Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Housing in general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 23.08.2017, 19:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Next time when something is broken, walk the proper ways for replacement instead of using it till it breaks further.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 23.08.2017, 19:06
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

If you want a shower tomorrow, you should tape some 110 liter black rubbish bags
together, overlapping, with brown tape, & put into the place where the door was.

But I expect you have already thought of that.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 23.08.2017, 19:15
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,259
Groaned at 93 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 18,722 Times in 8,305 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
If you want a shower tomorrow, you should tape some 110 liter black rubbish bags
together, overlapping, with brown tape, & put into the place where the door was.

But I expect you have already thought of that.
Or for those which are not so handy and a bit more lazy: Just shower and mop it up.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 23.08.2017, 19:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
If you want a shower tomorrow, you should tape some 110 liter black rubbish bags
together, overlapping, with brown tape, & put into the place where the door was.

But I expect you have already thought of that.
Broken glass everywhere, blood, 110 liter black rubbish bags... something uncanny going on!

Next time I suggest to use "exit" it's less messy and it seems legal.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank CorsebouTheReturn for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 23.08.2017, 19:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
Or you could join the Danish auxillary submariners club. They have neat ways of body disposal and pretending it was all an accident!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41021223
Found only a short after, i would not cold that "neat"

They should put Peter Madsen back in his submarine, close the thing from the outside and throw it back in the water.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 23.08.2017, 21:39
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
Is this the case with something like this? In the UK, ordinarily a "Health & Safety" repair would mandate a response within 24H (and I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty certain broken glass would count); is there no similar rule here?
That is the exact reason the UK is so screwed up, nobody takes ANY responsibility whatsoever and hides behind the all embracing "Health and Safety"

There is no H&S here, just common sense, if the shower is damaged be very careful or make sure it gets repaired by being forceful with your landlord, rather than moaning...oh he didn't return my call !
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 23.08.2017, 21:52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: lugano
Posts: 358
Groaned at 30 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 225 Times in 136 Posts
DL21 has earned some respectDL21 has earned some respect
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

i just realized there is probably some confusion here about what the 'estate agent' does. in the UK the agents are often property managers for rental properties and the owner pays them to deal with clients. this is not the case switzerland. the agent is just someone who advertises your property and finds a renter. once they've rented it they are no longer involved - you deal with the landlord or their management agent (which is not commonly the estate agent). that's probably why they never responded to your requests!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 23.08.2017, 22:31
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
i just realized there is probably some confusion here about what the 'estate agent' does. in the UK the agents are often property managers for rental properties and the owner pays them to deal with clients. this is not the case switzerland. the agent is just someone who advertises your property and finds a renter. once they've rented it they are no longer involved - you deal with the landlord or their management agent (which is not commonly the estate agent). that's probably why they never responded to your requests!
I'd like to assume that TS contacted the party with whom she has the contract.

(who else?)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 23.08.2017, 22:56
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 9
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
pedrodude has become a little unpopularpedrodude has become a little unpopular
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
i just realized there is probably some confusion here about what the 'estate agent' does. in the UK the agents are often property managers for rental properties and the owner pays them to deal with clients. this is not the case switzerland. the agent is just someone who advertises your property and finds a renter. once they've rented it they are no longer involved - you deal with the landlord or their management agent (which is not commonly the estate agent). that's probably why they never responded to your requests!
Well that certainly explains things a little, I appreciate that. Yes in my experience the "agent" is just that; I've never met an owner in my decade or so of renting in the UK.

However having said that, in my situation here I've also no idea who the owner is (I believe the name is on the contratto but I've no contact details) and all of my dealings have been with the estate agency so far. They referred me to the amministratore, who happens to be my neighbour, but they denied they were the amministratore, so I don't think it's entirely due to my being a foreigner...
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 23.08.2017, 23:09
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 9
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
pedrodude has become a little unpopularpedrodude has become a little unpopular
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
Just seen that the depository authority in case of withheld rent in canton Ticino are the local "Uffici di conciliazione" (rental arbitration offices) Here the one of the city of Lugano https://www.lugano.ch/tools/sportell...iliazione.html
Hopefully won't come to this but appreciate the link.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 23.08.2017, 23:26
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 9
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
pedrodude has become a little unpopularpedrodude has become a little unpopular
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
Broken glass everywhere, blood, 110 liter black rubbish bags... something uncanny going on!

