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  #41  
Old 14.06.2017, 19:50
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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But if he wants to rescue the deposit, he should probably rather cancel now with proper notice and just skip paying the last month or two so that the opposing claims between him and landlord would get cancelled out (verrechnet)
That's a possibility if Verrechung applies to rents, dunno, and if the regie were still running. It would to mortgages and your accounts with the bank, which is why (most) every Swiss mortgage contract explicitly excludes this.

Now that the company is bankrupt, I would think bankruptcy laws apply, which may well change the whole picture because, I believe, once bankruptcy has been declared the books are closed, so to say.

Plus, rent going forward is owed to the landlord, not the regie. So Verrechnung (having debt and credit cancel each other out) may not be possible to begin with.
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  #42  
Old 14.06.2017, 19:59
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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But if he wants to rescue the deposit, he should probably rather cancel now with proper notice and just skip paying the last month or two so that the opposing claims between him and landlord would get cancelled out (verrechnet)
At first sight the idea seems good, the conducting tricky though. As his deposit is already part of the bankruptcy assets s/he has no right to it anymore (well as a third class creditor = s/he has not right to it anymore ).
But paying the rent will stay an obligation.
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  #43  
Old 14.06.2017, 20:11
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

Yes you're probably right. Found this case which confirms this point of view. Expensive lesson!

Last edited by ivank; 14.06.2017 at 20:23.
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  #44  
Old 14.06.2017, 20:48
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

Thanks all for your insightful comments and tips.

You generally agree that the keys should not be handed over. I will keep the keys as long as I can. And I will stay as long as I can.

Since I am new in CH, I did not know that deposits should have put in a special bank account. This is an expensive lesson that I learned.

I think the notification that they've sent us is illegal. And that they cannot kick us out, block our entrance to the building by changing locks or adding locks.

You also agree that I can forget about the deposit. In my case, the deposit is 1 month rent + cleaning costs of CHF 300. Still a lot of money, since it is a business studio/apartment. It is technically not a furnished room, since there is a separate door to the studio, a kitchen and bathroom. So I would argue it can qualify as an apartment, with more than 2 weeks notice period.

I talked to some of my neighbors and they were just as surprised as me. I've collected email addresses to share information.

I do not know what they next step should be. I contacted one of the stakeholders/owners of the Company (happy to release the name if allowed) to ask for clarification, and did not got a reply yet.
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  #45  
Old 14.06.2017, 22:43
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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I think the notification that they've sent us is illegal. And that they cannot kick us out.
Don't bet on it.

Tom
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  #46  
Old 14.06.2017, 23:11
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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Thanks all for your insightful comments and tips.

I do not know what they next step should be.
Three more things come to mind that you could still do:

1. Go to the municipal offices of the town in which the company going bancrupt is registered. Ask there for advice. Ask to speak to someone who will explain to you who is in charge of the contracts with the tenants if the agent is going bancrups.

2. Go to see the Mieter- und Mieterinnenverband (MMV), which is the tenants' association. Legal advice is free for members, and you may have to pay a small fee to get help, but it might be worth it because this tenant's association has THE experts on rental.

Don't be misled to another, pretend organisation. This is the one you need https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...achleuten.html.

In both cases, take all your documents. Preferably go with a neighbour who can speak German (if you can't). Good idea to take along neighbours, anyway, to both offices. Bonus if one of the neighbours is already a member of the MMV.

3. If you are employed, go to speak to your HR or your boss; if you are a student, speak to your professor, especially if you have a good relationship there, and most especially if they helped find you this apartment. Here, too, have all the documentation ready, and ask if someone can advise you whom to approach. But you will probably have more help from such people if you can show that you have already done your own research as in 1. and 2. above.
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  #47  
Old 15.06.2017, 02:11
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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Good tip. I think you are right, the agency does not seem to be the owner of the building, but they have their logo and name printed on banners on the building.
Your rental contract might say who the owner is, if the agency is representing this person or company and managing the building on their behalf. You can also find out the name of the owner from the offices at the Gemeinde where you live.

I know of a situation where the property owner went bankrupt. There was no agency involved. The tenants were officially informed where to pay their rent. As the rental deposit was in a rental surety account, it was never part of the owner's assets. The tenants were able to get the deposit back.

