no major or load bearing structural changes. . . .
We used Fust Baumanagement (http://www.fust.ch/de/eigenheim-umba...--1--1061.html) for a recent kitchen renovation and are very pleased with the results. They supplied a "Bauleiter" which added about 10% to the total project. The final cost was only marginally over the offer price, partly as a result of a change we asked for. The main deadline was also met.
With Fust, you can specify which tradesmen they use, if that is useful to you.
If timescales are critical to you, ensure that these are expressly listed in contract, and not simply accept a reference to a Building Program which will be supplied later.
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Old 07.12.2015, 16:45
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

An architect will charge you a percentage on top (15-30%) and won't give you final costs but with a +- 20% variation. We went with a Bauleiter from a bathroom shop who charged us 7k (approx 6%) and gave us final prices with no variations. He made his margin up on the fittings but also gave us good discounts, like 50% off a display Riffra bathroom cabinet and 5-10% off everything else.

We did:
1. New downstairs WC (drilling through floor into basement and new pipes)
2. Knock through a non-load bearing wall
3. New bathroom with lots of changes and repositioning of all pipes and a walk-in shower
4. Painting, wallpapering, skirting and flooring

They messed things up, went through walls when they were fitting pipes and caused a major leak. We were glad it was all under one project that had to be completed as one project.

If the kitchen is the major project, do that as one project with one company. The windows and attic I would make a second project with a schreiner.
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Old 07.12.2015, 21:25
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

Last renovation we used a bauleiter or direction de traveaux as we call them here. They came up with solutions that we did not think of and they were very efficient getting the trades in at the right time.

That said I must say that we did check every day what was done and several times had to correct the workers. The bauleiter was with us 3 times a week so not every day. Mistakes happen but often the cost of correcting these were ours especially if the mistakes are between trades. Like the door fitter crashes the door in to the ceiling and had to be redone.

I would recommend a bauleiter that is part of an architects business. You will always have surprises and at that moment you need a clever guy to guide you. Building is a real profession.
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Old 08.12.2015, 08:09
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

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Another piece of advice - from having moved into a place and wanted to do x, y, z is:

Move in - get to know the house, how you live it, what works, what doesn't, what really really has to change, and what you can wait to do.
I agree with this because not everything which is old is broken. Aesthetically it may be unattractive, but it functions. Older items which were built to a high standard can last years.

Since the cost of most of the changes the OP is referring to can be deducted from taxes, it also makes sense to spread this work over time.

That being said, living in a house while renovating can be less than ideal. It very much depends on the kind of work you are doing, the access, and the tradesperson.

Buy your own "floorliner" and be prepared to protect finished areas and anything which might get damaged. You may need cardboard as well. Be careful to use tape which does not mark. Many tradespeople take a minimalist attitude to this which I find very annoying. If it is part of the quote it is generally very expensive.

Also providing tradespeople with refreshments, a place to take a break (and where they can smoke if they want to) and access to a toilet is highly appreciated.
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Old 08.12.2015, 08:19
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

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That being said, living in a house while renovating can be less than ideal. It very much depends on the kind of work you are doing, the access, and the tradesperson.
For us it is a double edged sword. We are doing much of the ourselves - and this year has seen carry out a huge amount of work (which is ongoing) - this means we not only have to live with the mess but we have to make the time to carry out the work - although based on our estimates we'll have saved well over 20k doing so this year.

In terms of the mess this can be anything from tools constantly being "out", to dust, to mud and to the garden constantly filled with building materials.

The flipside of this is that you get to appreciate each piece of work, not only for the result but also for the pride in doing a (good) job yourself. Our fence, for example, garnered much praise from the locals - including the Mayor

My current job is refurbishing the original parquet flooring (1959) which has been buried under carpet since 1989 - this requires the carpet to be lifted, which leaves behind the foam backing. This foam is then removed with a multi-tool scraper (if you need one buy FEIN). It then needs to be sanded back to remove the remaining glue, foam and original varnish - 40 grit on a sanding head on an angle grinder . Then 2 more sandings at 80 and then 120. Before varnishing with a water based lacquer, a light sand, second coat, a wire wool and then a top coat.

All the foam is lifted and I am ready to continue the first sand, and based on the sample section already completed this will involve much dust production!!!
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Old 08.12.2015, 12:59
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

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For us it is a double edged sword. We are doing much of the ourselves - and this year has seen carry out a huge amount of work (which is ongoing) - this means we not only have to live with the mess but we have to make the time to carry out the work - although based on our estimates we'll have saved well over 20k doing so this year.

In terms of the mess this can be anything from tools constantly being "out", to dust, to mud and to the garden constantly filled with building materials.

The flipside of this is that you get to appreciate each piece of work, not only for the result but also for the pride in doing a (good) job yourself. Our fence, for example, garnered much praise from the locals - including the Mayor

My current job is refurbishing the original parquet flooring (1959) which has been buried under carpet since 1989 - this requires the carpet to be lifted, which leaves behind the foam backing. This foam is then removed with a multi-tool scraper (if you need one buy FEIN). It then needs to be sanded back to remove the remaining glue, foam and original varnish - 40 grit on a sanding head on an angle grinder . Then 2 more sandings at 80 and then 120. Before varnishing with a water based lacquer, a light sand, second coat, a wire wool and then a top coat.

All the foam is lifted and I am ready to continue the first sand, and based on the sample section already completed this will involve much dust production!!!

We did a lot of the work ourselves as well. I hired a stripper for my husband's birthday....a carpet stripper. (I do not think he was amused). I also bought a very long handled special scraper for the areas the machine cannot reach.


You can save bundles doing the prep work even if you leave the installation to the experts.
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Old 09.12.2015, 11:58
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

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You can save bundles doing the prep work even if you leave the installation to the experts.
Thanks Mrs Doolittle for all the hints, most insightful.

What though, do you mean by prep work in your case?
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Old 09.12.2015, 19:31
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

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Thanks Mrs Doolittle for all the hints, most insightful.

What though, do you mean by prep work in your case?
Ripping out old stuff. In our case, removing old carpets and wallpaper.
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Old 18.12.2015, 08:59
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Re: Anyone used a bauleiter / building manager for refurb?

Does anyone have a bauleiter recommendation in the Zürich area?
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