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  #21  
Old 10.10.2016, 13:43
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

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I am in complete panic right now. Meiterverband said pack your stuff put in storage. Pro Infirmis were no help either. Where on earth do I find another aparatment at this time of year with betriebungsamt
Breathe. You're probably not going to find the best places in the best locations, but you should still be able to get somewhere. Start looking, you still have a couple of months to find something.
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  #22  
Old 10.10.2016, 13:43
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

Not sure anyone really can help Nettles, as it seems the situation has been going on for a long time, associated with other problems, as per an earlier post re other debts and losing job, etc. The rentors probably feel that even if you've paid this time, you may not be able to pay the next- especially if you have a Betreibung record of unpaid debts- and no garantor in case you default. Tough- but the reality out there. And that is for a very simple flat in a cheap part of CH - at 750 per month all in.

Are you a member of the Mietverband? (Edit, I see you have talked to them and that they have advised, even if it is not what you hoped to hear). They will be able to advise much better than anyone here without all the facts and figures. Good luck.

I have a relative who has come back after living abroad most of his life and now in poor health- the only way he could rent a flat was if someone signed as a guarantor for his rent, in case he doesn't or can't pay + SwissCaution to provide the deposit for a fee.

As others have said- drip drip info means no-one can help with suggestions. Are you currently un-employed (as per your post in May) or on sick leave, etc. How long before your benefits stop? ETc.

Last edited by Odile; 10.10.2016 at 14:30.
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Old 10.10.2016, 19:02
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

I have been very sick for a few years. Last year while I was in a coma the KESB reorganised my rent increasing it from 2490 to 2910 plus an additional 300. I didnt know. I was 3 months in hospital. But I paid it. In fact I paid it 14 times last year. This year after getting rid of KESB I discovered an awful lot of bills that they said were paid were in fact not paid. Betriebungsamt came after me. They took 2000 per month which left me with just a little over 3200. Not enough to pay all. I simply asked the apartment people if I could just not pay the 420 nebercosten. They instantly sent me a notice to terminate my lease.
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  #24  
Old 10.10.2016, 19:05
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

@Nettles
If I were being evicted, I too would be a bundle of nerves. No matter how your story developed, and no matter what part of it you yourself contributed, where you are standing right now is not a nice place to be. So you have my compassion for that.

Here are a number of ideas, and some of them you'll have tried, others you may not yet know.

As I understand it, you went to the Mieterverband, and they told you to put your stuff in storage. If that's their advice, then they do not believe you will be able to change your landlord's mind. However, you do not have to put your stuff in storage until the end of the lease. If that is 31st December, then you can still leave your things in the flat, and live in the flat, for the rest of October, for November, and for December, as least up until Christmas.
I would suggest you used that time to go through your possessions and choose carefully what you would like to keep and see if you can get rid of anything.
It is not often worth paying for storage for things that don't mean much to you personally, and could easily be bought again in the Brockenhaus, for less money than it would cost to store them. This goes for most IKEA furniture, for crockery and cutlery for everyday use, and all sorts of other household items.
Do not get rid of things that are of dear emotional importance to you (e.g. photos, any cuddly toy from your childhood, your teenage poster, a gift special to you because it brings back happy memories, your most comfortable pillow): keep those. Choose to keep items which remind you of kind people, of good moments in your life, of encouraging people, of fun, comfort and achievement. Also keep items which are super-practical and sit well in your hand, e.g. The Perfect Can-Opener, or The Ideal Vacuum Cleaner.
Remember that storage space is usually charged by volume, so you can also plan how things could fit inside each other.

Parallel, try to get some advice on budgeting and sorting out your finances. For example from the
http://www.ksdz.ch/index.php?id=4
This social service (Kirchlicher Sozialdienst) is co-funded by the two big state churches, and is free for anyone, independent of religious affiliation. The website is in German, but if you do not speak it, you could still ask there if someone could help you in English (or any other language you speak).

You say you went to “pro infirmis”, but did not find them helpful. Their service is very variable and it could be that it might be worth your while calling there again, on a different day, in case you get someone else on the phone.

You might also try “pro mente sana”. https://www.promentesana.ch/de/ueber-uns/portrait.html Just as “pro infirmis” is an organisation whose job it is to help people with a disability – any kind of disability – “pro mente sana” is to help people with a mental illness. Even if this is not you, and even if you are basically psychologically healthy, right now you are in need, and at least some of your pain is emotional/mental/psychological. That’s why I add pro mente sana to the list.

