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Old 10.10.2017, 11:10
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If they have unused used building rights they are entitled to build.
Only if they already have pre-planning permission for the proposed extension, in which case they wouldn't need to be going through this process now, surely?

So to the OP I say: Yes, put in your objection, which won't cost you anything (well, there will be a filing charge, of course, but you know what I mean). It means that someone in the Gemeindehaus will at least have to look at the proposal and not simply rubber-stamp it unread, and if they think your objection is reasonable they will send the plans back to the owner. I'm not sure even if they would get to see who it was that objected, although it would probably be obvious of the reason is given to them.

There is a reason that the poles are erected, and this is it.

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Buy a far bigger plot of land if you wish to guarantee light & views. Why should someone who has already built have any say over someone with the right to build but yet to be exercised? That right to build was always there nothing has changed.
Eh? Something has indeed changed, and is up to the proposer of said change to manage it, not for the neighbours to simply lay back and accept it. They clearly don't have the 'right' to build this yet, so should be accepting of their neighbours' rights not to have their own privacy and light interfered with.
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  #22  
Old 10.10.2017, 11:10
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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If they have unused used building rights they are entitled to build.

Buy a far bigger plot of land if you wish to guarantee light & views. Why should someone who has already built have any say over someone with the right to build but yet to be exercised? That right to build was always there nothing has changed.
That may be so, but in the absence of cast-iron certainly if I were the OP would find out instead of just leaving it to guesswork.
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Old 10.10.2017, 11:20
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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Can you see a possible compromise? An alteration to the proposed build that you could live with? If so, after filing an objection - and if you have a sense that your objection might hold sway - you might want to request a meeting with the neighbors to discuss alternatives.
You know what the most common compromise in CH is for cases like this?


"You want to build your thing and not go through a 3 year legal battle? I could withdraw my objection for x0.000 CHF..."


I am all for a great relationship with the neighbours, but not at a one-sided cost. And most Swiss would do the same.
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Old 10.10.2017, 11:26
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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Only if they already have pre-planning permission for the proposed extension, in which case they wouldn't need to be going through this process now, surely?
Planning permission is not the same as building rights.

Planning permission expires if not used. Building rights generally don't (but can be modified by zoning laws etc). But you need to (re-)apply for planning permission if you want to exercise pre-existing building rights. And people can object, especially to the way in which the building rights are being interpreted.
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Old 10.10.2017, 11:31
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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If they have unused used building rights they are entitled to build.

Buy a far bigger plot of land if you wish to guarantee light & views. Why should someone who has already built have any say over someone with the right to build but yet to be exercised? That right to build was always there nothing has changed.
You don't necessarily need a lot of land to build a freestanding house. The building rules will stipulate things such as distance from the neighbours and the road, as well as maximum height of the house. So you may be able to build taller rather than wider.

If you are building where you are surrounded by existing homes, as we are, you can impact other houses and still be sticking to the rules. Things are more complicated when houses are attached which is why we opted against that style even though the space allowed for it.

Having had the experience of owning an attached house I vowed never again.
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  #26  
Old 10.10.2017, 11:48
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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Probably an Abraham-follower, if you think positive it will all come to you....
I used to make assumptions as well.

Yours are grossly inaccurate as I appreciate reality and what is,
am no follower (or anybody in particular for a fact) plus not into thinking.
Some will get this.
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  #27  
Old 10.10.2017, 11:57
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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There will be a set time period in which an objection can be lodged, miss that date and you lose your leverage. The time might be two months, or a few weeks.
Something has me think this is the same everywhere, 20 days starting with the publication of the request. But either way you're of course right.
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Old 10.10.2017, 12:01
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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The neighbours are not giving something up, their building is already in that position. They are the one making the changes and affecting another.

They would be giving up the opportunity which comes with their house and rights seems as well. And yes, they are affecting another.


