Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04.01.2017, 11:24
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonstetten
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
gobugi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Thanks for sharing your experience and for the advice.
The house we are buying was built in 2005, and we got explained that the house does not need any major renovation. The agent told us that we may want to paint the wall and other than that it is in a good condition.

Both my husband and I do not know about house renovation, and did not fully understand which kinds of risks we could have with the clause. I start worry after reading all the comments and think we really need to find a good expert to examine the house.

We think we offered pretty good price and we do not want to add more than what we offered for the condition to remove the clause. And I guess that the owner will not want to negotiate the price also.

With the clause, how much and how long the current owner should take the responsibility? If we know the answer, it will be easier to guess our benefits and risks with/without the clause.

Thanks!

Quote:
View Post
Were it me, I'd leave the clause and negotiate harder on price... is that an option in this case?

---
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04.01.2017, 11:30
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonstetten
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
gobugi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

The house was built in 2005, and there was no major renovation until now.

Quote:
View Post
That is basically the "do not come back to us when you find asbestos clause"

When was the house built? Or when did it receive major renovation?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04.01.2017, 11:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 7,846
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 16,716 Times in 5,430 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Quote:
View Post
With the clause, how much and how long the current owner should take the responsibility? If we know the answer, it will be easier to guess our benefits and risks with/without the clause.
With the clause you, the buyer, release the owner from all liability from the moment you sign the sale contract.

There are some things in the OR, as pointed out by me. anon down thread - but I do not know how it would end up in court if you tried to stick the owners after releasing them in the sales contract. Hopefully a legal beagle type will chime in.

But that said... really, do think carefully before you go this route. As per my earlier post, when I sell the most important thing I will want is a clean break. If a buyer made any noises that made me think he would become a pain post sale I would quickly tell him the deal is off. There will be other buyers.

Only you can decide which path carries greater risk than you can stomach.


---

Honestly - are you sure you are ready for home ownership at this time? These are some pretty fundamental questions, things you should have considered long before getting to the offer stage. Perhaps you should do a bit of soul searching now, before you make the final commitment.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04.01.2017, 11:39
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonstetten
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
gobugi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

The house was built in 2005, and it was explained that it's in a good condition. We asked about the clause to the notary and he gave us an example that we may find the fridge is out of order after a few months, or so.
After the advice that I receive from here, i think the notary gave us a bad example. Thanks for the advice for the option to change the notary. We will ask the notary to give us better explanation about the risks with the clause.
For the case, would you please give me the contact info of the notary who was working for your case?

Quote:
View Post
And frankly I'd get another notary. We asked for one who spoke English which the real estate agency organised for us and on the day we went to sign the contract he went through it paragraph by paragraph with us to make sure we understood it; that's what he's supposed to do - make sure both sides understand their obligations under the contract. As well as the clause on the rewiring we had one or two small changes which he had his staff amend in the contract immediately so we could sign that day. You shouldn't be struggling to understand the contract on your own.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04.01.2017, 11:41
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,449
Groaned at 272 Times in 216 Posts
Thanked 14,717 Times in 5,973 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Quote:
View Post
It is the Notary's responsibility to ensure the parties understand the contents of the contract, but that probably stops short of translating into a foreign language. As Medea said, either change notary to one that speaks good enough English or get someone trustworthy and with sufficient language skills to translate. Given that you are already some distance down the road with this notary, changing now would no doubt incur extra costs so maybe the second option would be the most practical.
That's true and if the notary believes that one of the parties does not understand the contract fully then they can stop the sale going ahead.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 04.01.2017, 11:43
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,175
Groaned at 51 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 840 Times in 518 Posts
ivank is considered knowledgeableivank is considered knowledgeableivank is considered knowledgeable
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Notary is not a problem. It's your problem if you don't understand what, as meloncoulle put it, "With the clause you, the buyer, release the owner from all liability from the moment you sign the sale contract" means. There's countless things that could go wrong, it'll be totally your problem to deal with them once you sign the contract, and it's totally normal in immo. It's a moderately risky business. Best way to deal with them is by having deep pockets, don't pay your last money for the house, you'll need more. But there's also a good chance you'll be sufficiently rewarded for the risk in the end with savings on the rent and profits on the sale.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank ivank for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 04.01.2017, 12:29
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonstetten
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
gobugi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

