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Old 19.06.2017, 11:25
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Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

Hello all

I'm surprised there is no sticky on this topic.

I've been googling the web and EF for 2 hours now, and can't find anywhere that provides accurate, canton-specific real estate costs/fees. Everything seems to say "approximately" and give ranges. What use is that?

My favorite is this sloppy article on Homegate which cryptically references costs of "3.5 per mil of the sales price" for Notary + Registration. But no detail on 3.5 "what". Percent? Thousands? Backrubs?
https://www.homegate.ch/submit-ad/ad...ing-a-property

As I understand from the following link, for Zurich a buyer pays fees of 0.1% for each of the notary and land registration. So 0.2%. On a 1M CHF purchase, it would be 2,080chf. (includes 8% MWSt on the notary portion)
https://www.notariate.zh.ch/deu/grun...etc/gebuehren/

As I understand, the seller pays the RE agent fee. And there is no land transfer tax in Zurich.

So is that it - just 0.2%? or are there other mandatory costs? (perhaps inspection / lawyer / mortgage transaction or registration)


Kind Regards
bb
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Old 19.06.2017, 11:27
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_mille
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Old 19.06.2017, 11:27
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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My favorite is this sloppy article on Homegate which cryptically references costs of "3.5 per mil of the sales price" for Notary + Registration. But no detail on 3.5 "what". Percent? Thousands? Backrubs?
3.5 per mil = 0.35%

Tom
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Old 19.06.2017, 11:31
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

There are communale and cantonale taxes to pay which the notary collects on behalf of the state.

In Vaud the fees are brtween 4.5-5% depending on the actual cost and your negotiating skills, there is not a fixed price as you seem to want.

The notaries are in a cartel, so the fee is the same withing 0.5% anywhere.

In Vaud commune/Canton taxes are 3.3%, buyers pay

In varies with each canton
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Old 19.06.2017, 11:40
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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So is that it - just 0.2%? or are there other mandatory costs?
There'll be also a small cost to increase Schuldbrief, and that should be all in a simple case. The costs (except for Schuldbrief) are conventionally split 50/50 between buyer and seller. Buying is really cheap in ZH compared to some other cantons
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Old 19.06.2017, 12:20
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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There'll be also a small cost to increase Schuldbrief, and that should be all in a simple case. The costs (except for Schuldbrief) are conventionally split 50/50 between buyer and seller. Buying is really cheap in ZH compared to some other cantons
If you can assume the existing Schuldbrief, that will be less costly than getting a new one.
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Old 19.06.2017, 12:31
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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3.5 per mil = 0.35%

Tom
From the wikipedia link helpfully provided (without the eye roll) by Phil_MCR:

"The term occurs so rarely in English that major dictionaries do not agree on the spelling or pronunciation even within a single dialect of English[10] and some major dictionaries such as Macmillan[11] and Longman[12] do not even contain an entry. "

Notwithstanding the above, the 0.35% is contradicted by the link ZH link I provided which quotes 0.2%.

bb
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Old 19.06.2017, 12:39
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

My thanks to the those who have taken the time to respond.

But again, things like "in Zurich costs are conventionally split 50/50 between buyer and seller" and "it varies with each canon" aren't all that helpful at the end of the day.

I'm sure there must be someone who knows an accurate source for the closing costs for Zurich canton?

Regards
bb
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Old 19.06.2017, 12:59
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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My thanks to the those who have taken the time to respond.

But again, things like "in Zurich costs are conventionally split 50/50 between buyer and seller" and "it varies with each canon" aren't all that helpful at the end of the day.

I'm sure there must be someone who knows an accurate source for the closing costs for Zurich canton?

Regards
bb
Why are you sure about this?

Without knowing the specific details, there are always potential catches in a legal transaction. If you went to a lawyer in the UK and said "what will the total fee for this property transaction be?" they would almost certainly not give you a binding fixed quote - or if they did, you can be sure it would be at or above the top end of the range.

So for example, conventionally means just that - it is split by default, but if you and the other party find some financial advantage (maybe tax), you can agree do it differently and split the saving.
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Old 19.06.2017, 13:04
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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I'm sure there must be someone who knows an accurate source for the closing costs for Zurich canton?
Here's the official pricelist, enjoy
http://www.zh.ch/internet/de/rechtli...Open&Ordnr=243

As you can see from the extensive list of various fees, it varies from case to case depending on exact circumstances

Most important applicable positions would be: 1.1.1, 1.2.1-2, 2.2.1, 2.3.1-2

Last edited by ivank; 19.06.2017 at 13:34.
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Old 19.06.2017, 13:22
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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My thanks to the those who have taken the time to respond.

But again, things like "in Zurich costs are conventionally split 50/50 between buyer and seller" and "it varies with each canon" aren't all that helpful at the end of the day.

I'm sure there must be someone who knows an accurate source for the closing costs for Zurich canton?

Regards
bb
Go ask a notary (in Zurich)
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Old 19.06.2017, 13:23
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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perhaps inspection / lawyer / mortgage transaction or registration)
Drawing up a title for a mortgage (Schuldbrief) is another 0.1% or 1‰ (see no need for words, so no confusion about spelling )

the remianing 0.5‰ could be the Bauhandwerkerpfandrecht or a norarized construction contract (Only for new builds).

And there are also fees if you use the notary as an escrow agent.

