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Old 14.06.2016, 17:54
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Looking for help in subletting

The situation is like this:

I was looking for somewhere to stay, and found a room subleted by the current tenant. I signed the subletting contract, then the current tenant refused to give me the key unless I transfer a large amount of deposit to his personal bank account, which I think is illegal here. He took the key away and the landlord doesn't have any backups. According to the landlord, the current tenant also haven't paid the rent for this month, also he's travelling outside Switzerland and it's largely possible that he won't return to Switzerland again. Even if I pay the deposit and monthly rent to him, I don't think he'll ever give the money back to me or the landlord.

Currently I can't find another accommodation because of some personal issues. What should I or the landlord do in this situation?
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Old 14.06.2016, 18:15
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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The situation is like this:

I was looking for somewhere to stay, and found a room subleted by the current tenant. I signed the subletting contract, then the current tenant refused to give me the key unless I transfer a large amount of deposit to his personal bank account, which I think is illegal here. He took the key away and the landlord doesn't have any backups. According to the landlord, the current tenant also haven't paid the rent for this month, also he's travelling outside Switzerland and it's largely possible that he won't return to Switzerland again. Even if I pay the deposit and monthly rent to him, I don't think he'll ever give the money back to me or the landlord.

Currently I can't find another accommodation because of some personal issues. What should I or the landlord do in this situation?

On the off chance that you aren't a troll....


Did the contract you signed mention a deposit? What about the current month's rent?
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Old 14.06.2016, 18:18
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

Haha, I'm sure I'm not a troll. It's just I have an emergency and have to leave Switzerland for a couple of days, during which my current lease will end. So I have to sign the contract before I leave.
Yes, the contract mentioned about deposit and rent. I already signed it, but the current tenant refuses to sign because he wants me to transfer the deposit first.
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Old 14.06.2016, 18:26
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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Haha, I'm sure I'm not a troll. It's just I have an emergency and have to leave Switzerland for a couple of days, during which my current lease will end. So I have to sign the contract before I leave.
Yes, the contract mentioned about deposit and rent. I already signed it, but the current tenant refuses to sign because he wants me to transfer the deposit first.
Well, if you are taking over his lease then he would probably be wanting his deposit back.


What _exactly_ does the contract say about the deposit and rent?
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Old 14.06.2016, 18:28
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Well, if you are taking over his lease then he would probably be wanting his deposit back.


What _exactly_ does the contract say about the deposit and rent?
The exact words are: "Deposit: xxxx CHF, rent: xxx CHF/month"

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Well, if you are taking over his lease then he would probably be wanting his deposit back.


What _exactly_ does the contract say about the deposit and rent?
nothing else, just what I posted above

Last edited by 3Wishes; 14.06.2016 at 22:34. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 14.06.2016, 18:33
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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The exact words are: "Deposit: xxxx CHF, rent: xxx CHF/month"


So, you contact the landlord and the current renter, and organise it so that you deposit your xxxx, and the landlord releases the current renter's. If you want to do it by the book, you ask the landlord to go and inspect the place to see if the full xxxx should be returned to the current renter.


Have you already been living there? If not, then the current months rent is a thing between the landlord and the current renter. If yes, then you will have to sort that out with the current renter.
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Old 14.06.2016, 18:57
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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The situation is like this:

I was looking for somewhere to stay, and found a room subleted by the current tenant. I signed the subletting contract, then the current tenant refused to give me the key unless I transfer a large amount of deposit to his personal bank account, which I think is illegal here. He took the key away and the landlord doesn't have any backups. According to the landlord, the current tenant also haven't paid the rent for this month, also he's travelling outside Switzerland and it's largely possible that he won't return to Switzerland again. Even if I pay the deposit and monthly rent to him, I don't think he'll ever give the money back to me or the landlord.

Currently I can't find another accommodation because of some personal issues. What should I or the landlord do in this situation?
This whole story is weird ..... how many subletters to subletters to subletters does this landlord allow?! The one who sublets to you left Switzerland and will probably not come back?! So why is the contract not between you and the landlord?

One never pays deposit before a contract is signed (and as you already mentioned depsits are not payed to private accounts but to a "Sperrkonto"). So don't even think about doing that. Invest that money in a hotel room and get out of this mess. You'll have more "personal issues" if you don't.
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Old 14.06.2016, 19:00
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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I was looking for somewhere to stay, and found a room subleted by the current tenant. I signed the subletting contract, then the current tenant refused to give me the key unless I transfer a large amount of deposit to his personal bank account, which I think is illegal here.

Currently I can't find another accommodation because of some personal issues. What should I or the landlord do in this situation?
Please tell me you are not so desperate that you would sign this in such circumstances?
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Old 14.06.2016, 19:02
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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So, you contact the landlord and the current renter, and organise it so that you deposit your xxxx, and the landlord releases the current renter's. If you want to do it by the book, you ask the landlord to go and inspect the place to see if the full xxxx should be returned to the current renter.


Have you already been living there? If not, then the current months rent is a thing between the landlord and the current renter. If yes, then you will have to sort that out with the current renter.
The thing is, I don't think deposit is the only thing the current tenant wants. He destroyed a couple of furnitures in the room, so theoretically he cannot get the full amount of deposit back. Also, out of some unknown weird reason, he insisted that he wants access to the room.