We think the notary didn't give us a good example as we also think changing appliances are really minor problems. That is actually why we started having questions on it, as we thought it is more than the appliances.
My husband and I didn't think that we would have some major problem on the house as it is a relatively new one. Actually that was our major reason to buy this house. We started worrying about the clause as a few people we asked pointed out that the clause should be removed.
We already paid the deposit and arranged a visiting for the inspection of the house. Thanks for all the valuable advice.

Quote:
View Post
Things the notary mentioned like the washing machine and fridge are, frankly, incidentals.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04.01.2017, 12:38
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 6,345
Groaned at 312 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 9,994 Times in 4,020 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

If you are not sure, and know nothing about renovations / what to look for etc etc then for god sake get a survey done, of course the agent is going to tell you everything is fine, he works for the seller and wants his commission, for the sake of a few hundred chf's and your peace of mind get a pro in to check the house.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04.01.2017, 12:43
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonstetten
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
gobugi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Wow, these are very useful information. Thanks a lot!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04.01.2017, 12:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,175
Groaned at 51 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 840 Times in 518 Posts
ivank is considered knowledgeableivank is considered knowledgeableivank is considered knowledgeable
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Even if you make the seller remove that clause (which would give you 2 y warranty basically), there are still many risks that you won't be able to stick to him. Rising interest rates or mispricing of sale price and decreasing valuation, to name a few big ones. Or if you lose the job and your income decreases, the bank may demand you to cough up more capital for it to cover their risks.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04.01.2017, 13:00
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 14,621
Groaned at 183 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 10,557 Times in 6,014 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Quote:
View Post
The house was built in 2005, and it was explained that it's in a good condition. We asked about the clause to the notary and he gave us an example that we may find the fridge is out of order after a few months, or so.
After the advice that I receive from here, i think the notary gave us a bad example. Thanks for the advice for the option to change the notary. We will ask the notary to give us better explanation about the risks with the clause.
For the case, would you please give me the contact info of the notary who was working for your case?
I don't know if he can help as he's not in your area, but here are the details:

M. François Clerc
Etude CEB Notaires
avenue de Tivoli 3
1700 Fribourg
P.O. Box 263
1701 Fribourg

Phone: 026 322 12 12
Fax: 026 322 25 54
Website: www.notaire-egger.ch
Email: etude@cebnotaires.ch

He speaks reasonable English and we were happy with his service. We've been back to him a few times for various things, most recently sorting out our wills.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 04.01.2017, 15:37
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 4,292
Groaned at 508 Times in 315 Posts
Thanked 4,783 Times in 2,335 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Changing Notaries at such a late stage will probably not release you from any obligations to pay him !

Use the notary you got, make sure you understand the contract properly, if you don't get an independant lawyer to talk you through it.

Do NOT sign until you are happy and understand it as after the signature it's too late to change, your signature is binding....
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 04.01.2017, 18:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: What's it to you?
Posts: 2,680
Groaned at 98 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 3,270 Times in 1,326 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Actually if you are thinking if an inspection an architect will only do a cursory and rather superficial inspection pointing out building quality etc. if you want to know more about the structure you would need to get a Bauingenieur to take a look rather than an architect.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Snoopy for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 04.01.2017, 18:41
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 14,377
Groaned at 213 Times in 185 Posts
Thanked 11,731 Times in 6,607 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Quote:
View Post
Actually if you are thinking if an inspection an architect will only do a cursory and rather superficial inspection pointing out building quality etc. if you want to know more about the structure you would need to get a Bauingenieur to take a look rather than an architect.
Even then it's obvious things that can easily bee seen , floors don't get lifted, drains tested etc.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 04.01.2017, 18:47
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 19,270
Groaned at 983 Times in 768 Posts
Thanked 21,502 Times in 10,265 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Quote:
View Post
With the clause, how much and how long the current owner should take the responsibility?
0.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04.01.2017, 18:57
Mrs. Doolittle's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 5,522
Groaned at 149 Times in 107 Posts
Thanked 6,277 Times in 2,969 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

The house was built in 2005. That is not old. I would look into who the architect was and the builder. You should be able to get this information and try and contact these people. They may be happy to visit the house with you.