Next time I suggest to use "exit" it's less messy and it seems legal.
I'm finding that humour consistently seems to turn morbid here for some reason... it's the mountains isn't it? Makes one feel existential.

That or it's the food eliciting despair.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 23.08.2017, 23:31
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,136
Groaned at 2,033 Times in 1,525 Posts
Thanked 34,690 Times in 16,478 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
However having said that, in my situation here I've also no idea who the owner is (I believe the name is on the contratto but I've no contact details) and all of my dealings have been with the estate agency so far. They referred me to the amministratore, who happens to be my neighbour, but they denied they were the amministratore, so I don't think it's entirely due to my being a foreigner...
It's always in the contract who the owner is.

Administrators, on the other hand, come and go, and generally have no legal standing.

Just saying.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 24.08.2017, 04:13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 362
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 347 Times in 164 Posts
chomp has earned the respect of manychomp has earned the respect of manychomp has earned the respect of many
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
Tell them you want it fixed within some period (two weeks?).

Make it clear that if this doesn't happen, you will get it fixed yourself, deduct the cost from your next rental payment and send them the invoice/receipt as proof.
Please don't do this. It won't work in your favour. As a rule of thumb in Switzerland, one must always, without exception, pay 1) medical insurance and 2) rent before anything else.

Your landlord is legally obliged to repair/clean things that aren't basic household chores.
You're entitled to have repair of the damaged thing, and if the damage has prevented you from using your apartment normally you can ask for compensation. If you've sustained serious injury, you're also entitled to compensation, but a few scratches probably won't warrant a trip to the doctor for the necessary medical certificate. (CO Art. 259a Al. 1)
As others have said, in Switzerland anything contractual should be done by recorded post.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank chomp for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 24.08.2017, 14:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
Please don't do this. It won't work in your favour. As a rule of thumb in Switzerland, one must always, without exception, pay 1) medical insurance and 2) rent before anything else.

Your landlord is legally obliged to repair/clean things that aren't basic household chores.
You're entitled to have repair of the damaged thing, and if the damage has prevented you from using your apartment normally you can ask for compensation. If you've sustained serious injury, you're also entitled to compensation, but a few scratches probably won't warrant a trip to the doctor for the necessary medical certificate. (CO Art. 259a Al. 1)
As others have said, in Switzerland anything contractual should be done by recorded post.
On the other hand, an extraordinary incident like that, appears to be under "accident insurance" and not under "illness". It should be covered without franchise. And if there are any injuries which could turn bad, it's best to check them quickly.
I'm very not fan of going to the doctor for something not significant. Unfortunately, if you dont report properly and something gets bad, you end up liable here.
As exemple, the tick bite (which is "accident" in Swiss laws). If you dont go to docteur quickly and he sees the tick, it might not count as accident. If you got the related diceases (Lyme or whatever), the accident insurance can refuse to cover anything.
I can't comment, not knowing the extend of alleged injuries suffered, I'm just saying that "man up" can end up having to "man up the bills up your...wallet" on a later stage. And that often hurts way more than a few cuts and bruises.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 24.08.2017, 14:59
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,259
Groaned at 93 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 18,722 Times in 8,305 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
On the other hand, an extraordinary incident like that, appears to be under "accident insurance" and not under "illness". It should be covered without franchise. And if there are any injuries which could turn bad, it's best to check them quickly.

I'm very not fan of going to the doctor for something not significant. Unfortunately, if you dont report properly and something gets bad, you end up liable here.
As exemple, the tick bite (which is "accident" in Swiss laws). If you dont go to docteur quickly and he sees the tick, it might not count as accident. If you got the related diceases (Lyme or whatever), the accident insurance can refuse to cover anything.
You only have zero franchise on accidents when you are covered through your employer. If you do not work then the accident coverage is part of your normal health insurance and normal franchise and co-payment rules apply.

If something is not an accident then it is an illness and should be covered by the health insurance. Been there done that, as they say.