Sorry, but that sounds like a load of meaningless new-age drivel.
To you and many others it does. All is in accordance with the nature of the evolution.
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  #29  
Old 10.10.2017, 12:20
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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To you and many others it does. All is in accordance with the nature of the evolution.
erm...what?
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  #30  
Old 10.10.2017, 12:23
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

I really am amazed by people who would just let it happen since else the neighbours might not like them anymore.
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Old 10.10.2017, 12:25
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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To you and many others it does. All is in accordance with the nature of the evolution.
OP fighting the permit and his neighbours getting angry at him since they either have to find a way to make OP happy with their plans or they simple will not able to build what they want would thus be the nature of evolution and you should be happy with that.

(Ps, are you a troll or on drugs?)
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Old 10.10.2017, 12:28
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

People are saying a lot about the OP not "poisoning the relationship" with the neighbours - but not that the neighbours seem to have put this up without discussing it with those affected first!

They are clearly not interested in discussion, or they would have been decent enough to give advance warning.

I would go straight to the Bauamt and register an objection; once that is done, at least things can't suddenly move without the OP having no say.
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Old 10.10.2017, 12:44
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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I really am amazed by people who would just let it happen since else the neighbours might not like them anymore.
In my case we are in exactly the situation of this kind of live & let live compromise & approach to life right now. We are having a roof extension built at the moment. The neighbour who overlooks us could have objected & stopped what we are doing BUT he is also planning on building houses on what is currently his field. That will overlook us & bring more noise + a lot less privacy. However we understand perfectly well that it is his only way to finance renovating his own very old house & live a comfortable retirement. I see no point whatsoever in creating trouble where it's not necessary. He could have objected to our therefore we would have objected to his & we'd all live at war. So it's not just a case of roll over & think of England. It's a case of being considerate.

Last edited by neddy; 10.10.2017 at 12:45. Reason: spelling
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Old 10.10.2017, 12:47
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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In my case we are in exactly the situation of this kind of live & let live compromise & approach to life right now. We are having a roof extension built at the moment. The neighbour who overlooks us could have objected & stopped what we are doing BUT he is also planning on building houses on what is currently his field. That will overlook us & bring more noise + a lot less privacy. However we understand perfectly well that it is his only way to finance renovating his own very old house & live a comfortable retirement. I see no point whatsoever in creating trouble where it's not necessary. He could have objected to our therefore we would have objected to his & we'd all live at war. So it's not just a case of roll over & think of England. It's a case of being considerate.
Considerate starts in my world with neighbours contacting each other upfront and talk about things instead of suddenly seeing poles on the neighbours roof.
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Old 10.10.2017, 13:16
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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In my case we are in exactly the situation of this kind of live & let live compromise & approach to life right now. We are having a roof extension built at the moment. The neighbour who overlooks us could have objected & stopped what we are doing BUT he is also planning on building houses on what is currently his field. That will overlook us & bring more noise + a lot less privacy. However we understand perfectly well that it is his only way to finance renovating his own very old house & live a comfortable retirement. I see no point whatsoever in creating trouble where it's not necessary. He could have objected to our therefore we would have objected to his & we'd all live at war. So it's not just a case of roll over & think of England. It's a case of being considerate.
Call me kerrazzyyyy but isn't there, y'know, a bit of a massive difference between a roof extension being built on the same house, and a bunch of houses being built next to you in a field?
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Old 10.10.2017, 13:19
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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Call me kerrazzyyyy but isn't there, y'know, a bit of a massive difference between a roof extension being built on the same house, and a bunch of houses being built next to you in a field?
Yes there is. The houses will have a view of my arse in the air whilst I am gardening. They can consider that a deduction for their taxes.
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Old 10.10.2017, 13:59
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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Yes there is. The houses will have a view of my arse in the air whilst I am gardening. They can consider that a deduction for their taxes.
In that case thank you for the delightful little personal anecdote, which while sadly irrelevant to the discussion, at least made us all chuckle.
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  #38  
Old 10.10.2017, 14:00
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

OP here. Thanks to everyone so far for the great discussion thread.

