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-   -   Notice Period Question (https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-general/265864-notice-period-question.html)

Dack Rambo 01.02.2017 15:34

Notice Period Question
 
For the past 4 years I have been renting a room in a house in Zug. The period of notice on my rental contract is three months. I have now (in January) handed in my notice as I will be moving at the end of February. However, my landlady does not want to take in any other tenant for March or April as she will be renting the entire house to friends of hers from June. My question is: Do I have the right to sublet my room for the months of March and April? (or is there any other way I can get out of paying for these months?).

roegner 01.02.2017 15:36

Re: Notice Period Question
 
IŽd say yes, she does expect you to pay those months? Then why not?

Dack Rambo 01.02.2017 15:49

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Yes, but my question is: Am I entitled to sublet the room for those two months?

aSwissInTheUS 01.02.2017 15:53

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Simpler. Get it in writing that she does not want a replacement tenant.
Then you are off the hook for March and April and no need for subletting.

Dack Rambo 01.02.2017 15:55

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 2733902)
Simpler. Get it in writing that she does not want a replacement tenant.
Then you are off the hook for March and April and no need for subletting.

Yes, that would be ideal. Seriously, that's all I need?

Guest 01.02.2017 16:08

Re: Notice Period Question
 
No, she will make you pay those 2 months. Does it say on your contract about sub-letting (or not allowed)?

Dack Rambo 01.02.2017 16:11

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by neddy (Post 2733918)
No, she will make you pay those 2 months. Does it say on your contract about sub-letting (or not allowed)?

Subletting is not mentioned on the rental contract. However she has told me that she does not want to rent the room to anyone else for those 2 months. According to ASwissInTheUS, this means that I am not obliged to pay her for that time.

aSwissInTheUS 01.02.2017 16:33

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by neddy (Post 2733918)
No, she will make you pay those 2 months. Does it say on your contract about sub-letting (or not allowed)?

By law a contract cannot forbid subletting. But you must ask for permission which can only be denied under certain specific conditions.

@Dack Rambo
You have to be a bit sneaky and careful with the wording of your request.
One option is to write by mail (paper trail is important) to her as short as possible if it is possible to suggest a Nachmieter which would take over the flat from March 1st. Just plain and simple. Then wait for her reply. If your landlayd is clue less she will deny the request, important you need it in writing, then you finally pull the joker.

Urs Max 01.02.2017 16:38

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Yes you can sublet against the landlord's will.
See for instance this article by the Beobachter (in German).

A contract clause that forbids subletting is illegal and void (not the case here, just a general remark).

Although you need permission to sublet, this can only be denied for three reasons:
- your refusal to disclose the sublet conditions
- abusive or undue sublet conditions, in particular if you make an excessive profit (more than 10% of the rent I believe)
- if the landlord would suffer undue disadvantages (for instant different use, say to train using a loud musical instrument)

Absent any of these three she has no say.
The worst that can happen is seeing the contract cancelled :)

So go ahead and sublet. Or be let off the hook two months early (I wouldn't compromise on less).

Dack Rambo 01.02.2017 16:46

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 2733952)
Yes you can sublet against the landlord's will.
See for instance this article by the Beobachter (in German).

A contract clause that forbids subletting is illegal and void (not the case here, just a general remark).

Although you need permission to sublet, this can only be denied for three reasons:
- your refusal to disclose the sublet conditions
- abusive or undue sublet conditions, in particular if you make an excessive profit (more than 10% of the rent I believe)
- if the landlord would suffer undue disadvantages (for instant different use, say to train using a loud musical instrument)

Absent any of these three she has no say.
The worst that can happen is seeing the contract cancelled :)

So go ahead and sublet. Or be let off the hook two months early (I wouldn't compromise on less).

Thanks. However I am actually renting a room in a house (with use of kitchen and sitting room), not the entire house. Is the law the same in this case?

Urs Max 01.02.2017 17:30

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 2733958)
Thanks. However I am actually renting a room in a house (with use of kitchen and sitting room), not the entire house. Is the law the same in this case?

