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Old 29.06.2016, 11:36
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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You seem to be going off at a tangent there. The issue is not making money out of the situation. Ensuring that all individuals are aware of the rules may help though.
Of course it's not about making money, but why all the effort? I wouldn't even bother to go collecting cigarette butts and issuing some fine. Way too much work for absolutely nothing. If anything, the workers will be po'ed and not be impressed the slightest, especially as they are probably aware just as much that those fines are worthless.


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You're probably right, demanding a fine is unlikely to wash, seeing as it isn't written into any contract. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy way to monitor this; the site manager is not there everyday as he is also responsible for other projects throughout the the canton. We'll meet with him today and reiterate our concerns and insist it is written into the weekly report that is sent to all the contractors. Apart from the actual smoking, they're also stubbing out their butts on our freshly-laid tiles; even if you do smoke in your own house, you wouldn't stub it out on the floor would you?
No of course I wouldn't. I'm not saying that it's ok in any way and I wouldn't accept it either. But your question was how far you would get if you issued fines and I'm saying: not very far

The above sounds good, talk to the manager again, also talk to the workers again, and as said, if push comes to shove, reach out to the company itself. Read the contract to back yourself up, pretty sure it'll say something about no smoking. And then it's up to the company to discipline the workers through the site manager, or directly. It'll all be fine, I'm sure, in 95%, the "reasonable approach" leads to the biggest success And if it indeed doesn't help, it's probably some form of breach of contract, which would take it to a different level anyway.
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Old 29.06.2016, 11:48
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

Put a sign on the front door and every floor. Polite but firm.
But as someone else wrote you won`t smell anything but paint when you move in.
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  #23  
Old 07.09.2016, 09:46
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

Here we go again, we are a week away from handover, my wife pops around to the site and sees one of the plumbing contractors in our basement, fag hanging out the side of his mouth. This is the same guy she had a go at a couple of months ago too. Well, she absolutely laid into him and he ran off into the garage saying "sorry, sorry". She immediately contacted the site manager and he phoned her back straight away. He said he's pissed off with this particular firm for other reasons and he won't hesitate in issuing a fine.
We both went round yesterday evening and found SIX fag-ends and an empty packet on our basement floor . We took pics and also sent them to him. The only saving grace is that this room we will floor ourselves, so it is bare concrete at the moment.
It's been written into the weekly report that smoking is not permitted for several months now and all the contractors are aware of it.
I'm not looking for solutions from you guys, I just wanted to rant.
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  #24  
Old 07.09.2016, 10:03
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

Not sure if it's possible but could you inform the site manager that you'll withhold a % of the final payment (if it hasn't yet been paid) if he doesn't resolve the issue once and for all?

You have clear ongoing evidence that the rule has been repeatedly flouted and, from what you say, it is written into the contract that it's no smoking on site. You've also repeatedly taken it up with the building company and they have failed to prevent it. I would say that his reasons of him not being on site to catch them red handed is a bit of a flimsy excuse.

Usually if you start talking in monetary terms it focuses peoples minds.
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Old 07.09.2016, 10:20
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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Not sure if it's possible but could you inform the site manager that you'll withhold a % of the final payment (if it hasn't yet been paid) if he doesn't resolve the issue once and for all?

You have clear ongoing evidence that the rule has been repeatedly flouted and, from what you say, it is written into the contract that it's no smoking on site. You've also repeatedly taken it up with the building company and they have failed to prevent it. I would say that his reasons of him not being on site to catch them red handed is a bit of a flimsy excuse.

Usually if you start talking in monetary terms it focuses peoples minds.
The question is, could the flat be sold for more than the price being paid & who actually owns the building at this point in time? If the price has increased I could see the contractor offering the deposit back if the OP is not happy, it may or may not be the solution he is looking for, but a court in CH who loves to compromise might think it very reasonable solution.
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Old 07.09.2016, 10:39
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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but a court in CH who loves to compromise might think it very reasonable solution.
You'd think a reasonable solution would be for the contractors to just stop smoking in the building.

After all, smokers are reasonable people - it's the non-smokers in Switzerland who are at fault (as I keep getting told).
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Old 07.09.2016, 10:48
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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You'd think a reasonable solution would be for the contractors to just stop smoking in the building.

After all, smokers are reasonable people - it's the non-smokers in Switzerland who are at fault (as I keep getting told).
The Judge probably smokes 60 a day so can't understand what the pesky auslanders are complaining about.
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Old 07.09.2016, 10:51
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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...
I'm not looking for solutions from you guys, I just wanted to rant.
Even so. Smoke detector - switches on movement detectors linked to automatic gun (like the ones in Aliens).

A small pile of dead contractors should encourage the others to smoke outside.
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Old 07.09.2016, 10:51
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

Just be careful you don't push too far and provoke an act of revenge:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-pay-them.html

Last edited by me.anon; 08.09.2016 at 11:00. Reason: typo
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Old 07.09.2016, 10:59
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

good grief, look at the person you've become.

anyway, the Polish workers I had drew a naked woman with spread legs anatomically correct on my wall.

just relax and stop doing you for a while, you'll be happier.
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  #31  
Old 07.09.2016, 11:00
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

What does it say in the contract about the cleaning before the handover?


Usually in a new build there is a thorough cleaning done. But it is to deal with dust and dirt from a building site. Smoke and cigarette butts is another matter.


So if you start to demand a more intensive cleaning at the builder's costs I think this is the best way to move forward.


I have never had anyone working in our house smoke. When the new garage door was installed, one of the installers lit a cigarette and I sent him outside. He argued the garage was outside. Since the garage is under the house and there is a door leading into the house, I told him that was hardly outside. He complied with my request.