The neighbors are unfortunately very petty. I could give a number of examples of how unreasonably they acted over the years but that is not the point of this thread. There is no relationship to lose with them. I do not want to fight to even some score. As someone else mentioned this is not a social thing. I want to fight to save my sunlight and my privacy.

I am in a Siedlung with 28 other identical houses. Each house was designed to get this sunlight through the same window. The Siedlung is 30 years old and in that time nobody else has attempted to modify the outside structure in any way. The neighbor wanting to do this construction is the first in a row. I am the second. This change will affect nobody else except me and will materially affect my enjoyment of the house. The neighbor will know exactly what they are proposing to take away because they have the same window. My guess is either they don't care or they are too stuck in their world to consider the implications of what they plan.

I'm not against them building, I am against losing my light. If they moved the addition back 80 cm maybe I don't even lose light, in which case I would agree with it. Probably the won't want that because then the new window is too high in the roof to enjoy. They already have several Dachfensters, this would replace one of them.

I have to fight this. They want to change status quo and take something from me that I currently have. They obviously are not concerned with my views. My only concern is that we get into a situation with a meeting with the neighbor and the Bauamt and it is totally in Swiss German, even though the neighbors are fluent in English. It's my problem that I don't do German that well, however it makes me wonder if I would have a better case if I had external representation there who can do the Swiss German on my behalf. My real question now is how seriously will the Bauamt consider deprivation of light?
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Old 10.10.2017, 14:02
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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You know what the most common compromise in CH is for cases like this?

"You want to build your thing and not go through a 3 year legal battle? I could withdraw my objection for x0.000 CHF..."

I am all for a great relationship with the neighbours, but not at a one-sided cost. And most Swiss would do the same.
Maybe not that far, but OP should at least have in mind what would be an acceptable outcome. Completely blocking the project forever probably isn't realistic, so what will be the alternative that works?
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Old 10.10.2017, 14:38
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Re: Could I win a fight against a neighbor's Baugesuch?

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I am in a Siedlung with 28 other identical houses. Each house was designed to get this sunlight through the same window. The Siedlung is 30 years old and in that time nobody else has attempted to modify the outside structure in any way.
Just to check, does your Siedlung have a Gestaltungsplan? Does your Siedlung operate as a neighborhood or owner's association?

We live in a similar Quartier. When the Quartier was built, a Gestaltungsplan was incorporated (or whatever the legalese here would be) that prohibits any change to the exterior of the houses. It's so strict that we cannot even make the entry to the house handicap accessible...

Our Gestaltungsplan for the Quarter is, oddly, controlled/held/whatevered at the cantonal level, not the Gemeinde level.

That the Gestaltungsplan is held at the cantonal level has caused quite a bit of confusion over the years, most notably when a Gemeinde official tells Owner X or Owner Y that, yes, Project A or Project B is possible according to local building regs. And then the poles go up, someone unearths the Gestaltungsplan and objections fly.

So my advice... this is one time when it would be wise to hire a lawyer, preferably one who is 'connected' in the village but not likely to be influenced by the other owners. Look into the Siedlung documents from 30 years ago - it would be common that a Siedlung had some sort of Gestaltungsplan in place when built. Check not only at the Gemeinde Bauamt but also at any relevant cantonal bureaucracy.

---

Remember that a key component to 'maintaining neighborhood harmony' is not that your roll over, but rather that you each come away with something in an acceptable compromise.

Think about the possible outcomes, and think what would reasonably compensate you for the damage to your property - and property value! - that the neighbor's addition will do. You might get an expert, perhaps from the HEV, to value the house with the possible affect from the neighbor's addition factored in. That way you'd have more data to use in your negotiations.

But if the neighbors have already demonstrated that they are difficult people, then maintaining neighborhood harmony is of less concern. Do make sure you have an idea as to how far they might go in a grudge match, though. (For instance, how 'connected' are they with the village Powers That Be?)


Good luck.
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