If I understand it correctly, you used to be employed but lost your job. If you are entitled to unemployment benefits, but have not yet claimed them (people have all sorts of reasons why this could be the case), then I would like to encourage you to register with the relevant RAV (Regionaler Arbeitsvermittlung).

If you are not entitled to unemployment benefits (for example because you did not work for long enough), and you now have very little money, you might consider registering with the Sozialamt (social services). However, please first be aware that drawing benefits from the Sozialamt can count against you when later trying to renew your permit to stay in Switzerland, or later trying to naturalise to become Swiss. Therefore, it is a good option if you are already Swiss. It is a last resort if you are not.

If I were in your position, I would make a very good, friendly, up-beat, reliable-sounding, honest couchsurfing profile, and start doing a little couchsurfing right away, and build up your references. That way, if – and it is still a big IF – you are really without any home in January, you are likely to find someone who might like to host you for a few days or even, if you make yourself helpful and they don’t get the feeling that you’re asking them to solve your problems, for a few weeks.
www.couchsurfing.com. It is free to join, and you do not have to pay the “verification” fee.

A couchsurfing profile can also be a good basis to find a flat-share. There are many to be found on www.wgzimmer.ch. The advantage with sharing is that you are sub-tenant, and so your Betreibungen usually don’t need to count against you as sharply as they do when trying to rent a flat in your own name.

Domicil is an organisation that helps people to find flats.
They do so by being the bridge between people who have fallen on hard times and landlords, very often landlords who are looking for temporary tenants, e.g. for the last six months before a building is pulled down or renovated. That’s not a permanent home, but it is still a roof over one’s head. You can contact them directly to ask how it works, or see here: https://www.domicilwohnen.ch/index.php?siteId=58

The City of Zurich owns many flats, and as a landlord they are not as strict about Betreibungen as other landlords. This is because they have a social mandate to help house people who might not otherwise find a home. Of course, their flats are greatly sought-after, and it is hard work to get one. The ONLY way to apply (the do not keep waiting lists and do not take casual applications) is to respond to the adverts which are updated every Wednesday here:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/fd/de/i...mietungen.html
Scroll down to “Ausschreibung vom ….“ and click on the link for this week’s ads.
In most cases there are fixed viewing times. In that case, it is good to get there an hour or half-an-hour early (make sure you wrap up warm as winter draws in) so that you are near the front of the queue. Occasionally there are fixed telephone times. You have to go there or phone then, exactly when they say. They make no exceptions.

I have written all this assuming you are single.
If you have children, then your situation is different.

Good luck, and don’t lose hope.

Last edited by doropfiz; 10.10.2016 at 20:13. Reason: fixing paragraphs
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  #25  
Old 10.10.2016, 19:13
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

I don't know if you're on your own or not but it should be relatively easy for you to rent a room for 700-800CHF per month in a private house with a family

I did this for a few months when I was kicked out and unemployed and was a blessing in disguise as it gave me a lot of flexibility
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  #26  
Old 10.10.2016, 19:23
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

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I have been very sick for a few years. Last year while I was in a coma the KESB reorganised my rent increasing it from 2490 to 2910 plus an additional 300. I didnt know. I was 3 months in hospital. But I paid it. In fact I paid it 14 times last year. This year after getting rid of KESB I discovered an awful lot of bills that they said were paid were in fact not paid. Betriebungsamt came after me. They took 2000 per month which left me with just a little over 3200. Not enough to pay all. I simply asked the apartment people if I could just not pay the 420 nebercosten. They instantly sent me a notice to terminate my lease.
How did you end up paying 14 rents? And how could the other bills be paid if you hadn't actually paid them? I understand and sympathize that you were sick, but you still need to keep your financial affairs in order.
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  #27  
Old 10.10.2016, 19:25
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

And how can the rent be increased by those amounts? CHF 420 and then another CHF 300? Per month?

And I am surprised they sent you a cancellation/eviction notice when you asked to postpone payment? There are legal steps to be taken first (as written in my first answer)
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  #28  
Old 10.10.2016, 19:45
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

I agree with Porsch- you need to find something with a much lower rent to help you get back on your feet. I am obviously totally out of touch with ZH places- but for 2500+ in my area you could rent a castle.

No idea where 'back home' is- but is it a possibility for you? One of our adult daughters had to move back in with us for a while after living abroad for some years- not easy- but it allowed her to get back on her feet. It is so hard to give any advice that makes sense with so little info- but Mietverband usually know what is possible or not.
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Old 10.10.2016, 19:47
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

My late employer (Swiss) was evicted on short notice (noisy children) just before Christmas (50 years ago) in ZH, so he said FU and moved back to Ticino where he set up a very succesful business.

