 | | 
25.07.2017, 19:39
| Newbie | | Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Zurich
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
| |
Hello all,
Last week we forgot to close the 'Sonnenstoren' on our balcony and it was ripped off from the ceiling by the strong wind. From reading similar threads I understand that the insurance company (I have household and liability insurance) won't pay for it as it is our fault, so we would have to pay ourselves. Is it correct? If it was closed it would have been the liability insurance?
Do I have to pay the full bill or I can argue that since it has been in use for x years, I would only pay x/N where N is expected lifetime? I found few sources where it says that the fabric should be good for 15 years and the belts? (Gurten) for 8 years.
Currently my landlord contacted the company who will do the repair/replacement and wrote me that he will forward the cost to me. Should I reply that I am willing only to pay this fraction? Who should cover the installment costs in that case?
Thanks in advnace | Quote: | |  | | | ... or I can argue that since it has been in use for x years, I would only pay x/N where N is expected lifetime? | | | | | I meant to say: (N - x) / N. I think it is in use for 10 years, so say 5/15 of the price.
Last edited by 3Wishes; 25.07.2017 at 22:58.
Reason: merging consecutive posts
| 
25.07.2017, 19:59
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: canton ZH
Posts: 11,681
Groaned at 190 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,163 Times in 6,862 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind | Quote: | |  | | | I meant to say: (N - x) / N. I think it is in use for 10 years, so say 5/15 of the price. | | | | | I'd say liability insurance pays (minus the deductible - "Selbstbehalt"). If you are a tenant (the thing doesn't belong to you).
The fact it's been used will probably be sorted between your insurance and the owner.
| 
25.07.2017, 20:00
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: CH
Posts: 2,304
Groaned at 87 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,123 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind | Quote: | |  | | | From reading similar threads I understand that the insurance company (I have household and liability insurance) won't pay for it as it is our fault, so we would have to pay ourselves. | | | | | Why not? It's your fault, you're liable, your liability insurance should pay. Unless the case falls under some exclusion clause in your policy
| This user would like to thank ivank for this useful post: | | 
03.09.2017, 21:22
| Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Zürich
Posts: 19
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind
sorry can't help, but can you share your experience here, whether you have to pay in full, or do you manage to bargain with the landlord to pay for the remaining expected lifetime?
| 
03.09.2017, 21:54
| Banned | | Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Aare
Posts: 488
Groaned at 30 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 210 Times in 137 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind
Here we have been told that the building insurance only pays out if it happened whilst it was closed. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but it is written in the house rules.
Nevertheless our neighbours flat has this sun-shade thing fully open a lot of the time, even when there is no sun, there's wind and heavy rain. They have even been told once to close it by the caretaker, yet they still continue to leave it fully open.
Also, once the flat was empty for a long time and it was left fully open by someone doing some clearing work in there, for more than 3 weeks in all weathers.
Ours was replaced before we moved in and still looks very new, apparently it was paid for by the insurance as the flat above had smokers who dropped ash on it which burnt holes in it. Whose insurance paid out I don't know.
| 
03.09.2017, 21:54
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind
Too late for you now but for future reference you can install an app, such as Wetteralarm which pings an a warning for any stormy weather heading your way.
| The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
03.09.2017, 22:04
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: CH
Posts: 2,304
Groaned at 87 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,123 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind | Quote: | |  | | | Here we have been told that the building insurance only pays out if it happened whilst it was closed. | | | | | They won't pay because you're being negligent if they're constantly open. Building insurance covers natural disasters but not stupidity.
It's similar with most insurances. Try crashing into someone with your car on purpose for the fun of it and see how much your insurer would be willing to pay for it if they learn about it - not much at all. They'll pay the victim off, they have to by law, but they'll sue you for the money
| The following 2 users would like to thank ivank for this useful post: | | 
04.09.2017, 07:49
| Banned | | Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Aare
Posts: 488
Groaned at 30 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 210 Times in 137 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind
Which is exactly why ours are nearly always closed.
| 
04.09.2017, 10:19
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Tessin
Posts: 6,201
Groaned at 124 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 7,337 Times in 3,457 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind
A few years back when we installed a new awning, since we already needed electricity to operate it we added the wind/ rain sensor option so that the awning would close automatically.
It was really a great feature and one sees this more often today as people realise if they open the awning and are not home when the weather changes, there is nothing they can do to prevent possible damage.
| The following 3 users would like to thank Mrs. Doolittle for this useful post: | | 
04.09.2017, 10:29
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,161
Groaned at 385 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 10,601 Times in 5,595 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind | Quote: | |  | | | Here we have been told that the building insurance only pays out if it happened whilst it was closed. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but it is written in the house rules. | | | | | Apparently this is not true.
