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  #21  
Old 19.03.2017, 17:23
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Re: Ölheizung upgrade? [heating with oil]

Agreed, for kitchens - and very different too from the kind of tank you would need to heat a VERY large single house.
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Old 19.03.2017, 17:27
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Re: Ölheizung upgrade? [heating with oil]

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Agreed, for kitchens - and very different too from the kind of tank you would need to heat a VERY large single house.
It's really not, from memory Shell made the gas delivery. I thought your house was very well insulated with 30 cm walls so it won't need that much gas
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Old 19.03.2017, 17:32
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Re: Ölheizung upgrade? [heating with oil]

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A lot of restaurants have this system, you may not have seen it, but most chef's worth their salt will only cook with gas !

Simply not true anymore. Many top chefs cook with induction.

It's as controllable and instantaneous as gas but without the extra, wasted heat of gas.

Such as here
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Old 19.03.2017, 21:18
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Re: Ölheizung upgrade? [heating with oil]

I believe 99.99% of restaurants still use gas.... so the previous statement I would say is still true
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Old 19.03.2017, 22:13
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Re: Ölheizung upgrade? [heating with oil]

Quote:
large bottles with very high pressure (meaning larger volume of gas)
Pressure will be identical (at best), NOT higher.

If anything, larger tanks will have lower pressure.

Tom
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  #26  
Old 10.11.2021, 22:35
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Re: Ölheizung upgrade? [heating with oil]

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Our late 80s house has oil heating (underfloor).

At current prices, oil is one of the more cost effective options. We use ca. 1000 liters per year for a 4 story small foot print 220m2 house. Small footprint, multiple stories is key - same m2 in a more spread out house would likely use a lot more oil. And, we use the heat sparingly - I like a cool house, ca 15-18 degrees, couldn't live in the 'Swiss norm' (according to the heating specialist) of 24 degrees.

Some years ago, worried about the many economic, environmental, and social issues around oil, and facing a canton-mandated furnace replacement, I looked into replacing the oil system with the other 'greener' options out there.

The cost of retrofitting a different system into our house was eye-watering. We had quotes over mid-5 figures, and we have learned that any renovation here will likely end up significantly more expensive than the original estimate. The expected energy efficiency improvement from a 'greener' system would not even come close to paying off the investment in our lifetime.

And the ultimate reason why change from oil was not feasible: Due to the Gestaltungsplan governing use of our property and the layout of our Quartier, installation of other kinds of systems (warmpumpe, solar collectors, for instance) would not be allowed - or at best would require a lot of negotiation and horse trading with neighbors. Again, a very costly effort, one unlikely to be successful. There are no gas lines in the neighborhood.

So we stayed with oil and installed a new furnace. It really was the only cost-effective option.

The new furnace burns slightly more oil than the old one (so much for improved energy efficiency) because we are unable to set it as low as we would wish, nor do we have the level of control over the timing that we did with the old mechanical unit. (Insert much repeated rant about overly complicated factory-set computerized non-improvements...) It took much wrangling to get the technician to set the damned thing as low as we have it, simply because anything outside of 'normal' made his head explode. Or would have made the furnace explode, possibly both.

Lastly - be aware that taking out an oil tank might require involvement of the hazmat guys, and alternative use of that space might be prohibited or require some kind of certification or permission. YMMV, but speak to the building department at your Gemeinde before you go too far down that road.



tl;dr: Changing heating systems in an older house is often not for the faint of heart nor shallow of pocket.

Do you know how much diesel the previous owner used to heat the house at 24c ? I am amazed you're only burning 1000 litres. I planning to do the same as you and run mine at 18c. I curious what the difference was.



I just bought a house with 220m2 spread out over 2 floors with the lower floor buried deep into a cold hill. The previous owner upgraded the boiler to a super 90% efficient Buderus Lagano GB125 with 18kw and including a new 160 litre water tank. I checked the costs it was 14,000 fr for everything before covid happened. But then he moved out. So he dosen't have usage data for the new boiler.



He has the log book for the last 40 years of diesel purchases. The old boiler was from 1970. It lasted 47 years. And he told me there was nothing wrong with it, 2 cleaning services spring and autumn and it was still running great. But to help sell the house he installed a brand new one.



The consumption of that old 1970 diesel boiler was like a gas guzzling truck ! The tank in the garden is 6000 litres. The log book shows in most years him buying 5200 to 5700 litres and in two years he actually ran out !



