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Old 27.04.2017, 11:52
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Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

Hey everybody,


I am in dire need of legal counsel in regard to a housing situation.


My girlfriend has been sub renting an apartment in Seefeld for more than a year now.

Up to a week ago no issues whatsoever with the main leaser, the landlord nor the neighbors.


Last week somebody representing the landlord (whom she never met or talked to) told her that there has been an issue with the original tenant and that the lease would be terminated. No offer was made to transfer the lease to her. Today the representative called back and told her that she needs to vacate the premises by next Tuesday. As everybody knows on this forum, it is impossible to find an apartment and move on such short notice in Zurich.

Therefore I am wondering if there is anyway to legally contest the termination or at the very least obtain a longer notification period. Any advice are welcome.

I am considering hiring a lawyer to look into the situation. If any of you knows one that is specialized in this type of situation, please feel free to share the contact with me.


Sebastien
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Old 27.04.2017, 12:02
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

Was the sub-lease authorised by the landlord...

If the answer is yes, then you have a case, however if the answer was no, it will be considerably difficult to succesfully contest.

Take her in with you, she's your girlfriend....
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Old 27.04.2017, 13:04
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

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Was the sub-lease authorised by the landlord...

If the answer is yes, then you have a case, however if the answer was no, it will be considerably difficult to succesfully contest.

Take her in with you, she's your girlfriend....
Thanks for the tips. I think the landlord authorized the sub lease. We are looking into it now.

Unfortunately I am currently working and living in Hamburg, therefore taking her in isn't really an option.

I still think hiring a lawyer is essential at this point since the notice is so short. If you have any to recommend I'm open to suggestions.
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Old 27.04.2017, 13:11
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/organisati...sbehoerde.html

Mietgericht und Schlichtungsbehörde

Wengistr. 30, 8004 Zürich
Postadresse:
Postfach, 8036 Zürich

Tram 2 oder 3 oder Bus 32
bis Haltestelle Kalkbreite
Keine Parkplätze

Kanzlei Mietgericht:
Telefon 044 248 21 73

Kanzlei Schlichtungsbehörde:
Telefon 044 248 22 73

Öffnungszeiten:
8.00 bis 11.45 Uhr und
13.30 bis 16.45 Uhr

__________________________________________________ _

Rechtsauskunft

http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/organisati...sauskunft.html

Rechtsauskunft in Mietsachen
Zeiten:
Montag und Mittwoch,

je 08.30 Uhr bis 11.00 Uhr und 14.00 bis 17.00 Uhr

(ohne Voranmeldung; es ist mit längeren Wartezeiten zu rechnen)
Ort:
Bezirksgericht Zürich, Schlichtungsbehörde, Wengistrasse 30, Parterre

(keine telefonischen Auskünfte)
Für wen?
Für Personen, die im Bezirk, d.h. in der Stadt Zürich eine Immobilie gemietet oder vermietet haben.

Nur wenn Sie persönlich erscheinen.

Nur in deutscher Sprache; bitte lassen Sie sich bei mangelnden Sprachkenntnissen durch eine Deutsch sprechende Person begleiten.

Nur solange bei Schlichtungsbehörde und Mietgericht kein Verfahren hängig ist.

Nicht für Personen, die bereits anwaltlich vertreten sind.
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Old 27.04.2017, 13:15
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

Tricky situation.

There are two main contractual relationships.
First, the one between owner and original tenant
Second, the one between original tenant and sub-tenant.

There is normally no contractual relationship and obligations of any kind between owner and sub-tenant.

Also the law says the a sub-tenant agreement cannot be extended beyond the original rental agreement Art. 273b Code of Obligation https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...dex.html#a273b

Good question if the sub-tenant can request an extension of the main agreement at the renters court http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/organisati...sbehoerde.html.

Your friend should become ASAP a member of the Mieterverband https://www.mieterverband.ch/ (Not to be confused with "Mieterschutz" which is most of the times a commercial operation with doubt able reputation.)

The best what the sub-tenant has is a recourse against the original tenant. But, if the original tenant is bankrupt, non-reachable etc. then this will be hard
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Old 27.04.2017, 13:42
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

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Good question if the sub-tenant can request an extension of the main agreement at the renters court http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/organisati...sbehoerde.html.


Unfortunately, as a subtenant you cannot request an extension as there'se no contractual relationship between the landlord/owner and the sub-tenant (https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...termieter.html).


What I don't understand is that your girlfriend is supposed to vacate the flat by next Tuesday. The notice period normally is three month. So it seems that either the landlord/owner didn't respect the notice period or the main tenant informed your girlfriend way too late about the termination of the main lease.
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Old 27.04.2017, 13:52
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

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Unfortunately, as a subtenant you cannot request an extension as there'se no contractual relationship between the landlord/owner and the sub-tenant (https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...termieter.html).