According to SRF either household liability insurance, or in case of an actual storm (winds above 75km/h) the Gebäudeversicherung, has to pay.
The insurance can only refuse to pay in cases of gross negligence, where most basic elements of caution have been ignored. For instance if you're at home during the thunderstorm but don't close them. Apparently not closing them before going out doesn't give reason for the insurance to not pay.
Request a written decision, together with the reason the insurance refuses to pay. It may well be worth challenging. | Quote: | |  | | | They won't pay because you're being negligent if they're constantly open. Building insurance covers natural disasters but not stupidity. | | | | | Nothing wrong per se with leaving them permanently open during an extended period of warm weather. I'd agree that it's not exactly intelligent but that doesn't make it wrong.
| The following 4 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post: | | 
04.09.2017, 10:43
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind | Quote: | |  | | | Hello all,
Last week we forgot to close the 'Sonnenstoren' on our balcony and it was ripped off from the ceiling by the strong wind. From reading similar threads I understand that the insurance company (I have household and liability insurance) won't pay for it as it is our fault, so we would have to pay ourselves. Is it correct? If it was closed it would have been the liability insurance?
Do I have to pay the full bill or I can argue that since it has been in use for x years, I would only pay x/N where N is expected lifetime? I found few sources where it says that the fabric should be good for 15 years and the belts? (Gurten) for 8 years.
Currently my landlord contacted the company who will do the repair/replacement and wrote me that he will forward the cost to me. Should I reply that I am willing only to pay this fraction? Who should cover the installment costs in that case?
Thanks in advnace
I meant to say: (N - x) / N. I think it is in use for 10 years, so say 5/15 of the price. | | | | | I think it does corresponds to "excessive use" (usure excessive), and consequently, as you said, your side has to pay. (Edit: Your side means you or your insurance, to be established, and it does not change the following)
The think for Asloca for the item's lifetime ( https://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j...c4u1QZynh7D_-A) does mention 15 years for the fabric and 8 years for the cord.
I am not sure exactly how it all fits together, and what is the extend of the damages, as it could be also the "structure" and might be under another category.
Since it's a reference only, you have to use it as a basis for negotiation with the landlord.
In your calculations, I don't understand why you divide, I think you should substract.
Ex: X lifetime is 10 years. Today X has been used for 7 years (by anyone, it does not matters who). Because it's broken, you have to pay Z, the difference between it;s remaining life (Y) .
So you must pay something near Z = X-Y... 
Ok lets forget maths, you pay what remaining life time it has!
Now, what I am not sure about is how it fits with the new item...
Say the new item will cost 1 million, there is no way you pay a percent of that or a propertionnaly equivalent cost.
You have to pay the thing you broke, not the new thing.
Which is why, I think, you should enquire BEFORE the new store is setup in regard of its price, and negotiate a proportion more or less matching the old store you broke.
I think it's the only way to avoid conflict, and be careful, do it in advance because it can get messy. Contact the landlord and negotiate before anything financial is commited. And once agreed or not, commit your side in writing, copy and recorded mail (costs around 6.30chf).
| 
28.11.2017, 16:09
| Newbie | | Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Zurich
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind
Thanks everybody for you answers and suggestions. The case concluded only today as the landlord was really slow. Below is short summary in case anybody is in a similar situation.
I contacted my liability insurance provider, they opened a claim. I think there was some negotiation between them and the landlord as for who has to pay, I was not part of that. Landlord sent repair company to assess the damage. The company gave a quote for the work, insurance said that they agree with the costs but also asked landlord to provide the document confirming the age of the Sonnenstoren.
After the work has been finished (they just installed a new thing) landlord forwarded the bills to me. I sent them to insurance company which paid 1'300 CHF leaving the deductible of 200 CHF to be paid by me to landlord directly totaling 1'500 CHF which is the full sum billed by the repair company.
I am a bit surprised that the insurance company paid the whole amount, because I doubt that the Storen were new. Or was it my responsibility to negotiate with landlord? But I see no incentive for me to do that: I doubt that amortization would have brought the bill below 200 CHF and insurance company told me that a claim doesn't increase my premium.
| The following 4 users would like to thank grozhd for this useful post: | | 
28.11.2017, 17:45
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: canton ZH
Posts: 11,681
Groaned at 190 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,163 Times in 6,862 Posts
| | Re: Broken Sonnenstoren because of the wind
Fr. 1500.00 for a new one plus installation sounds cheap. Depending on the size of course.
No need to worry, insurance companies don't usually pay more than they have to |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:19. | |