As I posted earlier, you can contact the Mieterverband or, depending on the number of tenants affected, it might make sense to contact a lawyer who specializes in this field.
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  #48  
Old 18.06.2017, 13:03
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

The company is not yet listed in the latest bankruptcy listings: https://www.shab.ch

But as you can see from the dates, it may take up to two weeks from filing until publication.

The website of the housing company is still up and no hints about any insolvency are given.
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  #49  
Old 18.06.2017, 13:10
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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The company is not yet listed in the latest bankruptcy listings: https://www.shab.ch

But as you can see from the dates, it may take up to two weeks from filing until publication.

The website of the housing company is still up and no hints about any insolvency are given.
I don't think anybody would do that? After all, the company can still be bought/taken over.
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  #50  
Old 19.06.2017, 17:30
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

An update: today the owner of the building contacted me.

They want to start from scratch on 1 July, so it means that they want to sign new rental agreements with us. This means the contracts are not taken over. We are effectively losing any advance paid rents and deposits. If we do not sign new contracts with them and pay them again accordingly, they will kick us out per 1 July.

Can they do this?
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Old 19.06.2017, 17:49
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

They told you outright, in black and white that they will not accept the deposit and 1 month advance rent you have already paid?
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Old 19.06.2017, 17:57
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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They told you outright, in black and white that they will not accept the deposit and 1 month advance rent you have already paid?
They did not tell us anything. They are not reachable, and they are not responding to emails or phone calls. Total silence.
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Old 19.06.2017, 18:02
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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An update: today the owner of the building contacted me.
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They did not tell us anything. They are not reachable, and they are not responding to emails or phone calls. Total silence.
Which is it?

Tom
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Old 19.06.2017, 18:03
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

Only accept communication in writing.
Kick you in 2 weeks seems unreal, I'm no expert but think it's not true.
I heard there's minimal delays.

Follow what others said, get professional assistance quickly.
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Old 19.06.2017, 18:10
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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Which is it?

Tom
The owner is not the rental company.

The rental company is insolvent and apparently did not pay rents to the owner last month. The rental company is not responding. The owner of the building is basically trying to defuse the situation for the tenants by offering us new contracts, but we then have to pay per July 1, including the deposit again. Even if you already paid.
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Old 19.06.2017, 18:12
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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The owner is not the rental company.

The rental company is insolvent and apparently did not pay rents to the owner last month. The rental company is not responding. The owner of the building is basically trying to defuse the situation for the tenants by offering us new contracts, but we then have to pay per July 1, including the deposit again. Even if you already paid.
OK, the problem is that the rental company didn't pay them, and so you have to deal with the rental company for that, and you have to deal with the owner if you want to stay there, pretty simple unfortunately.

Tom
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Old 19.06.2017, 18:12
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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An update: today the owner of the building contacted me.

They want to start from scratch on 1 July, so it means that they want to sign new rental agreements with us. This means the contracts are not taken over. We are effectively losing any advance paid rents and deposits. If we do not sign new contracts with them and pay them again accordingly, they will kick us out per 1 July.

Can they do this?
You are not clear here. The new owner?
Or the owner who's maintenance company went insolvent?
Those are two completely different situations.

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They told you outright, in black and white that they will not accept the deposit and 1 month advance rent you have already paid?
Repeat: Rent and deposit (thanks for latter not being in a blocked account) are already part of the bankruptcy assets of the company that went insolvent. To someone who's in the third priority group when it comes to getting money back they are lost.
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Old 19.06.2017, 18:28
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

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You are not clear here. The new owner?
Or the owner who's maintenance company went insolvent?
Those are two completely different situations.
The current owner of the building has contacted me.

Then you have the rental company that exploits the building by renting it to tenants. They are insolvent. They are not responding to any communication requests.

There is not a new owner.
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Old 19.06.2017, 18:43
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

For crying out loud...have ye not contacted Zürich's version of ASLOCA yet?!! You need to contact them asap pal!
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  #60  
Old 19.06.2017, 18:50
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Re: Housing (renting) company went insolvent, what to do now?

not sure why you're seeing this as complicated op, agency went bust, owner wants paying, if you want to stay there you'd better pay the owner, then try and get back your money from the liquidators of the agency. Or move out.
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