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Old 05.09.2016, 13:03
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Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

We are moving [] end of November.
We (parents+toddler+baby) have been living in a nice apartment in Luzern for 2.5 years. Inevitably, we have caused some damages to the apartment:
  • Painting on the walls (both pencil and felt) by my toddler in two rooms of the house. The walls were not freshly done when we moved in.
  • Scratches on the parkett (both toddler and husband). The parkett had just been redone before our moving in.
  • Discoloration on the parkett of the kids' room (toddler had a rough night, ended up sleeping on the floor and p*ssing on the floor - floor had a darker stain by the time I discovered him). The parkett is still smooth and glossy, just darker (circle of diameter 30cm).
  • Some tiny scratches on kitchen working surface (done by myself with kitchen knive, when in a hurry to prepare dinner)
I am trying to make a budget for the total costs of moving, but I have no clue what the damages are going to cost us. I have "declared" them to the "third-party" insurance, and I tried to ask the Mieterverband for help to estimate the total cost (no success, not even ballpark figures). Furthermore, after reading some articles on Beobachter.ch and the website of Mieterverband, I am even more confused. It seems that damages due to negligence are not covered. Have I been negligent? I am having nightmares, where we end up with a bill for 10k or something similar!
Is anyone able to shed some light?



On a different note: Is it worth trying to cover some of the colourful paintings on the well ourselves? White-washing on standard "bumpy" walls should be easy, right?
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Old 05.09.2016, 13:12
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

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We are moving [] end of November.
We (parents+toddler+baby) have been living in a nice apartment in Luzern for 2.5 years. Inevitably, we have caused some damages to the apartment:
  • Painting on the walls (both pencil and felt) by my toddler in two rooms of the house. The walls were not freshly done when we moved in.
  • Scratches on the parkett (both toddler and husband). The parkett had just been redone before our moving in.
  • Discoloration on the parkett of the kids' room (toddler had a rough night, ended up sleeping on the floor and p*ssing on the floor - floor had a darker stain by the time I discovered him). The parkett is still smooth and glossy, just darker (circle of diameter 30cm).
  • Some tiny scratches on kitchen working surface (done by myself with kitchen knive, when in a hurry to prepare dinner)
I am trying to make a budget for the total costs of moving, but I have no clue what the damages are going to cost us. I have "declared" them to the "third-party" insurance, and I tried to ask the Mieterverband for help to estimate the total cost (no success, not even ballpark figures). Furthermore, after reading some articles on Beobachter.ch and the website of Mieterverband, I am even more confused. It seems that damages due to negligence are not covered. Have I been negligent? I am having nightmares, where we end up with a bill for 10k or something similar!
Is anyone able to shed some light?



On a different note: Is it worth trying to cover some of the colourful paintings on the well ourselves? White-washing on standard "bumpy" walls should be easy, right?
If you have a Hauswart who looks after the building (usually contact details on the notice board at the entrance, give him call and ask him to come by and have a look. He will probably be able to give you a rough estimate of what kind of cost is involved.

Parkett is probably the most expensive on your list.
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Old 05.09.2016, 13:18
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

Aren't scratches on the parquet considered normal wear & tear?

Unless of course you are talking about major damage due to shuffling furniture around etc...
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Old 05.09.2016, 13:25
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

None of this sound negligent to me and your insurance will pay out. You will have to pay a small franchise.
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Old 05.09.2016, 13:56
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

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None of this sound negligent to me and your insurance will pay out. You will have to pay a small franchise.
Not if the damaged stuff(s) is already amortized. Read about "amortissement", ASLOCA even did publish a list with the stuff lifetime.

I published it recently here, can't be bothered to do better than the above, especially for free
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Old 05.09.2016, 14:01
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

Hi,

I would agree with porsch1909. In any case, it does not seem like this is going to be anywhere close to 10K. From my experience of talking to landlords here, they would use common sense when calculating the cost of work involved (they won't necessarily re-paint the entire wall if there are only a few marks on it). If the walls weren't painted right before you moved in, you won't have to cover the entire cost of painting anyway (the walls are painted every 7 years or so and tenants only pay a percentage for the years that the walls could have lasted after they moved out). Please check the Mieterverband on this:

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...ertabelle.html
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Old 05.09.2016, 14:01
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

It's good that you are insured for 3rd party liability.
If you are a member of the Mieterverband, you can have one of their experts present at the hand over. They complete a survey/damages form. This helps to make things clear, and reduces the risk of later disputes. Age/Value tables are applied to damaged items so you pay more for damage to things which have a longer remaining life.
Apart from that, there is not much you can do to influence the situation.
I would not recommend attempting large repairs yourself in case you make things worse (using mismatching paint etc.)

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Old 05.09.2016, 14:12
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

For markings on the wall, try buying Magic Eraser sponge from any grocery store. They don't sell the Magic Eraser brand here, but it's a white sponge. Just wet the sponge, squeeze out excess water, then wipe. A few seconds later, and you'll have a nice clean wall again. It's my life-saver!