Theoretically the electrical inspection should have been done in 2015. This is due every 10 years and every 5 years if the house changes hands.

In Switzerland it is very much a "buyer beware" situation. Those of us who have purchased and sold properties have learned from experience.

Despite the age of a house, it does need to have been cared for over the years. If the area where the house is located has, for example, very hard water and no water softener, you could find damage from the hard water.

What type of heating system does the house have?
__________________

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mrs. Doolittle for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 04.01.2017, 19:38
neddy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,424
Groaned at 22 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,846 Times in 781 Posts
neddy has a reputation beyond reputeneddy has a reputation beyond reputeneddy has a reputation beyond reputeneddy has a reputation beyond reputeneddy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Wise words from Mrs Doolittle. We're on the receiving end of a property that has had the bare minimum spent & are now fighting all the "issues". 1st thing we did was install a water softener. Unfortunately the pipes are all old & rusted.
There are no guarantees that things won't break 5 minutes after you move in whatever the clause. But I can tell you that a steam cleaner works wonders on a toilet bowl that has had years of deposits. Just put your goggles on when going in.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank neddy for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 05.01.2017, 01:54
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bonstetten
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
gobugi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Mrs. Doolittle, thanks for the valuable comments.
The heating system is Erdsonde Warmepumpe.
I didn't think about the damage from the hard water. I will check the part.
At the moment, we contacted one Architect/Bauleiter in the town. I will also check the builder of the house as well. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gobugi for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 05.01.2017, 08:49
Mrs. Doolittle's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 5,522
Groaned at 149 Times in 107 Posts
Thanked 6,277 Times in 2,969 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

Quote:
View Post
Mrs. Doolittle, thanks for the valuable comments.
The heating system is Erdsonde Warmepumpe.
I didn't think about the damage from the hard water. I will check the part.
At the moment, we contacted one Architect/Bauleiter in the town. I will also check the builder of the house as well. Thanks!
I think, but I am not 100% certain, that Ersonde heating requires a kantonal permit renewable every 10 years. We have this with our Grundwasserwarmpumpe. This document wouid be important to have on hand.

The measurement for the water hardness is available from the Gemeinde where the house is located. This measurement is usually published on line.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05.01.2017, 11:00
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 6,619
Groaned at 306 Times in 203 Posts
Thanked 8,284 Times in 2,959 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pls help me on this part on our house contract

It is likely that after 12 years you will now be running into a period of repairs and replacements: washing machine, dryer, dishwasher, water softener, paintwork inside and out etc.

Many of these will come up over the next 5 to 10 years and I guess the sellers want to avoid any comeback.

Heat pumps are excellent (we have an air one) and will run for years with little or no maintenance and there is no gas or oil tank to be checked.

What you don't get in Switzerland is the equivalent of the British 'searches'. Thus if there are proposals to widen a road, build an autobahn nearby you will only learn of these by googling...
__________________


************************************
Fed up of smoking? 10 tips to quit in 10 days
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
tentative assault to our house ? rule on surveillance cameras Helena Paris Complaints corner 13 11.10.2016 16:23
Question on work contract for part time swiss2love Employment 4 20.06.2014 22:09
Non EU wife entering on Schengen visa refused permit by Bern commune. Help needed pls sholay Permits/visas/government 73 25.11.2013 13:43
Pls help me translate this The Pope Language corner 20 03.06.2012 20:43
Advice on Renting our House in NJ ejp469 Housing in general 3 16.07.2009 20:43


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0