What I don't understand is that your girlfriend is supposed to vacate the flat by next Tuesday. The notice period normally is three month. So it seems that either the landlord/owner didn't respect the notice period or the main tenant informed your girlfriend way too late about the termination of the main lease.
Thanks to everybody for the replies.

From what I understand the owner has been trying to get in touch unsuccessfully with the main tenant for a while. Therefore, the notice period seems to have expired. The main tenant is now unreachable and the owner representative gave this short notice directly to my girlfriend.

The owner legal claim is most likely valid and fighting it is unrealistic, but a three days warning is beyond anything I've ever seen. A month notice is in my opinion the minimum anybody is entitled to have from the moment they are made aware.
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Old 27.04.2017, 13:54
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

I understand that all cancelation of a rental contract by the owner, must be made on an approved form, and if the sub tenancy is legal, the sub tenants should also receive the official completed form, usually by registered post.

I think the quickest answer is to visit one of the two addresses I posted, and ask there. Take all the rental agreements and letters with her. Without the official cancellation with the correct notification, she can't be thrown out.
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Old 27.04.2017, 14:06
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

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What I don't understand is that your girlfriend is supposed to vacate the flat by next Tuesday. The notice period normally is three month. So it seems that either the landlord/owner didn't respect the notice period or the main tenant informed your girlfriend way too late about the termination of the main lease.
Non payment of the lease is reason for immediate eviction. If main tenant never objected the termination (and landlord used the correct procedure and forms) or objected but still did not pay in good time then it becomes legal.
See Art. 257d https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...dex.html#a257d
and also search for 257d as it is referenced many times as an exemption to standard procedure.
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Old 27.04.2017, 14:11
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

Has she asked if it's possible for her to just take over the tenancy directly with the landlord ?
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Old 27.04.2017, 14:15
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

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I understand that all cancelation of a rental contract by the owner, must be made on an approved form, and if the sub tenancy is legal, the sub tenants should also receive the official completed form, usually by registered post.
No such requirement in laws

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Non payment of the lease is reason for immediate eviction.
Eviction is never immediate. Forceful eviction will take weeks. It must be ordered by a judge and carried out by the police. Anything less is unlawful.

So if she can't find a replacement apartment immediately, eviction process will buy her some time. But she should search asap, outlook is not so good, unless she would negotiate her way out of this mess with the landlord.
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Old 27.04.2017, 14:26
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

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Eviction is never immediate. Forceful eviction will take weeks. It must be ordered by a judge and carried out by the police. Anything less is unlawful.
I take all the eviction and throw in a few terminations

Sorry, but it is evident that my account got hacked and taken over by some incompetent third party. This you may have easily realized on your own based on "my" sloppy posts over the last few days. Or that I am just became old and sloppy..
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Old 27.04.2017, 14:28
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

on the' up' side it is this time of year when the most people are moving, so she could be lucky if she really does the work to find somewhere new...

www.homegate.ch
www.immoscout24.ch

Ronorp is also good (people advertise on there who don't advertise on hometate)... especially if she's looking in the German language (not so much advertised in English)...

https://www.ronorp.net/
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Old 27.04.2017, 14:41
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

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Thanks to everybody for the replies.

From what I understand the owner has been trying to get in touch unsuccessfully with the main tenant for a while. Therefore, the notice period seems to have expired. The main tenant is now unreachable and the owner representative gave this short notice directly to my girlfriend.

The owner legal claim is most likely valid and fighting it is unrealistic, but a three days warning is beyond anything I've ever seen. A month notice is in my opinion the minimum anybody is entitled to have from the moment they are made aware.


Your girlfriend should try to find a solution with the main owner. He can't throw her out of the flat himself. He has to go to court asking for her eviction which would take a lot of time. So he should be interested in finding some kind of arrangement.


Your girlfriend should also be able to claim all the extra costs from the main tenant for not terminating the sublease in the proper manner.
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Old 27.04.2017, 15:17
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

http://www.beobachter.ch/wohnen/miet...rrekt/#c325144

http://www.beobachter.ch/wohnen/miet...g-verlaengern/
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Old 28.04.2017, 10:25
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Re: Legal counsel needed. Sub tennant rights

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I understand that all cancelation of a rental contract by the owner, must be made on an approved form, and if the sub tenancy is legal, the sub tenants should also receive the official completed form, usually by registered post.
The landlord has no contractual relationship so no, no notice required.

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I think the quickest answer is to visit one of the two addresses I posted, and ask there. Take all the rental agreements and letters with her. Without the official cancellation with the correct notification, she can't be thrown out.
That.

OP, contact the Schlichtungsbehörde immediately (or have your gf do so) and request an extension. It would be helpful to call beforehand to demonstrate the urgency of your case as the situation would cause a hardship ("Härte"). This is likely to buy time despite the lack of contract between landlord and gf.

Simultaneously contact the landlord directly and explain the situation, see if you can negotiate for an extension. His main issue may be lack of rent paid so personally, I'd consider suggesting to pay in advance (it would also be a good idea to mention this to the Schlichtungsbehörde).
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