Good luck!
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Old 05.09.2016, 14:23
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

If you have insurance then please don't lose any sleep. I remember we put off buying because we were so worried about moving out costs. I didn't sleep for a good week before check out, felt physically sick before and during. They were picky, mean and fussy. I rang the insurance and they just said, yep all normal, send us the bill, no worries. This included a circle on the granite work top from a product that ate into the finish, black marks on the walls from the kids shoving the sofas into the walls, Parkett scratched and marked from furniture etc etc. We lived there for 7 years, had two toddlers and a cat but were clean and non-smokers. All sorted, no issues and I wish I had known it would all be covered. It seemed to be a game for the management company - with the Hauswart and cleaner exchanging raised eyebrows and wry smiles. The Hauswart even took personal responsibility for a cracked tile when he did me a huge favour unblocking the toilet after my son blocked it entirely with the lid of a cotton bud pot. He used a huge plunger and worked hard so that I didn't have to pay for the wall to be dismantled (stupid built in system).
upshot, don't worry.
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Old 05.09.2016, 19:15
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

As others have said, insurance can be very handy at the end of leases.

If you aren't a member of the MV yet and just called them for info, I recommend becoming a member even if they can't help you in your current situation - membership is always useful in one way or another.

As for damage costs, if you have insurance and have reported the damages IMMEDIATELY upon noticing them*, they should be covered (IMO, that is) if they weren't caused deliberately or happened due to gross negligence. Best to consult your insurance documents on the fine-print regarding negligence, and asking your insurance company for clarification if necessary.

If you want to try to cover up the paintings, I recommend only doing so after having asked the insurance if they STILL will cover a (possible) repainting if your landlord deems the walls not nice/clean/perfect enough even after your repainting job. If they say no, don't repaint and hope that your landlord will consider the painting normal (kid-induced) wear and tear - if he doesn't, your insurance might cover repainting (if you haven't been negligent etc.)

Take pictures, pictures, pictures. If you are allowed to repaint by the insurance company, take pictures before and after repainting.

In your next place, ask the landlord upon moving in what the shade/color/number of your wall paint is so that you can paint over small (!) wall spots and such yourself when you move out rather than having to cough up the dough for a professional company of the landlord's choosing to redo the entire wall.



*Important for this to happen is, as you have done, to always report damages immediately upon noticing and that the damages haven't happened over time without your attempting to prevent their getting worse. So, check your place regularly for damages.

Last edited by glowjupiter; 05.09.2016 at 19:38.
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Old 05.09.2016, 23:41
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

Thanks for your contributions! I have been relieved from a great deal of stress.

I have been a member of the MV for many years, but it is the first time I will need their help! Actually, I made an appointment with them and went over to their local office here in Luzern to show them my photos. I did get some help (they clarified what is considered normal and what "übermässige" use), but they were not able to provide an approximate figure of the total cost.

I am insured with AXA. I have declared the damages, using their questionnaire. In the confirmation response I got, it clearly says: "As soon as you receive the bill of expenses from the owner, you can forward this to us - unpaid - to be checked". In other words, AXA will deal with the owner/Verwaltung on my behalf? Too good to be true .
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Old 05.09.2016, 23:46
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

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I didn't sleep for a good week before check out, felt physically sick before and during.
Thank you very much for sharing! This is exactly how I had started feeling (even though hand-over is scheduled for mid-November)!
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Old 05.09.2016, 23:47
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

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In other words, AXA will deal with the owner/Verwaltung on my behalf? Too good to be true .
Why? That's what you have insurance for.

Seriously, stop worrying - everything'll be fine.
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Old 06.09.2016, 16:59
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

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None of this sound negligent to me and your insurance will pay out. You will have to pay a small franchise.
Agree. I wouldn't worry. The discoloration may be the only bit that goes beyond normal wear & tear, but even that should be covered by insurance, to a large extent anyway. They're quite generous typically
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Old 06.02.2017, 23:15
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

After quite some time, I am coming back to update this thread.
We have now happily settled in our new home, and most of the issues that were pending from our move have been resolved.
One of the last issues was the bill for the damages we caused. And... I just got it last week, it amounts to CHF1600: About CHF800 for repainting some walls, charged at 50% (4 years out of 8 had already passed, so we were only liable for 50% of the cost), plus CHF800 for key replacement (totally my fault). The discoloration of the wooden floor and some scratches were classified as normal wear-and-tear!
Now the good news, AXA received the copy of the bill and they have agreed to pay for the damages in full (minus CHF300 deductible). They are really generous, I have to admit, because losing my keys was definitely negligence on my part.
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Old 13.02.2017, 14:55
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

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After quite some time, I am coming back to update this thread.
We have now happily settled in our new home, and most of the issues that were pending from our move have been resolved.
One of the last issues was the bill for the damages we caused. And... I just got it last week, it amounts to CHF1600: About CHF800 for repainting some walls, charged at 50% (4 years out of 8 had already passed, so we were only liable for 50% of the cost), plus CHF800 for key replacement (totally my fault). The discoloration of the wooden floor and some scratches were classified as normal wear-and-tear!
Now the good news, AXA received the copy of the bill and they have agreed to pay for the damages in full (minus CHF300 deductible). They are really generous, I have to admit, because losing my keys was definitely negligence on my part.
CHF 800 for key replacement?! Did you use golden keys to get in?
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Old 13.02.2017, 15:43
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

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CHF 800 for key replacement?! Did you use golden keys to get in?
Depending on the type of key they obviously have to replace the locks. That costs more than 20 bucks.
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Old 13.02.2017, 16:36
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

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Depending on the type of key they obviously have to replace the locks. That costs more than 20 bucks.
In our building it is in excess of 1000 chf for a lost key.
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Old 22.05.2018, 17:11
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Re: Moving, how to calculate cost of damages

One question: Won't the insurance company complain that, for example, this damage (mark on wall, scratch,..) has happened 3 years before you leave and you should have told us then?
Is there any type of damage that one should declare to the insurance company ASAP and not at the time of moving?
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