Is there any approach to deal with this? The landlord has already sent him the contract termination notice, but accotding to swiss law it seems the contract can only be ended after 3 months.
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Old 14.06.2016, 19:05
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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The thing is, I don't think deposit is the only thing the current tenant wants. He destroyed a couple of furnitures in the room, so theoretically he cannot get the full amount of deposit back. Also, out of some unknown weird reason, he insisted that he wants access to the room.

Is there any approach to deal with this? The landlord has already sent him the contract termination notice, but accotding to swiss law it seems the contract can only be ended after 3 months.


run.
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Old 14.06.2016, 19:06
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Please tell me you are not so desperate that you would sign this in such circumstances?
I was desperate, I admit. When I signed it I didn't know about this mess, it's only when I talked with the landlord himself I got to know this story. The contract isn't valid yet, because the current tenant haven't sign. But my time here is so limited that I cannot find something else.

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This whole story is weird ..... how many subletters to subletters to subletters does this landlord allow?! The one who sublets to you left Switzerland and will probably not come back?! So why is the contract not between you and the landlord?

One never pays deposit before a contract is signed (and as you already mentioned depsits are not payed to private accounts but to a "Sperrkonto"). So don't even think about doing that. Invest that money in a hotel room and get out of this mess. You'll have more "personal issues" if you don't.
Thank you for your advice. Now I think the best solution is what you said.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 14.06.2016 at 22:37. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 14.06.2016, 19:07
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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Is there any approach to deal with this?
Run. Just run.

And if you think you need _that_ flat: Run faster.
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Old 14.06.2016, 19:07
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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run.
Exactly. I'll think for another day and if nothing happens, this is what I'm gonna do
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Old 14.06.2016, 19:08
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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I was desperate, I admit. When I signed it I didn't know about this mess, it's only when I talked with the landlord himself I got to know this story. The contract isn't valid yet, because the current tenant haven't sign. But my time here is so limited that I cannot find something else.
Then it will be a hard lesson learnt. Get out of it now and seek alternative accommodation.
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Old 14.06.2016, 19:17
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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Exactly. I'll think for another day and if nothing happens, this is what I'm gonna do


Have a word with the landlord, he may have something else.
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Old 14.06.2016, 19:27
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

Well, how about this? You sign a contract with the landlord to take over the whole place in 3 months' time when the current lease ends. Meanwhile landlord chases current tenant for rent and also telling him if his stuff isn't cleared by whatever the termination date is he'll have all it removed and take the costs out of his deposit money. Come the start of your lease, landlord has locks changed at previous tenant's expense (assuming he hasn't returned and cleared his stuff out), you move in and both you and the landlord are happy people. Would that work?
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Old 14.06.2016, 20:14
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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Well, how about this? You sign a contract with the landlord to take over the whole place in 3 months' time when the current lease ends. Meanwhile landlord chases current tenant for rent and also telling him if his stuff isn't cleared by whatever the termination date is he'll have all it removed and take the costs out of his deposit money. Come the start of your lease, landlord has locks changed at previous tenant's expense (assuming he hasn't returned and cleared his stuff out), you move in and both you and the landlord are happy people. Would that work?
Nope. Doesn't work that way in Switzerland. Not easy to get rid of tenants, no matter how bad they behave.

Look appcell, many people told you to run - you need an other day to think about it?! You asked for advice, you got good one. But ofcourse it's up to you.
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Old 14.06.2016, 20:19
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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Nope. Doesn't work that way in Switzerland. Not easy to get rid of tenants, no matter how bad they behave.

Look appcell, many people told you to run - you need an other day to think about it?! You asked for advice, you got good one. But ofcourse it's up to you.
Why not? The landlord has already given the current tenant notice to leave. If the landlord has a new tenant lined up and the current one hasn't moved out as required surely the landlord has a duty to the new tenant to make sure he can use what he's paying for?
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Old 14.06.2016, 20:28
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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Why not? The landlord has already given the current tenant notice to leave. If the landlord has a new tenant lined up and the current one hasn't moved out as required surely the landlord has a duty to the new tenant to make sure he can use what he's paying for?
There are very strict laws of tenancy here, very difficult to get rid of tenants - even if you declare "personal requirements". That's just how it is, I didn't invent it ..... although I might have voted about it once
These laws are in general very good but ofcourse the type discussed here profit from it too.
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Old 15.06.2016, 08:28
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Re: Looking for help in subletting

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Why not? The landlord has already given the current tenant notice to leave. If the landlord has a new tenant lined up and the current one hasn't moved out as required surely the landlord has a duty to the new tenant to make sure he can use what he's paying for?
The most important "why not" are:
- the landlord has a running contract which includes exclusive access to and use of the apartment. If he gives OP the keys (he can have some made) he's in breach of that contract, makes himself liable. Doesn't matter if rent is late or not
- if OP enters the apartment without a valid sublease he's on the level of a burglar, legally he's breaking into the apartment
- if OP enters the apartment, renter is virtually guaranteed to claim that OP caused the damage to the furniture
- if OP enters indeed the sublease, he'll probably be in heap of trouble no later than when he stops his contract as, again, OP will try to blame him for the damages

Run. Run fast and far.

appcell, the signed sublease contract constitutes a binding offer by you. That offer is valid for some time, probably until after the rent should have started. You need to cancel that offer day before yesterday, typically done by sending a registered letter to the renter saying you withdraw your offer to sublet effective immediately. This is possible only as long as the contract hasnt' been signed by the renter. Since the notice for your registered mail may warn him, the best thing would be to hand him that letter in person with at least one witness present in case he refuses to acknowledge receipt in writing.
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