The worst what can happen is you have private coverage for accident insurance but only compulsory standard health insurance. When something which later is "downgraded" to illness gets treated in a private hospital under presumed accident coverage you will be faced with a huge bill. Luckily not in my case.
__________________
"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 25.08.2017, 09:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,038
Groaned at 348 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 10,395 Times in 5,494 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
You only have zero franchise on accidents when you are covered through your employer. If you do not work then the accident coverage is part of your normal health insurance and normal franchise and co-payment rules apply.

If something is not an accident then it is an illness and should be covered by the health insurance. Been there done that, as they say.
The glass broke during ordinary use, with the direct effect of injuries to OP. The defect makes this story (ordinary usage rather than actually breaking it, e.g. by stumbling into it) plausible enough to accept it as true. I think that makes it the landlord's responsibility, and as a consequence it's also the landlord who would have to cover medical costs if any arose. It would be different if, say, the glass had broken because OP stumbled and half-fell into the glass door. So I think OP's accident/health insurance is irrelevant here.

As for the repair:
OP, do you have private liability insurance? If so, inform them; let them handle the thing if they accept to. Make sure they're aware it's urgent.

Otherwise send a registered letter demanding order placement within three business days with the actual fixing happening PRONTO. I think it's unproductive to demand actual repair by xy days because you don't know how long it takes for the new door to arrive. Reserve the right to place the order yourself, at the landlord's costs, if you don't receive confirmation (in writing) of the order's placement (preferably by the company doing the work) together with the expected repair date. Also reserve the right to pay the full rent into escrow, starting with the one that's due in a few days, if this doesn't get handled speedily.

The default approach is: Who orders, pays. So you need to protect yourself for the case where you place the order yourself, hence the deadlines above and the explicit mentioning of you ordering at the landlord's cost.

Generally speaking you do want to have private liability insurance if you don't already. It's also common to have private household insurance, usually the two are combined. Typically the contract runs for many years (5-10yrs), demand amendment if you're not Ok with that.

You can leave the glass debris to the professionals who fix the door, but if you want to use the bath meanwhile you'll have to clean that up yourself, for no compensation.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 25.08.2017, 10:50
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,086
Groaned at 486 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

is this thread for real?? Op is so helpless they can't clean up some broken glass??? and would expect a UK landlord to also clean up crap like this?? (LOL not gonna happen, not sure what planet op is actually on)

god help the world
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 25.08.2017, 19:17
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DK - previously Zug
Posts: 3,327
Groaned at 169 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 6,699 Times in 2,236 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
I'm finding that humour consistently seems to turn morbid here for some reason... it's the mountains isn't it? Makes one feel existential.

That or it's the food eliciting despair.
That, or the fact that he‘s a French speaker. Just sayin‘.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 26.08.2017, 11:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
is this thread for real?? Op is so helpless they can't clean up some broken glass??? and would expect a UK landlord to also clean up crap like this?? (LOL not gonna happen, not sure what planet op is actually on)

god help the world
I think it's a bit beyond that, there were clear signs that the agency was not fixing something defective and then we wonder about responsabilities...
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 26.08.2017, 13:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tenant's rights (Lugano, Switzerland) involving repairs/injuries in rented proper

Quote:
View Post
I think it's a bit beyond that, there were clear signs that the agency was not fixing something defective and then we wonder about responsabilities...
There's different views possible.

"OP continued using something she knew was broke, and given that the glass might have broken due to tension one might wonder how that tension came upon the glass. Did she pull/push way harder than one might expect would be wise on a glass door?"

Another example, let's say one of my indoor doors is a bit off and needs a lot of force to be closed, after a period of using to much force on the door the hinges break and I break 3 toes by getting the falling door on it. Who's to blame?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
estate agent, injury, repair, tenancy, ticino




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tenant rights when landlord wants to show property edu Housing in general 41 06.11.2017 23:05
your rights as a tenant - tenancy law in Switzerland stefbe Housing in general 4 31.08.2015 11:05
Tenant / Subletter Rights Hell_Vetica Daily life 4 15.02.2015 19:21
Tenant's Rights Lawyer ealexand Housing in general 5 20.07.2010 15:26
Securing a rented property before job secured Shenanigans Housing in general 2 25.02.2008 17:50


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0