No legal need for any inspection (electrical under certain conditions) or lawyer. Still a wise decision to get the property checkes, specially the electricity and anything else which might be of concern.
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Old 19.06.2017, 13:37
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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Here's the official pricelist, enjoy
http://www.zh.ch/internet/de/rechtli...Open&Ordnr=243

Most important applicable positions would be: 1.1.1, 1.2.1-2, 2.2.1, 2.3.1-2

Thanks ivank. Via google translate:

1.1.1 The "1‰" refers to 1 per thousand (it is not a typo of 1%) and is for the notary fee.

2.2.1 1‰ land transfer fee.

2.3.1 1‰ "Schudlbrief" (the mortgage contract referenced by aSwissinTheUS)

For a standard residential purchase with 20% down, it appears that the costs are then approx 0.28% (or approx 2,800 per million), and possibly may be split between buyer/seller (I'm not sure I saw the 50/50 referenced in the document).

I've read elsewhere:
-the notary contract comes in german, so some recommend translation costs
-the real estate agent commission is split between buyer/seller agents and it paid by the seller

Regards
bb
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Old 19.06.2017, 14:01
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

The 50/50 split (or any other possible split like 0/100) is up to the buyer and seller. 50/50 is just customary.

Agent fee is paid by whoever employed the agent. If you are not the guy paying do not expect much from the agent, if you are the guy paying do not expect much from the agent (Unless you found one of the rare good agents).

In Germany they have this weird thing where the buyer pays the agent
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Old 19.06.2017, 14:04
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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Notwithstanding the above, the 0.35% is contradicted by the link ZH link I provided which quotes 0.2%.
Depends on the canton, here it is 3%.

Real estate agent (if there is one, when we sold yes, two times we've bought, no) commission is paid by the seller.

Tom
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Old 19.06.2017, 14:06
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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-the notary contract comes in german, so some recommend translation costs
Notary's job is to make sure you understand what you're getting into. Contract is in German and he/she won't translate it for legal reasons. If you can't satisfactorily read it, yes, you'll have to cough up for a translation, or take a German speaker you trust to translate for you or give him PoA and let him sign it

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-the real estate agent commission is split between buyer/seller agents
Not in ZH, usually here it's 100% seller's headache. It can be contractually overridden, but it's unusual to split it. If you have your own agent, of course you'll have to pay him whatever you two have agreed on. The sale can be done completely without any agents, their only job is to connect people, the rest (incl. drawing up a contract) is done by notary.
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Old 19.06.2017, 14:08
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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ion costs
-the real estate agent commission is split between buyer/seller agents
While a few buyer's agents are starting to crop up, usually in the luxury market, be aware that it is still uncommon to have a buyer's agent for the sale of a 'normal' house. You may find that the seller's agent expects to be the sole agent in the transaction and expects to be paid the full fee.

If you wish to bring a buyer's agent into the process, be aware of the consequences and get any sort of payment agreement up front.

I know of one case where the seller's agent (and seller) refused to allow anyone bringing a buyer's agent to view or bid on the property, and I know of a case where, as the seller's agent refused to split, the buyer's agent was paid soley by the buyer.

A more common scenario is the seller uses his agent, paying the full agency fee. The buyer takes the contract to a lawyer for oversight and peace of mind, paying the lawyer themselves.

But even though there is usually only one agent, make no mistake: The seller's agent works solely for the seller. He or she may gloss over that, some lay it on suspiciously thick... but when there is only one agent he or she does not work in your interest.

(To be accurate, he or she works solely in his or her own interest. Hopefully that is also in the interest of the seller who is paying him.)


ETA, wrt closing costs:

My experience is in SZ, so YMMV and all that, but:

When we signed the Vorverkauf, which is similar to a reservation contract but usually requires 10% as earnest money, we requested, and received, an estimate of the closing costs from the notary. IIRC, there was an additional administrative fee for the estimate. But at least we had a decent understanding of final costs.
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Old 19.06.2017, 14:08
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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Depends on the canton, here it is 3%.

Tom
The original Homegate article and the 0.2% I quoted from website were both in reference to the same canton (Zurich)

From the document that ivank provided it is approx 0.3%, not the 3% you just quoted. I presume you meant 3‰, and not 3%.

Regards
bb
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Old 19.06.2017, 14:11
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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While a few buyer's agents are starting to crop up, usually in the luxury market, be aware that it is still uncommon to have a buyer's agent for the sale of a 'normal' house. You may find that the seller's agent expects to be the sole agent in the transaction and expects to be paid the full fee.

If you wish to bring a buyer's agent into the process, be aware of the consequences and get any sort of payment agreement up front.

I know of one case where the seller's agent (and seller) refused to allow anyone bringing a buyer's agent to view or bid on the property, and I know of a case where, as the seller's agent refused to split, the buyer's agent was paid soley by the buyer.

A more common scenario is the seller uses his agent, paying the full agency fee. The buyer takes the contract to a lawyer for oversight and peace of mind, paying the lawyer themselves.

But even though there is usually only one agent, make no mistake: The seller's agent works solely for the seller. He or she will gloss over that, some lay it on suspiciously thick... but when there is only one agent he or she does not work in your interest.

(To be accurate, he or she works solely in his or her own interest. Hopefully that is also in the interest of the seller who is paying him.)
Thank you for this very helpful clarification.

In North America (where I am from) each of the buyer/seller typically have their own agent and the fee is typically split into four parts (to each of the two individual agents, and to each of their two agencies)

regards
bb
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Old 19.06.2017, 14:17
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Re: Accurate property closing costs fees notary registration inspection? (Zurich)

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From the document that ivank provided it is approx 0.3%, not the 3% you just quoted. I presume you meant 3‰, and not 3%.
It is 3% here, not .3%.

14k for a 465k apartment, 2.3k for a 75k house.

Don't know what it is in ZH.

Tom
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