Always a possibility.

Tom
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Old 10.10.2016, 20:05
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

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I have been very sick for a few years. Last year while I was in a coma the KESB reorganised my rent increasing it from 2490 to 2910 plus an additional 300. I didnt know. I was 3 months in hospital. But I paid it. In fact I paid it 14 times last year. This year after getting rid of KESB I discovered an awful lot of bills that they said were paid were in fact not paid. Betriebungsamt came after me. They took 2000 per month which left me with just a little over 3200. Not enough to pay all. I simply asked the apartment people if I could just not pay the 420 nebercosten. They instantly sent me a notice to terminate my lease.
Why did you pay 14 times? And how is KESB involved exactly? Why did the rent increase (that usually can't be done randomly)?
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Old 10.10.2016, 20:07
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

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Why did you pay 14 times?
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How did you end up paying 14 rents? And how could the other bills be paid if you hadn't actually paid them? I understand and sympathize that you were sick, but you still need to keep your financial affairs in order.
This situation can happen to anyone whose life has been running in order, until things go wrong. It only takes a few too many blows, suffered at once, for things to get out of balance.

Sadly, it is precisely when one is ill that it can so easily become difficult or impossible to keep one's financial affairs in order. If the illness lasts for a while, and even more so when someone else (in Nettles' case the KESB) takes over doing the admin, it can be difficult to reconstruct - thereafter - what happened.

Rent is due 12x, that's clear. But bills of all sorts, also rent, can be paid twice, inadvertently, if both the actual bill and the reminder bill are used.
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Old 10.10.2016, 20:14
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

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Rent is due 12x, that's clear. But bills of all sorts, also rent, can be paid twice, inadvertently, if both the actual bill and the reminder bill are used.
well, but in such a case, the extra money that has been accidentally paid will either be paid back or used for rent for the following month(s) or even for something else upon agreement. Happened to me once with insurance, got a reduction the following time, simple. A landlord is of course not allowed to keep 14 rents just like that.
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Old 10.10.2016, 20:17
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

Yes, that's true, that the landlord wouldn't be allowed to simply keep 14 rents, just like that. However, proving this is the crux of the matter. If the papers are not in order, as Nettles says, because the people who were suppose to be looking after them did not file them or document properly what they did, then Nettles now has the problem of picking up those pieces, too.

That's why I suggested finding someone who would work through the files and try to make some sense of the budget.
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Old 10.10.2016, 20:22
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

@Nettles
here's another place that might be able to help, at least to get things in a tidy row, and help set the priorities.


The organisation "Kompass" is a part of the City of Zurich Health Department. https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/gud/de/...d/kompass.html

Its services are either free, or paid for by the medical insurance.
Kompass offers a kind of "Case Management" which is not focussed on getting the person back to work (as some Case Management is), but instead aims to gain an overview of the many areas which need to be addressed, to sort out which organisations, companies, businesses and government departments are involved, to coordinate between them if necessary (and as far as the client gives permission for that), and to try to de-escalate the situation, so that solutions become more likely.
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  #35  
Old 10.10.2016, 20:42
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

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Yes, that's true, that the landlord wouldn't be allowed to simply keep 14 rents, just like that. However, proving this is the crux of the matter. If the papers are not in order, as Nettles says, because the people who were suppose to be looking after them did not file them or document properly what they did, then Nettles now has the problem of picking up those pieces, too.

That's why I suggested finding someone who would work through the files and try to make some sense of the budget.
You show your bank statements, 14 went out. 2 either did or didn't go back in.

I really cannot understand why people don't simply set up direct debits on their rental payments and then be secure in the knowledge that its going out each and every month without fail.
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  #36  
Old 10.10.2016, 20:45
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

I fully agree with you on that. And for less frequent payments I use E invoicing, goes directly to my online banking tool and I can release it for payment.

And as for what was paid and what not: that should show on your bank statements?
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Old 10.10.2016, 21:13
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

I agree it's not that difficult to prove, though of course yes, a legal adviser should sort that for you if you're unable to take care of your paperwork yourself.