Twice he managed to polish off 6000 litres in one year. Now that's a huge amount of diesel oil. The old man said his wife was a smoker so they had the window open all winter, plus they had a dog so the garage door was always open. They had the heating set to 22c all the time. This was with zero insulation and old 1970s wooden windows. They are double glazed but its primitive tech.



In the summer when we got the house I installed 80mm thick insulation in the roof then lament flooring on top to walk on it. Im gonna test it out this winter and maybe insulate the outside walls next year if the humidity is not too dry, im trying to keep the house above 45% mositure for healthy lungs. We got the house with 3800 litres left in the tank. I am a bit worried if the old man actually polished off 6000 liters and emptied the tank, will 3800 last until next spring.



I'm like you, I prefer a cooler house. I have been testing it and 18c is fine for me with a set back to 15c for overnight. And during the daytime. 18c is just from 5am to 8am and from 4pm to 11pm Monday to Friday. Weekends its 18c all day 6am to midnight. I plan to use a log fire if needed during the day time.



So we now have better insulation, a 90% efficient diesel boiler and im only heating the house to 18c. I'll also put IOT controllers on the 3 big rads upstairs set to shut of these 3 radiators at 19c if the sun is shining or if the oven is on, in the open plan living room kitchen dinner. Thats also where the fireplace is and my home office is adjacent. We have a fair amount of devices giving off heat, 4 computers 2 printers 2 fridges a cooker a big oven and a TV. The area is about 87 m2.


When we bought the house it had 10.5 kw of rads, but we plumbed in an extra one in the Garage because its freezing and I upgraded the open plan living room a bit because it was cold last winter when I viewed the house.



In our road my new neighbor explained they bulk buy over 50,000 litres for the whole street. So they normally get a 8 to 10 raps discount for the bulk order. He will give me a shout in the summer. Last spring he got a price of 72 rapens per litre or 6.5 rapen per KW. Now its over 1fr per litre.



By comparison


EZK is 18 raps per KW (Electricity)
13 raps per KW overnight / weekends



Diesel 6.5 raps per KW (11kw per litre) if 72 raps per litre



Firewood 2 raps per KW (Dirt Cheap !!!!)



I found a local tree surgeon gardener selling 1.5m2 of firewood for 110fr Weight is about 1100 kg. So 1 kg of firewood costs 10 rapen. If there are 5kw in 1kg of wood for just 10p that's an amazingly dirt cheap 2p per kw. And no tax on recycled wood.


If there was a way to use my fireplace to heat up some radiators downstairs that would be perfect.
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  #27  
Old 11.11.2021, 13:00
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Re: Ölheizung upgrade? [heating with oil]

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Do you know how much diesel the previous owner used to heat the house at 24c ? I am amazed you're only burning 1000 litres. I planning to do the same as you and run mine at 18c. I curious what the difference was.
No idea what the previous owner used, but neighbors - our houses are all similar - use two to three times what we do. However from visiting it feels like they heat their houses 'Swiss sauna', and run the heat for most of the year.

For the life of me I can't understand how anyone could live in rooms that hot, but it seems to be the norm here. As in my post from a few years ago, so much of the energy saving measures seem to assume a preference for more heat, and from my foray into 'minergy' approaches, something along those lines would actually have forced us to live in temps far warmer than is comfortable for me, and end up with a net increase in consumption.

We save more money, and use less energy, simply by keeping the thermostat turned down.

IMO 15 to max 18 degrees is plenty warm, there is a reason sweaters were invented.

We keep the house at 15 degrees daytime, cooler at night, run the heat only when it gets quite cold. As an example, we have not yet turned on the heat, despite the cool temps.

Having the small footprint over four floors helps significantly. We do not heat the top floor at all. Plenty of heat rises, and that floor is bedrooms anyway. I prefer to sleep in a cool room.

We have a heat-exchange fireplace, something common in 80s builds. When there is a fire going there is no need for other heat in that room, it gets quite toasty. However we use it sparingly, as there are environmental concerns.

We are looking into adding solar, but are still dealing with the Quartier Gestaltungsplan. If I understand current regs correctly they can't actually forbid solar - but our Quartier is rather 'special' and I'm not sure I'm up for the fight it would take to get neighbors' approval. I'd rather be the second house to install solar.

There is also the issue that we are not likely to end our days here, so have a rather short investment horizon. We'll do whatever is sensible with an eye to selling within five years, but leave the rest to the next owner.
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