I don't see why it should be different.

What might be an issue is if the landlady has fair objections based on the third reason to object. If for instane she has required a Strafregisterauszug from you, which of course was empty, while the subrenter's has entries she'd probably have valid reason to object to that individual. But a simple "I don't like your nose" won't do.

Given that she's also living in the house she probably has valid reason to demand the same documents you had to provide even though she's not party to the sublet contract.

Dack Rambo 01.02.2017 20:10

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 2734011)
I don't see why it should be different.

What might be an issue is if the landlady has fair objections based on the third reason to object. If for instane she has required a Strafregisterauszug from you, which of course was empty, while the subrenter's has entries she'd probably have valid reason to object to that individual. But a simple "I don't like your nose" won't do.

Given that she's also living in the house she probably has valid reason to demand the same documents you had to provide even though she's not party to the sublet contract.

Thanks. She actually wants to rent the house to friends of hers from June and doesn't want anyone else in the house after I leave as she herself is rarely there these days.

Guest 01.02.2017 20:42

Re: Notice Period Question
 
So you got the job in Geneva then? :cheers2:

Dack Rambo 01.02.2017 20:47

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by neddy (Post 2734110)
So you got the job in Geneva then? :cheers2:

Yes I did!

Urs Max 02.02.2017 09:06

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 2734102)
Thanks. She actually wants to rent the house to friends of hers from June and doesn't want anyone else in the house after I leave as she herself is rarely there these days.

Understandable that she's picky especially when not around often. But generally speaking that's her problem not yours, leverage for you to be let off the hook early.

aSwissInTheUS 02.02.2017 10:12

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 2734102)
Thanks. She actually wants to rent the house to friends of hers from June and doesn't want anyone else in the house after I leave as she herself is rarely there these days.

As said get it writing that she does not want a replacement for March and April.
Once, but only once you have it in writing, use the clause of Code of obligations Art. 293 Abs. 3 Lit b. https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a293

"Against the rent owing to him the lessor must permit the following to be brought into account: any earnings which he has obtained, or intentionally failed to obtain, from putting the object to some other use"

Dack Rambo 02.02.2017 10:19

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 2734310)
As said get it writing that she does not want a replacement for March and April.
Once, but only once you have it in writing, use the clause of Code of obligations Art. 293 Abs. 3 Lit b. https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a293

"Against the rent owing to him the lessor must permit the following to be brought into account: any earnings which he has obtained, or intentionally failed to obtain, from putting the object to some other use"

That is very good to know. Thanks a lot for your help.

Anjela 02.02.2017 10:47

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by neddy (Post 2734110)
So you got the job in Geneva then? :cheers2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 2734113)
Yes I did!

Congratulations..... and Welcome to the Dark Side!

Dack Rambo 06.02.2017 19:25

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 2734310)
As said get it writing that she does not want a replacement for March and April.
Once, but only once you have it in writing, use the clause of Code of obligations Art. 293 Abs. 3 Lit b. https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a293

"Against the rent owing to him the lessor must permit the following to be brought into account: any earnings which he has obtained, or intentionally failed to obtain, from putting the object to some other use"

Just to be on the safe side, I contacted the Mieterverband Zug and they have confirmed your advice. I have written to my landlady quoting the above article.

aSwissInTheUS 06.02.2017 19:49

Re: Notice Period Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 2736666)
Just to be on the safe side, I contacted the Mieterverband Zug and they have confirmed your advice. I have written to my landlady quoting the above article.

That was not my advice. :eek:
My advice was to ask the landlady if she accepts a replacement tenant, and get a written answer. Only once you have the No answer on a pice of paper you pull Art. 293 out of your sleeve. I said be sneacky and keep Art. 293 as a Joker.

Now you presented all your cards and your strategy. If she has just two brain cells left she will certainly accept a replacement for the remaining two months.
Now it will be your problem to find a suitable and solvent one which is willing to take the flat for just two months.

If you are lucky she has just one brain cell left and she will accpet your request.


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