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Old 17.07.2016, 12:07
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additional costs after moving out

We moved out from our old place, where we had a washer-dryer combo in the apartment. The Agency insists that there is a small service (120CHF) needed for the machines on *our costs*, even if they were cleaned, are in perfect working order and the devices are still under manufacturer's guarantee.

Also they told me I need to pay the replacement of the active carbon filter in the vapor extractor (60CHF). These are not massive costs, but I consider these a cost for the owners.

Am I (not) right?
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Old 17.07.2016, 12:14
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Re: additional costs after moving out

No, in short, unless the appliance is more than 10 years old.

Its perfectly normal for you to pay to have things like, steamers, washing machines, tumble dryers etc serviced and the certificate presented at handover.

It's nothing to do with cleanliness and more for calc' build up, and to make sure the machine is in good working order. Failing to treat washing machines etc to reduce calc' build up is your responsibility, and damage due to calc is not normally covered by warranty. If you check your dossier there will probably be 1 when you moved in, unless the appliance was new. If you have a fireplace you will need to have the chimney cleaned to.
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Last edited by Papa Goose; 17.07.2016 at 19:04.
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Old 17.07.2016, 19:52
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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No, in short, unless the appliance is more than 10 years old.

Its perfectly normal for you to pay to have things like, steamers, washing machines, tumble dryers etc serviced and the certificate presented at handover.

It's nothing to do with cleanliness and more for calc' build up, and to make sure the machine is in good working order. Failing to treat washing machines etc to reduce calc' build up is your responsibility, and damage due to calc is not normally covered by warranty. If you check your dossier there will probably be 1 when you moved in, unless the appliance was new. If you have a fireplace you will need to have the chimney cleaned to.
it was new when we moved in as first tenants.
the agency tells me that this is standard procedure if changing tenants.
now I only don't want to accept this as there was nothing like this in our contract when moved in.
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Old 17.07.2016, 19:58
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Re: additional costs after moving out

I'd be surprised if its not as it's pretty std. Really not worth getting pissy over, especially if you haven't had your deposit back yet.
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Old 17.07.2016, 21:11
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Re: additional costs after moving out

Yes, deposit is a big problem for all people renting the flat when they want to move... They can pick if they want thinking that you wouldn't go to the court for this amount . Officially all these small issues must be written in contract, but in real life they can show some "specialised document in regard of the machine" or nothing at all.
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Old 17.07.2016, 23:42
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Re: additional costs after moving out

sooo I checked my contract. Kleine Unterhalt is part of the contract (but the text does not mention service cleaning of the Washer-Dryer?), but apart from that no word on the washing machine. In the move out chapter it is only requested that the flat is cleaned in a professional manner (which was done and accepted).
I guess I'll have to call my legal insurance or the Mieterverband tomorrow.
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Old 18.07.2016, 09:09
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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No, in short, unless the appliance is more than 10 years old.

Its perfectly normal for you to pay to have things like, steamers, washing machines, tumble dryers etc serviced and the certificate presented at handover.

It's nothing to do with cleanliness and more for calc' build up, and to make sure the machine is in good working order. Failing to treat washing machines etc to reduce calc' build up is your responsibility, and damage due to calc is not normally covered by warranty. If you check your dossier there will probably be 1 when you moved in, unless the appliance was new. If you have a fireplace you will need to have the chimney cleaned to.

We are moving out in October and need to provide the above mentioned certificates - do you know where we get these done?
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Old 18.07.2016, 13:51
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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We are moving out in October and need to provide the above mentioned certificates - do you know where we get these done?
It's very easy, you normally contact the manufacturer and they send someone out, or there may be a sticker on the appliance or in your dossier of whoi to call. Its inexpensive, verifies the machine you have been using is in good order and properly maintained, and gives the incoming tenant an element of protection should there be a problem with an appliance when they move in.


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sooo I checked my contract. Kleine Unterhalt is part of the contract (but the text does not mention service cleaning of the Washer-Dryer?), but apart from that no word on the washing machine. In the move out chapter it is only requested that the flat is cleaned in a professional manner (which was done and accepted).
I guess I'll have to call my legal insurance or the Mieterverband tomorrow.
I never understand the logic of people who want perfection and everything in order when the move in, yet come move out time wish to do as little as possible.
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Old 18.07.2016, 16:07
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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...I never understand the logic of people who want perfection and everything in order when the move in, yet come move out time wish to do as little as possible.
That may be part of it, but I suspect it's also case of things being different here than they are wherever someone else previously lived.

There are numerous things I've found different here compared to the U.S., particularly with respect to wear and tear. In general, U.S. landlords/owners don't charge tenants for servicing, repairing or replacing appliances, unless the tenant was negligent and caused damage. Similarly, most flats are repainted before each new tenant, and unless the prior tenant was negligent they don't have to pay for even a percentage of the painting. These are part of the expenses of being an owner of a property.

If you come from the U.S. system to here, it can be a bit of shock to think you have to pay for certified maintenance of an appliance you don't own. You pay rent because you're "using" the owner's property (appliances included) that the owner is supposed to maintain.

In reality, the rental price the U.S. tenant pays probably includes some of the owner's maintenance expenses. After all, the landlord knows how much it costs to flip a flat to get ready for the next person and can build that into the rent price. So the tenant still pays, but it's just a hidden cost instead of a visible one like here.
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Old 18.07.2016, 16:17
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Re: additional costs after moving out

Shame we are't in Kansas then Dorothy, it would be much cheaper.