Which is why I'm still curious how KESB was involved and what their exact responsibilities were.
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Old 10.10.2016, 21:15
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

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...I really cannot understand why people don't simply set up direct debits on their rental payments and then be secure in the knowledge that its going out each and every month without fail.
Because some people forget to cancel the standing order when they leave and then have to fight to get their money back?
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Old 10.10.2016, 21:28
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

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I really cannot understand why people don't simply set up direct debits on their rental payments and then be secure in the knowledge that its going out each and every month without fail.
It's not always that simple - especially when you find yourself within a situation such as an illness that impacts you. Many illnesses are not always noticeable to others, or - terribly - carry a social stigma, such as depression. Here even the smallest thing, such as going to work, can then seem like climbing Mt. Everest on a daily basis. Not just for a bad hair day, or a bad hair month - but over a much longer longer period.

These times can lead to periods of unemployment, financial difficulties and inability to keep-up with things. The additional impact of being in a country without a family or friends social support system, or even having the language to tackle these things, is nothing to minimise.

There are many (also many successful, even well-known) folk in Switzerland, who then rely on e.g. the KESB for support while getting themselves on a good footing again. This can last a while - as with anywhere, the system is not perfect.

@ Nettles - hold in there - you do have sometime to find something. The interim solutions sometimes turn-out to be best, as Porsche said.

If I hear of any accommodation free over friends who've been in in similar situations, then I will definitely let you know.
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Old 10.10.2016, 22:26
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Re: Help with fighting eviction

Thank you, ZuriRollt, for a compassionate post.

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Which is why I'm still curious how KESB was involved and what their exact responsibilities were.
It seems to me that the KESB is more often in the media about children, the first inital being for "Kind" (= child, in German), so that the second initial stands for "Erwachsene" (= adult, in German) is overlooked. The S stands for "Schutz" (= protection) and the B for "Behörde" (= government department).

As it is, Nettles writes that he/she was in a coma. If there were no family members around who were automatically deemed to be in charge, then the ill person's affairs are turned over to the KESB as a matter of course.

The duties of KESB are to act in the person’s best interests, and to fulfil their legal responsibilities in their stead. Of course, sometimes this is done better, and sometimes less so.

The tricky part comes after the KESB is no longer deemed to be responsible, for example after a certain degree of health has been re-gained. Nettles, for example, is at least well enough to post on a forum. Then all the papers (or if one’s luck is poor only a part of them), fully sorted and up-to-date (or if one’s luck is poor in a total mess, in paper bags) are then returned to the person, who is considered no longer in need of any further assistance. I’ve seen kilogrammes of unsorted paper being turned over to a person who was totally incapable of sorting them, while he was told that since he was now no longer desperately ill he was defined as being no longer in need of help, and no longer eligible for help, and therefore on his own.

In such a phase, “simply” claiming those overpayments back by “merely” showing the landlord one’s bank statements as proof of payment, or the notion of “straightforwardly” setting up a direct debit (LSV)… can remain out of reach, at least not before hours and hours of successful sorting. And for that, of course, one needs the stamina and nerves (hard to maintain while being evicted) to work through the piles of paper. Or the money (and precisely in Nettles’ case he/she does not have enough of that) to pay for a legal advisor.

Switzerland has a phenomenally good set of systems of health and social care, and yet it is sometimes only a few steps between health and falling through the gaps in the social network.

@Nettles, please don't give up. I hope some of the services I've suggested might be of help. If not, you might also try going to any church near where you live, especially during their office hours, and asking if someone could help you sort the papers.

It also occurred to me that perhaps you're not getting the help you need because you might inadvertently be asking the wrong question. For example, if you ask at "pro infirmis": "How can I fight my landlord so he won't evict me?" then they will tell you that's not their job and suggest you contact the Mieterverband. Similarly if you ask them: "How can I find a flat when I have Betreibungen?" then they might shake their heads sadly and say that they can't do anything since this is a problem many people have.

However, if you ask them: "How can I find a volunteer who would sit with me for a few hours and help me sort all my papers?" then they might give you an appointment with their advisor in their "Prisma" section, which co-ordinates volunteer work. And that might help you at least as a start.
http://www.proinfirmis.ch/fileadmin/..._Kunden_01.pdf
In fact, Prisma does have people who do just that: paperwork, banking, claiming refunds from the medical insurance (or from landlords), etc., and they do it together with the person, i.e. you and they sit together, so you always know what they're doing, and they don't grab things out of your hands and run the show. The services of Prisma are free. You will have to cover any costs the helper has, e.g. busfare to your place.

Another option might be the Nachbarschaftshilfe (= neighbourhood help) which mixes and matches volunteers and folk in need of help, in a similar way, usually specifically to a neighbourhood or suburb. http://www.nachbarschaftshilfe.ch/
The Nachbarschaftshilfe might require annual membership, and as with Prisma, above, you'd cover any actual costs such as a tram ticket for the helper, if they need it.
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