Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26.06.2017, 08:34
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: zurich
Posts: 94
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 25 Times in 12 Posts
SwissNoobie has no particular reputation at present
Strange rental agreement clause

Hi All,


For the past few weeks we have been looking for an apartment and we finally got one, which we liked. Last week we received the contract papers to be signed and I am a bit confused on some of the clauses.


We are not allowed to leave the apartment before mid 2019 and if we decide to do it afterwards, we need to inform the landlord 4 months in advance, 2 months during the year. Which is a bit unusual and awkward in my view.


The landlord informed us that we can do it outside those restrictions only if we find a new tenant, however from the current tenant I know that some people have been rejecting the apartment already (probably because of this clause).


What do you guys think, is it that unusual or I am just worried too much?
In case we decide to leave early, would those restrictions play a negative impact on finding a new tenant?


Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 26.06.2017, 08:46
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nyon
Posts: 995
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,104 Times in 533 Posts
Rachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
View Post
if we decide to do it afterwards, we need to inform the landlord 4 months in advance, 2 months during the year.
Hi and welcome to EF.


These points here are not uncommon, and apparently far more so in the German parts of Switzerland as opposed to the French regions. I believe you are not usually allowed to terminate during Christmas and summer?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Rachel Moore for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 26.06.2017, 08:52
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 511
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 441 Times in 248 Posts
ThomasSSS has a reputation beyond reputeThomasSSS has a reputation beyond reputeThomasSSS has a reputation beyond reputeThomasSSS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

This is more or less typical. I think my contracts have required 3 months notice after the first year.

The "find a replacement tenant" clause is the usual way out, and given the housing market in Zurich, fairly reliable. The landlord can only require you to find a replacement for a contract with the same rent, etc, and cannot be unreasonable in rejections. e.g. if they reject three replacement tenants applicants who could clearly pay for the place (usual rule is income 3x rent) you are likely off the hook

BTW, you should be aware of the Mieterverband, a tenants rights organization. They have a lot of information about this sort of thing online, offer free legal consultations for members, and so on.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank ThomasSSS for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 26.06.2017, 08:52
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,971
Groaned at 341 Times in 283 Posts
Thanked 11,649 Times in 5,675 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Annoying but it happens more often. This is not illegal.
And welcome!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 26.06.2017, 09:20
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,283
Groaned at 111 Times in 90 Posts
Thanked 7,029 Times in 2,686 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Sounds normal to me, though on the strict side. Not illegal, at all.

Up to you whether you want to go along with that or not and how much you like the apartment. Also depends on your circumstances, if there's a genuine chance of you leaving before mid-2019, then look for another place. If you have no intention to go anywhere, then go for it. The replacement tenant is a normal thing to ask for here if you want to get out of any rental contract early, but given the strict nature of the contract, I wouldn't count on this being as easy as it normally is.

Just don't come back here in 1.5 years complaining about the strict rules of the contract and how the landlord is trying to screw you over (this is not against you, we just read that here A LOT).
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 26.06.2017, 09:31
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 21,069
Groaned at 365 Times in 280 Posts
Thanked 15,852 Times in 9,029 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

When we rented the initial lease was for a year and then a rolling contract until either we or the landlord/agency terminated. We had a 6 months notice period as here in Fribourg canton there are only two "official" moving dates: 31st March and 30th September. As said you can move outside whatever your offical cantonal dates are (they vary from canton to canton), but would have to find a replacement tenant or pay for the remaining months of the contract. Note that termination of your lease has to be done by sending a registered letter to arrive no later than the end of the month. So if you have to give 4 months' notice and want to leave at the end of September then your letter must arrive with the landlord/agency no later than 31st May. Phone calls and e-mails will not do, it has to be a registered letter.

There are plenty of threads on this here in the Housing section of the forum so educate yourself on exactly what your options are. If you really like the place and want a long term rent then go for it, if not look elsewhere or try to negotiate a lesser initial rental period than 2019. And wherever you end up living yes, join the local renters' association as mentioned.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 26.06.2017, 09:39
Mrs. Doolittle's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 6,127
Groaned at 122 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 7,223 Times in 3,404 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

At least you have read and understand the conditions. Surprisingly many people don't.