You should not have this kind of aggravation with a new building. Workers get breaks in Switzerland and a lunch break. On those breaks they can smoke. If they take other breaks to smoke outside who will know? We had one person working in our house who took a puff of his cigarette each time he went out to his van to get more materials.
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Old 07.09.2016, 11:07
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

We had some contractors in recently to fix the roof.

After they had gone we had cigarette butts in the flower beds and cigarette butts in the fireplace in the sitting room - they had been thrown down the chimney!
There were also empty beer cans on the terrace.

If they were the professionals, I'm glad we didn't get amateurs in.
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Old 07.09.2016, 11:08
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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good grief, look at the person you've become.

anyway, the Polish workers I had drew a naked woman with spread legs anatomically correct on my wall.

just relax and stop doing you for a while, you'll be happier.
Huh, have you been drinking?
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Old 07.09.2016, 11:17
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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The contractors shouldn't be smoking in the house especially after they have been told not to - but they're not always the smartest people on the planet and may well ignore the request.
...
(My guess is that the contractors are foreigners - and smoking Swiss contractors always put their butts in the bin).


I was once the first renter of a new flat in Zurich. From the start one toilet did not work well as the water did not flush properly. After two weeks of discussions with the landlord ("did you put hair in the drain?" "It's the toilet, not the sink, how much hair would it take to jam it?"...) did some crew show up with a camera on some long cable to find out what the problem is... long story short: They found an empty beer bottle jammed into the pipe which one of the builders must have thrown in there before installing the toilet... since then do I not expect much from contractors... at least not basic logic.
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Old 07.09.2016, 11:26
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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What does it say in the contract about the cleaning before the handover?


Usually in a new build there is a thorough cleaning done. But it is to deal with dust and dirt from a building site. Smoke and cigarette butts is another matter.


So if you start to demand a more intensive cleaning at the builder's costs I think this is the best way to move forward.


I have never had anyone working in our house smoke. When the new garage door was installed, one of the installers lit a cigarette and I sent him outside. He argued the garage was outside. Since the garage is under the house and there is a door leading into the house, I told him that was hardly outside. He complied with my request.


You should not have this kind of aggravation with a new building. Workers get breaks in Switzerland and a lunch break. On those breaks they can smoke. If they take other breaks to smoke outside who will know? We had one person working in our house who took a puff of his cigarette each time he went out to his van to get more materials.
Yes, there will be a full clean and subsequent handover the day before the official handover. However, the room where we found all the butts will need to be cleaned and vacuumed prior to this so we can lay the floor. We might end up doing this clean ourselves.
What galls me is the utter disrespect people have for another's property; they wouldn't stub out cigarettes or leave litter on their own floor, so what makes them think they can do that to someone else's?
The only recompense I can imagine is to ask that the fines imposed on the contractor will be passed on to us as a reduction in our final payment as a gesture of goodwill. One could even argue that since we found 6 butts, that is equivalent to (at least) 6 instances of smoking, or 900.-. It would hopefully act as an incentive for the building company to monitor their contractors more efficiently.
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Old 07.09.2016, 11:41
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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They found an empty beer bottle jammed into the pipe
Damn.
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Old 07.09.2016, 11:50
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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Just be careful you don't push to far and provoke an act of revenge:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-pay-them.html
You know, I even said that to the wife; what if they decide to take revenge by not fixing our taps properly?
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Old 07.09.2016, 12:31
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

I would have been spitting feathers if any of the contractors had done this during our build especially at this late stage where the walls etc. could absorb the smells and have them lingering around for ages.
Fortunately we never found any evidence of smoking at all inside although there were always quite a few butts stubbed out on the road just outside.

Hopefully you'll get some recompense for their blatant disregard of the rules.
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  #39  
Old 07.09.2016, 13:13
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

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just relax and stop doing you for a while, you'll be happier.
Must say, I agree with Cath on this. Play the long game...

It's a lot of undue stress that is being generated to be honest. Our apartment was a refurbishment of an old house. I viewed the place when it was at the decorating stage and the doors were off being spray painted. There were a few cigarette buts on the tiled floors, and there was an ashtray on the balcony.

6 mths after we moved in, I'm still airing the bathroom to try and get rid of the paint smell from a large fitted cupboard in the room. Everytime we have a shower, the paint smell comes back.

Can I take it that you will need to have the house aired and cleaned before moving in, as a matter of course? Won't that deal with any issues you currently feel are important? And please consider the goodwill aspect in case you need to do a snagging report further down the line.

Come Christmas, I don't believe you'll be curled up on the sofa sniffing the air for a cigarette that someone smoked 4mths ago. To be very coarse, you're more likely to be lighting scented candles to cover the smell of you farting like a trooper after the Brussels sprouts at Christmas dinner.
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Old 07.09.2016, 13:33
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Re: Contractors smoking in new build

Paddy,

Here is my view:

You are right, it is your house, and it is frustrating as hell. The problem is that from a practical standpoint even if the contractor knocks 2K off your bill, it won't make it any less frustrating.

The contractor may find it frustrating as hell too. But if he spits the dummy and fires whichever idiot is just completely incapable of adjusting his behaviour, he will have a problem finding a replacement soon enough to not risk the handover date.

One of the problems here is that the construction industry is not really a repeat customer domain.

As a smoker, I apologise. I wouldn't dream of smoking in your house or car, and would ask first even if I was standing in the far corner of the garden, and respect your wishes. I am apparently in the minority.

Yes, the smell of paint, and the formaldehyde gassing out of the MDF cabinets will be what you smell when you first move in, but that isn't what this is about.

Try not to let it eat at you, and keep expressing your concern to the builder.
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