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Old 28.04.2017, 02:16
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Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

Heya, any recommendations any good smaller Swiss towns where apartment prices are really good?
But are either in the Alps, or on a lake (somewhere pretty)?
Remote is fine! So long as there's a train station and a Migros, that's all I really need.
In the vein of places like Chur, Locarno, Brig, Interlaken etc - but maybe even cheaper.

Maybe in a low growth Canton (that won't mind so much about people moving there).

Have heard that the cantons of Uri, Glarus, Appenzell Innerrhoden, Obwalden, and Thurgau are affordable to move to.

Any advice or direction would be a huge help!
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Old 28.04.2017, 05:40
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

You just want to live there, retire there? Or do you also want to work somewhere?
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Old 28.04.2017, 06:24
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

hey - thanks for your reply!

Not a retiree, and wouldn't need to find work (I'm lucky enough to have the kind of job I can do from anywhere).

If I made a permanent move (somewhat of a dream of mine), wondered if there are any attractive affordable towns in great places that would be "more me" than the usual cities.
Or similarly, if there are Cantons that make it easier for foreigners to move there.
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Old 28.04.2017, 07:58
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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Old 28.04.2017, 08:25
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

Well, it depends if any canton thinks your "business plan" will create jobs and benefit Switzerland. With German and New Zealand nationalities moving here isn't too much of a problem, but the Swiss authorities need to be convinced your business will benefit the country and provide an adequate income for you to support yourself with.

https://www.ch.ch/en/becoming-self-employed/

https://www.kmu.admin.ch/kmu/en/home...efta-area.html

You say you're fine with remote locations then go on to talk about fairly major places that certainly aren't cheap. Nor would being up in the Alps or by the lakeside, these are usually premium locations and cost a fortune.

It also depends on what you call cheap. A quick search on the internet for a place down in Murten not far from here and on Lake Murten comes up with a couple of 2.5 room places (living/dining and bedroom - kitchen/bath not included in room counts here), one at 1,350 a month, the other at 1,530. Do you consider that cheap or expensive?
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Old 28.04.2017, 08:43
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

Rorschach is next to a lake (Bodensee) and the properties prices are dirt cheap (for Swiss levels) there .. Hardly a surprise if you look at their population numbers.. used to be 15k+, now its below 10k..
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Old 28.04.2017, 09:19
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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Rorschach is next to a lake (Bodensee) and the properties prices are dirt cheap (for Swiss levels) there .. Hardly a surprise if you look at their population numbers.. used to be 15k+, now its below 10k..


It's a tax hell.
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Old 28.04.2017, 11:08
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

It depends on your income and private wealth. There are plenty of areas where property is very reasonable- but usually where taxes are high. You really need to find somewhere where the balance is right- and that is not easy.

Which of the 3 (4) Swiss languages do you speak or have at least some notion of. The Valais may be of interest- areas like Hérémence, on the edge of the 4 Valleys/Verbier ski area.

My area, the Neuchâtel Jura, or the Vaud Jura or the Jura Jura - all have fabulous scenery, close to France, close to mountains and lakes - and really good value property, but taxes are high.

There are some fabulous large old farmhouses, in really good condition, all renovated, around here- for 600 to 1mio.
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Old 28.04.2017, 11:29
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

You probably noticed that villages with low taxes usually have the highest property prices...

You would need to look at taxation at the village level, as the tax amounts are approximately,
Federal Tax 10 % of your taxable income
Canton Tax 45 % of your taxable income
Village Tax 45 % of your taxable income

Looking at only the Cantonal tax rates is comparable, but not the complete story...

http://www.linker.ch/eigenlink/steuervergleich.htm

http://www.estv2.admin.ch/steuerfuss/my_select_alle.php
.
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Last edited by Sbrinz; 28.04.2017 at 11:41.
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Old 28.04.2017, 11:51
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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You probably noticed that villages with low taxes usually have the highest property prices...

You would need to look at taxation at the village level, as the tax amounts are approximately,
Federal Tax 10 % of your taxable income
Canton Tax 45 % of your taxable income
Village Tax 45 % of your taxable income

Looking at only the Cantonal tax rates is comparable, but not the complete story...

http://www.linker.ch/eigenlink/steuervergleich.htm
How do you derive those percentages? The federal tax is the same at a given income level nationally. The amount that is levied by the canton swings wildly between e.g. GE/VD and ZG/SZ and even within the the Gemeinden of the cantons e.g. Wollerau SZ and Einsiedeln SZ. The difference in tax on taxable income (single, no children) on the EF poverty wage is 53%!