Fact remain it is std here, and if not a stipulation, it often falls under small maintenance as a general clause, so really I see no reason why there should be an issue with complying. Many on here will encounter things that are different from our home countries... but this is our new Kansas, so up to us to learn to fit in.

Last edited by Papa Goose; 18.07.2016 at 17:13.
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Old 18.07.2016, 17:24
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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Shame we are't in Kansas then Dorothy, it would be much cheaper.

Fact remain it is std here, and if not a stipulation, it often falls under small maintenance as a general clause, so really I see no reason why there should be an issue with complying. Many on here will encounter things that are different from our home countries... but this is our new Kansas, so up to us to learn to fit in.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that sometimes it's a lack of understanding of how things are done and therefore thinking the charges are unfair or a scam...rather than making a deliberate attempt to thwart the rules to save a few Rappen. Sometimes.
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Old 18.07.2016, 17:45
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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No, in short, unless the appliance is more than 10 years old.

Its perfectly normal for you to pay to have things like, steamers, washing machines, tumble dryers etc serviced and the certificate presented at handover.

It's nothing to do with cleanliness and more for calc' build up, and to make sure the machine is in good working order. Failing to treat washing machines etc to reduce calc' build up is your responsibility, and damage due to calc is not normally covered by warranty. If you check your dossier there will probably be 1 when you moved in, unless the appliance was new. If you have a fireplace you will need to have the chimney cleaned to.
Beobachter has a different opinion
http://www.beobachter.ch/wohnen/umzu...machen-lassen/
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Old 18.07.2016, 18:10
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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We are moving out in October and need to provide the above mentioned certificates - do you know where we get these done?
http://www.service7000.ch/#!page=ser...=56f1d0ec011ec worked for me, alternatively by manufacturer

https://www.google.ch/?gws_rd=ssl#q=...er+z%C3%BCrich
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Old 18.07.2016, 18:13
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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Yes, deposit is a big problem for all people renting the flat when they want to move... They can pick if they want thinking that you wouldn't go to the court for this amount . Officially all these small issues must be written in contract, but in real life they can show some "specialised document in regard of the machine" or nothing at all.
No, they must not.

More info here in German.
https://www.google.ch/search?q=k+tip...IO2P8Qe8_YyADA
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Old 18.07.2016, 18:36
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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I never understand the logic of people who want perfection and everything in order when the move in, yet come move out time wish to do as little as possible.
I never said I wanted everything when moving in (also, it's not part of the discussion). Neither did I imply anywhere that I want to do as little as possible moving out. What you do here is projection of your opinion, not logic.

The flat was given back in as-new condition with no damage to anything whatsoever, so yes, I will defend my position not to be ripped off another 200 francs for some nonsense they throw at me spontaneously.

Feel free to call me a cheapo, I am one. But logic tells me I'm maybe just a different mindset than you.
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Old 18.07.2016, 18:46
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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sooo I checked my contract. Kleine Unterhalt is part of the contract (but the text does not mention service cleaning of the Washer-Dryer?), but apart from that no word on the washing machine. In the move out chapter it is only requested that the flat is cleaned in a professional manner (which was done and accepted).
I guess I'll have to call my legal insurance or the Mieterverband tomorrow.

Replacing filters etc are exactly one example of "Kleiner Unterhalt". They do not have to be mentioned explicitly; that's pretty standard understanding here. The same way as we do not have to read in a manual that dryers are not good for living creatures. Pretty common knowledge. Well, at least on this side of the pond.
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Old 18.07.2016, 18:48
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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I also asked the Mieterverband today over the phone. They say if it's a service technician that is needed, then it's definitely not Kleiner Unterhalt (small maintenance), which is by definition something that a tenant should be able to perform.

They also said it's a gray zone and the fighting with the agency might not be worth that 200 francs. I'll send the agency this link nevertheless, and see what they have to say.
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Old 18.07.2016, 18:51
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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Replacing filters etc are exactly one example of "Kleiner Unterhalt". They do not have to be mentioned explicitly; that's pretty standard understanding here. The same way as we do not have to read in a manual that dryers are not good for living creatures. Pretty common knowledge. Well, at least on this side of the pond.
well if you imply that I'm from the US, you seem to have missed by about 7000 km's... also, the question was more on the washer-dryer, which does not fall under small maintenance.
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Old 18.07.2016, 20:14
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Re: additional costs after moving out

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well if you imply that I'm from the US, you seem to have missed by about 7000 km's... also, the question was more on the washer-dryer, which does not fall under small maintenance.
The filters are certainly your reponsibility as a tenant, you should be changing them regularly ( or washing them if they're the washable kind) in any case if you're using the hood whilst cooking.

The machine maintenance/service is definitely a grey area and I think lots of people have challenged this and won as I don't think you are legally obliged to do this. (Sbrinz or Rob1 or somebody posted a link to it in another thread on the subject).
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Old 20.08.2016, 12:15
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Re: additional costs after moving out

so, I got the invoice from the agency:
- active carbon filter swap 60CHF
- checking the washer-dryer by a service technician (no problems found as expected) 128CHF
- upfront payment on heating costs(??) 150CHF

300CHF+ payment where I think nothing is due for them. Needless to say I'm not going to pay this much as I had nothing like this in our contract.

I moved out exactly on the month where the yearly meter readings took place, so I'm leaving a clean slate... and yet they request that I pay upfront. why?
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