Not knowing the location or the rent it is impossible to comment on the likelihood of finding a nachmeiter (a tenant to take over your existing contract). It is never a sure thing, there are many factors to consider.

You should have asked or been told these conditions before the contact arrived. If they were not acceptable to you, and were non negotiable, then you should have declined the apartment before a contract was sent.

You can still send the contract back unsigned. If you are dealing with a large rental agency, you will never get another apartment with them as they will think you wasted their time.
__________________

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mrs. Doolittle for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 26.06.2017, 09:43
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: zurich
Posts: 94
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 25 Times in 12 Posts
SwissNoobie has no particular reputation at present
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Location is in Alt-Wiedikon, close to the Schmiede-Wiedikon tram stop.
Rent sum is also quite decent, it is a 2.5 room apartment.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26.06.2017, 09:58
Mrs. Doolittle's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 6,127
Groaned at 122 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 7,223 Times in 3,404 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

I have no idea what "quite decent" means.

However if you think that then maybe others will too.


Quote:
View Post
Location is in Alt-Wiedikon, close to the Schmiede-Wiedikon tram stop.
Rent sum is also quite decent, it is a 2.5 room apartment.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26.06.2017, 09:58
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nyon
Posts: 995
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,104 Times in 533 Posts
Rachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
View Post
At least you have read and understand the conditions. Surprisingly many people don't.

Not knowing the location or the rent it is impossible to comment on the likelihood of finding a nachmeiter (a tenant to take over your existing contract). It is never a sure thing, there are many factors to consider.

You should have asked or been told these conditions before the contact arrived. If they were not acceptable to you, and were non negotiable, then you should have declined the apartment before a contract was sent.

You can still send the contract back unsigned. If you are dealing with a large rental agency, you will never get another apartment with them as they will think you wasted their time.
and if you decline it you will still probably incur a cost for the preparation of the contract...so be warned.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 26.06.2017, 10:07
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,283
Groaned at 111 Times in 90 Posts
Thanked 7,029 Times in 2,686 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
View Post
Location is in Alt-Wiedikon, close to the Schmiede-Wiedikon tram stop.
Rent sum is also quite decent, it is a 2.5 room apartment.
Meaning what? Modern? Large? What is the monthly rent?

Alt-Wiedikon in general is popular as are most areas in Zurich. In general, finding a replacement tenant - should you decide to move out early - is not a massive issue anywhere in Zurich because demand is far greater than supply. Most people can get rid of their place within no time. HOWEVER: if it's a let's say horribly old apartment at a ridiculous monthly cost, then no one will go for a contract that ties them for a significant time. You need to keep that in mind. Given the current tenant has already warned you about other people not considering the place because of the rather strict conditions, I wouldn't be too optimistic about the worst case scenario.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 26.06.2017, 10:09
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: zurich
Posts: 94
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 25 Times in 12 Posts
SwissNoobie has no particular reputation at present
Quote:
View Post
and if you decline it you will still probably incur a cost for the preparation of the contract...so be warned.


That does not seem right. There might be many items in a contract that I could disagree with. It is several pages long and they can hardly inform me in advance for all contract items before they post it to me.

Quote:
View Post
Meaning what? Modern? Large? What is the monthly rent?

Alt-Wiedikon in general is popular as are most areas in Zurich. In general, finding a replacement tenant - should you decide to move out early - is not a massive issue anywhere in Zurich because demand is far greater than supply. Most people can get rid of their place within no time. HOWEVER: if it's a let's say horribly old apartment at a ridiculous monthly cost, then no one will go for a contract that ties them for a significant time. You need to keep that in mind. Given the current tenant has already warned you about other people not considering the place because of the rather strict conditions, I wouldn't be too optimistic about the worst case scenario.