Using Comparis and taxable income of CHF 90k - roughly equal to gross income of CHF 120k, I get the following results %s for Wollerau, Neuchatel (chosen as a high tax location) and Murten (your location):

Wollerau
Federal 2,980 31%
Canton 4,254 45%
Village 2,259 24%
Total 9,493 100%

Neuchatel
Federal 2,980 12%
Canton 13,590 57%
Village 7,403 31%
Total 23,973 100%

Murten
Federal 2,980 17%
Canton 8,984 51%
Village 5,570 32%
Total 17,533 100%
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Old 28.04.2017, 11:57
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

The word approximately was in BOLD, I hoped you might notice that.

My figures of 10/45/45 was to explain to a member from NZ that it is important to consider the village taxes, and not just the Canton. The taxation detail is in the links I provided.
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:00
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

You think Neuchatel is a high tax location? Our commune rate is 88% of Friboug canton's rate! OP you really do need to check this far down if you do decide to move here.
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:10
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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The word approximately was in BOLD, I hoped you might notice that.

My figures of 10/45/45 was to explain to a member from NZ that it is important to consider the village taxes, and not just the Canton.The taxation detail is in the links I provided.
In none of the examples I've given are your splits even close to being approximate.

As usual you were spouting your own ill informed opinion as fact.

If you were intending the part of your quote I've bold italicised, why add numbers you've clearly made up?
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:12
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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You think Neuchatel is a high tax location? Our commune rate is 88% of Friboug canton's rate! OP you really do need to check this far down if you do decide to move here.
Neuchâtel is a high tax canton. If you go to any of the tax comparison sites it consistently comes up as the highest taxed canton in Switzerland.
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:14
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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You think Neuchatel is a high tax location? Our commune rate is 88% of Friboug canton's rate! OP you really do need to check this far down if you do decide to move here.
It is indeed high, but not as high as Neuchatel (for that level of income and circumstances). It totals 20,767 compared to 23,973 in Neuchatel
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:16
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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You would need to look at taxation at the village level, as the tax amounts are approximately,
Federal Tax 10 % of your taxable income
Canton Tax 45 % of your taxable income
Village Tax 45 % of your taxable income

.
Er, that makes 100% tax
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:25
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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Neuchâtel is a high tax canton. If you go to any of the tax comparison sites it consistently comes up as the highest taxed canton in Switzerland.
Yes- but ... you have to take everything into account and your own personal circumstances too. The Jura mountains, in Vaud, Neuchâtel, Bern and Jura - all have incredible views and countryside- and very cheap housing, be it to buy or to rent- much much lower than near Lausanne, the lakes, Neuchâtel, etc.
If you can buy a fabulous house for less than 1 mio- or an amazing master's house for about 2- then, depending on circumstances, fortune, etc- it can be great value. Commuting to Neuch from here is about 50 mins, no real rush hour traffic. To Lausanne less than 1 hour- but as long as you can organise you day to leave later and return later- to avoid horrendous frontalier traffic. From some of the villages down the valley, just 30 mins commute to Neuch- with great train service too. And with France so close for shopping and other services (dentist, vets- etc)- and fast access to Paris and onwards with TGV (3hr) and on to London in a day.

And a great feeling of being 'almost' in France, for culture, shops, restaurants, etc, Burgundy vineyards and romanesque Churches, lakes, etc. It takes us 1h15 mins to go to GVA airport- as long as we avoid rush hour.

If someone is going to work remotely and not have to commute- then it could be perfect- just depends. Swings and roundabouts...
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:30
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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Yes- but ... you have to take everything into account and your own personal circumstances too. The Jura mountains, in Vaud, Neuchâtel, Bern and Jura - all have incredible views and countryside- and very cheap housing, be it to buy or to rent- much much lower than near Lausanne, the lakes, Neuchâtel, etc.
If you can buy a fabulous house for less than 1 mio- or an amazing master's house for about 2- then, depending on circumstances, fortune, etc- it can be great value. Commuting to Neuch from here is about 50 mins, no real rush hour traffic. To Lausanne less than 1 hour- but as long as you can organise you day to leave later and return later- to avoid horrendous frontalier traffic. From some of the villages down the valley, just 30 mins commute to Neuch- with great train service too. And with France so close for shopping and other services (dentist, vets- etc)- and fast access to Paris and onwards with TGV.

And a great feeling of being 'almost' in France, for culture, shops, restaurants, etc. It takes us 1h15 mins to go to GVA airport- as long as we avoid rush hour.

If someone is going to work remotely and not have to commute- then it could be perfect- just depends. Swings and roundabouts...

I'm not disputing any of that. My comment was addressed at Medea who seemed to think that Neuchâtel is not a high tax canton.
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:39
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

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Er, that makes 100% tax
He is splitting the tax burden into it's component parts

i.e. in his example (with dubious numbers) federal tax is 10% of the total tax burden.
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:45
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Re: Affordable smaller Swiss towns to move to?

I don't know why I should answer such stupid posts.

1. I wrote approximate - it is an example for someone in NZ. No figures less than a 2'500 line Excel sheet can give the full picture.

2. I wrote taxable income - not 100% of personal income. Do you even understand how tax is calculated?
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