Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06.12.2016, 16:37
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 159
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 68 Times in 43 Posts
some_randomer has no particular reputation at present
Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Hi - I have a female friend that lives close to Geneva. She moved to Switzerland 6 years ago to start college and has lived with her boyfriend in his apartment since then. They didn't tell the apartment management company that she moved in, but she did register at the Gemeinde with his address.

She's been a student all along and renews her student visa / permit once a year as she continues her education. Yesterday she got a letter from the management company saying they found out there was another person (her) living in the apartment and this contravenes the rules. They stated that "we wish to remind the person living there that any changes concerning the lease have to be asked in a written statement to the landlord." and they want a letter explaining the situation.

So my friend is worried that they can kick her out of the apartment or worse out of the country (she's German). Among other things she'd like to know:

- can the management company make her leave the apartment?
- could this affect her student visa and her ability to study in Switzerland?
- if she lied and said she's only moved in recently can the management company prove otherwise?
- can the management company request and receive data about her registered address from the Gemeinde?

TIA
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06.12.2016, 16:56
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Why doesn't the boyfriend take the path of least resistance and register her with the landlord as an extra person?

Before I was married and had moved to the country, that's all my boyfriend did and it was fine.

No increased rent, no fuss, no drama.

It's not as if it is something unheard of. People enter relationships and move in together, the apartment contract is altered accordingly.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 06.12.2016, 16:59
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,412
Groaned at 218 Times in 185 Posts
Thanked 21,442 Times in 9,129 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post

- can the management company make her leave the apartment?
- could this affect her student visa and her ability to study in Switzerland?
- if she lied and said she's only moved in recently can the management company prove otherwise?
- can the management company request and receive data about her registered address from the Gemeinde?
- possibly, but I don't think that's a likely course of action. More likely they want her to retroactively ask for permission or provide formal notification..
- no
- normally it is the landlord that informs the Gemeinde. I don't know what they can do in this situation.
- don't know

Rather than trying to be smart, the best thing to do in a situation like this is reach out to the management company and say you made a mistake and say you want to rectify it asap.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 06.12.2016, 18:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,200
Groaned at 265 Times in 227 Posts
Thanked 9,315 Times in 4,909 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
Rather than trying to be smart, the best thing to do in a situation like this is reach out to the management company and say you made a mistake and say you want to rectify it asap.
That.

AFAIK the landlord/regie has the duty to report the personalities of the renter(s) to the Gemeinde. This has already been done by the gf so everything should be fine, provided the apartment isn't used beyond capacity which according to the Homeowner's Association typically takes more than [number of rooms] plus two people.

Just describe the situation, remember to mention that she's been registered at that address all along, and you're done.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 06.12.2016, 18:34
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 10,088
Groaned at 149 Times in 128 Posts
Thanked 11,246 Times in 5,943 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
- can the management company make her leave the apartment? Yes it it's only a one-room appartement for example
- could this affect her student visa and her ability to study in Switzerland? No
- if she lied and said she's only moved in recently can the management company prove otherwise? Yes, the Gemeinde registered her there at a certain date
- can the management company request and receive data about her registered address from the Gemeinde? Where do you think the management company got the info from?! The management company must notify the Gemeinde about who lives in which flat. The Gemeinde probably gave them a hard time about not having mentioned you.
If the flat is big enough for two, she has to sign the contract together with her boyfriend.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 06.12.2016, 18:36
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,362
Groaned at 297 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 16,285 Times in 9,041 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
If the flat is big enough for two, she has to sign the contract together with her boyfriend.
No legal requirement to both be on the lease.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 06.12.2016, 18:46
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,715
Groaned at 54 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 9,617 Times in 3,555 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
If the flat is big enough for two, she has to sign the contract together with her boyfriend.
They don't even need to do that. She just has to inform them there's a co-habitee. There's no need for a new/updated contract unless they (GF/BF) want to go that way.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06.12.2016, 18:47
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 10,088
Groaned at 149 Times in 128 Posts
Thanked 11,246 Times in 5,943 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
No legal requirement to both be on the lease.
True, only when married.
Just realized there is actually still a lot more freedom in this than I thought. In German, sorry.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 06.12.2016, 21:28
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,997
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,053 Times in 4,500 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

As others have said, your friend's BF should just write the managmenet company and tell them they did not know they had to tell them but now you do and she is living there and they would like to continue living there together.

No drama.

Quote:
View Post
True, only when married.
Just realized there is actually still a lot more freedom in this than I thought. In German, sorry.
Not even when married are the two obliged to be on the lease.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 06.12.2016, 21:45
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 20,529
Groaned at 357 Times in 272 Posts
Thanked 15,280 Times in 8,751 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Well, a couple of thoughts.

a) I assume if the landlord/agency is pissed off enough they could cancel the boyfriend's rental contract at the next termination date.