Rent is between 1800-1900, it certainly is not big, bedroom, living room, kitchen, bathroom, two balconies. Both the building and the apartment are in good condition. Around 50 square meters maybe, excluding the balconies.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 26.06.2017 at 10:57. Reason: merging consecutive replies
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank SwissNoobie for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 26.06.2017, 10:15
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nyon
Posts: 995
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,104 Times in 533 Posts
Rachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
View Post
That does not seem right. There might be many items in a contract that I could disagree with. It is several pages long and they can hardly inform me in advance for all contract items before they post it to me.
I know it seems unfair, but sadly here this is an acceptable charge, hence why Mrs. Doolittle mentioned that you should have been aware of every detail prior to the contract being drawn up and sent to you, this is a fee paying service if you decide not to take it...for wasting their time basically.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Rachel Moore for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 26.06.2017, 10:28
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 11,532
Groaned at 87 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 17,525 Times in 7,794 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
View Post

Quote:
and if you decline it you will still probably incur a cost for the preparation of the contract...so be warned.
That does not seem right. There might be many items in a contract that I could disagree with. It is several pages long and they can hardly inform me in advance for all contract items before they post it to me.
Correct. And thus such a fee is legaly unenforacable.
https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/kassens...on-108-franken

PS: 3 Months notice period is the legal minimum.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 26.06.2017, 10:33
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: CH
Posts: 104
Groaned at 6 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 55 Times in 31 Posts
intheblue has earned some respectintheblue has earned some respect
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
View Post
Rent is between 1800-1900, it certainly is not big, bedroom, living room, kitchen, bathroom, two balconies. Both the building and the apartment are in good condition. Around 50 square meters maybe, excluding the balconies.
It's impressive, such an apartment would have been Fr. 800.-- to 900.-- maximum in the eighties and salaries haven't gone up that much
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank intheblue for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 26.06.2017, 10:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Nyon
Posts: 995
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,104 Times in 533 Posts
Rachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond reputeRachel Moore has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
View Post
Correct. And thus such a fee is legaly unenforacable.
https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/kassens...on-108-franken

PS: 3 Months notice period is the legal minimum.
Unenforceable yes, that is why if you are presented with one refuse to pay it, I should have made that clear, sorry, they will chance their luck with the new foreigner in town. A thread on this was around a few months back on EF.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 26.06.2017, 10:38
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,283
Groaned at 111 Times in 90 Posts
Thanked 7,029 Times in 2,686 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
It's impressive, such an apartment would have been Fr. 800.-- to 900.-- maximum in the eighties and salaries haven't gone up that much
Zurich has gone insane indeed.

I mean this one here:
https://www.homegate.ch/mieten/106950172?25 Sorry, but 2050 for this???

So sadly, 1900 sounds about right, though it is on the expensive side. I ran a search on Homegate though and could not find any 2.5-room apartments in that area that would cost less than 2000.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 26.06.2017, 10:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
View Post
That does not seem right. There might be many items in a contract that I could disagree with. It is several pages long and they can hardly inform me in advance for all contract items before they post it to me.

Great user name you got.....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 26.06.2017, 11:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,426
Groaned at 61 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 3,542 Times in 1,925 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Interesting.

Does that mean the landlord can't terminate the contract, either?

I work just there, BTW and I'm not sure I'd like to live there.

Though, after hours it's not too busy. But parking is horribly expensive.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 26.06.2017, 11:17
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,283
Groaned at 111 Times in 90 Posts
Thanked 7,029 Times in 2,686 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strange rental agreement clause

Quote:
View Post
Interesting.

Does that mean the landlord can't terminate the contract, either?

I work just there, BTW and I'm not sure I'd like to live there.

Though, after hours it's not too busy. But parking is horribly expensive.
Well I hear parking is a basic human right, too...


In general, landlords can only terminate rental contracts under certain conditions and the rules are very strict. Only two reasons come to mind right now (there may be more though): non-payment of rent (likely over a longer period of time and despite multiple warnings) or, in case they're owners, if they want to use the apartment for themselves.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flat rental agreement special clause pitinswiss Housing in general 20 08.02.2016 16:14
Rental agreement VincentValentine Housing in general 9 02.11.2015 21:25
Help with Mietzins-Vorbehalt clause in rental contract. Wisconsinite Housing in general 3 01.12.2014 20:49
Rental Agreement purplemouse Housing in general 4 27.03.2013 11:40
Penalty clause added in rental contract Bergamo74 Housing in general 23 04.10.2011 16:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0