b) Given the change in circumstances would the landlord/agency have the right to increase the rent as more people are living there than was originally agreed?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06.12.2016, 21:57
Aleydis's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 979
Groaned at 32 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 737 Times in 395 Posts
Aleydis has an excellent reputationAleydis has an excellent reputationAleydis has an excellent reputationAleydis has an excellent reputation
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
No legal requirement to both be on the lease.
The contract may say that he is obliged to inform the landlord. There is no requirement to be put on the lease though. Some prefer both to sign. That said it does not matter if just one is on the lease - both persons are responsible for rent. So when my now husband moved in with me, he did not want me to notify. Later I insisted on a prenup to retaliate.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06.12.2016, 22:03
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 10,088
Groaned at 149 Times in 128 Posts
Thanked 11,246 Times in 5,943 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
Not even when married are the two obliged to be on the lease.
They are if it's the "family flat" but that's in the marriage-law. Unless you have separation of property.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06.12.2016, 22:16
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,997
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,053 Times in 4,500 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
They are if it's the "family flat" but that's in the marriage-law. Unless you have separation of property.
The property is the "family home" even if only one is on the lease. The spouse on the lease can not unilaterally give up the apartment. They would in any case need both signatures. But again, both spouses are not obliged to be on the lease even without separation of property. I don't think a rented apartment is marital property.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 06.12.2016, 22:20
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,845
Groaned at 1,818 Times in 1,384 Posts
Thanked 32,675 Times in 15,615 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
They are if it's the "family flat" but that's in the marriage-law. Unless you have separation of property.
Nope, my wife never was until we bought it eight years later!

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 06.12.2016, 22:22
John_H's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Up above Nyon
Posts: 3,234
Groaned at 92 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 4,024 Times in 1,606 Posts
John_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
No legal requirement to both be on the lease.
But there's a legal requirement to obey the contract that one signed, no?

If the contract says you must inform the landlord of changes in occupancy, then that's what you should do..
Just like if it says you should cut the grass once per month, you should contractually do it, even though it may not be a legal requirement to cut the grass.

It says on our contract that we can't run a business from home unless agreed with the landlord. We simply simply walked over and spoke to them, all agreed over a coffee.

Talk to them, it'll be fine.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank John_H for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 06.12.2016, 22:23
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,845
Groaned at 1,818 Times in 1,384 Posts
Thanked 32,675 Times in 15,615 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
They are if it's the "family flat" but that's in the marriage-law. Unless you have separation of property.
We don't, and she was never on the lease (but listed to the commune by me as resident).

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 07.12.2016, 10:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,200
Groaned at 265 Times in 227 Posts
Thanked 9,315 Times in 4,909 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

If both sign, both are contractual parties and therefore have to be informed about changes (i.e. two registered letter for each change); to cancel the contract both have to sign the termination note. Each of the two is individually liable for the rent as well as for any damages, it's called "solidarische Haftung".

If only one signs, married or not, s/he's the only contractually relevant and bound person. Consequentually and based on the contract only, only the signatory has to be informed about any changes in the contract by the landlord/regie, only s/he can cancel, and only s/he can be held liable for the rent and any damages.

Now, 162 ZGB (Zivilgesetzbuch) regulates that the marital home has to be determined by both together. As a consequence 266m OR (Obligationenrecht) rules that the renters can't terminate the lease unless both have signed, and that (266n OR) a termination notice by the landlord must be sent to both individually; presumably likewise for any changes in the contract.

If the landlord hasn't been informed about the marriage or registered partnership he's unable to follow due procedure by sending a letter to both individually, analoguous for changes/termination initiated by the renter.

So obviously there's a contradiction between a contract signed by only one spouse and the law. That's why the contract typically demands that the regie/landlord must be informed about any changes - by not informing him the renter is in breach of the contract already.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 07.12.2016, 15:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 655
Groaned at 41 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 835 Times in 372 Posts
marischi has a reputation beyond reputemarischi has a reputation beyond reputemarischi has a reputation beyond reputemarischi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
True, only when married.
Just realized there is actually still a lot more freedom in this than I thought. In German, sorry.
This is not always the case.

I told the landlord when my then boyfriend moved in and - as I remember - the Kreis also sent the landlord a notification to verify that he was aware of that.

When we got married this year, I asked them if they wanted to extend the lease to us both - Solidarmieterschaft - as I was the only holder of the lease.

They told me that they would leave the lease in my hands - no need to change it into a Solidarmieterschaft.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07.12.2016, 15:58
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 11,111
Groaned at 85 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 16,866 Times in 7,507 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Friend living with boyfriend but did not inform managament company

Quote:
View Post
Well, a couple of thoughts.

a) I assume if the landlord/agency is pissed off enough they could cancel the boyfriend's rental contract at the next termination date.

b) Given the change in circumstances would the landlord/agency have the right to increase the rent as more people are living there than was originally agreed?
a) They could cancel even when they are not pissed.

b) It may depend on how the auxiliary costs, specially warm water is calculated and split among the renters. Base rent should not be affected by number of people.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Urgent - moving company did not finish job antrope Housing in general 7 09.05.2016 23:48
Fined, but the SBB machine did not accept my money! DavidPesenti Complaints corner 47 17.02.2015 13:12
To inform or not inform Xander Finance/banking/taxation 3 14.11.2008 22:00
eu citizen living with swiss boyfriend crimson Permits/visas/government 20 07.10.2007 14:46
Non-EU Citizen living with Swiss boyfriend - Permit Options s268952 Permits/visas/government 8 03.10.2007 13:14


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0