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  #21  
Old 01.11.2017, 02:28
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

If you're determined to not let them in on that particular day due to your surgery, just say so (and mention the 3 year thing just in case), then deal with consequences later.

You'd be potentially responsible for financial damages that the landlord suffers that can be tied to your non-cooperation - like maybe charges for worker's wasted time and having to reschedule everything to another day. But there's also a risk to him that if case reaches court, the judge could side with you and he'd lose even more money. The law specifies that the landlord has give a notice "in good time", which can subject to interpretations.
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  #22  
Old 01.11.2017, 02:28
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If I had valuable goods in my flat, that needed special protection, I would want to make sure that they didn't get damaged by that water.
As I wrote, there are about ten reasons to not do this.

Material values are one of them, but they are insured.

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If you're determined to not let them in on that particular day due to your surgery, just say so (and mention the 3 year thing just in case), then deal with consequences later.

You'd be potentially responsible for financial damages that the landlord suffers that can be tied to your non-cooperation - maybe charges for worker's wasted time and having to reschedule everything to another day. But there's also a risk to him that if case reaches court the judge would side with you and he'd lose even more money.
This makes sense.

However, itís easy to prove I have the legal obligation to protect copyrights.

Making it sure no photo is taken takes as much time as the workers are here. Moving everything and bringing it back and restoring things would take maybe two weeks. It would cost me several times more than the whole repair, and Iím not talking about the cost of the transfers.

They could come any other time the whole year. I donít mind new years eve or Christmas or anything like that.

Or, any other normal working day except this 2-3.

By the way, I know it from experience and from lawyers, I need to have cameras if I want to prove a specific person damaged my values.

I donít have cameras, and it would cause more attention to have them.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 01.11.2017 at 02:35. Reason: merging consecutive replies. Please use the multi-quote feature (button to the right of quote)
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Old 01.11.2017, 02:39
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

Well, if they need access to your apartment to do the repairs and would manage to do so without your cooperation with a locked apartment I think you can pull certain conclusions from that already even without video survaillance

Also landlords aren't allowed to keep themselves a copy of your key. If you have a registered key system like Kaba 20 or Kaba Star, you can ask Kaba exactly how many key copies they made and if there's any missing (per count in move-in protocol), it would be reasonable to demand that the landlord coughs it up or replaces locks
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Old 01.11.2017, 02:41
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

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This is the best idea so far. The only problem is that in such case one wants to avoid attention as much as possible. But I will consider this.
LOL, why?

Troll?

Staying home 350 days a year, all day is definitely not healthy.
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Old 01.11.2017, 02:43
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

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If I had valuable goods in my flat, that needed special protection, I would want to make sure that they didn't get damaged by that water.
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As I wrote, there are about ten reasons to not do this.
However, from above:
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Let me underline I have about ten reasons to not let anyone ever come to my flat when Iím home.
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Old 01.11.2017, 02:43
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Also landlords aren't allowed to keep themselves a copy of your key. If you have a registered key system like Kaba 20 or Kaba Star, you can ask Kaba exactly how many key copies they made and if there's any missing, it would be reasonable to demand that the landlord coughs it up or replaces locks
Thank you. This is also awesome. Yes, I have a Kaba 20 key. The lock has been replaced by the landlord maybe a year ago, thatís why I donít know it for sure, but there is a number on the other side after the text "secusuisse"

I wonder if I can check the number of the keys online.

If I think of it, itís unlikely they would try to come in without a key.

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However, from above:
That was a mistake as you can read it in the second post.

When Iím not home.

I donít expect the workers to be evil. I donít think they would want to harm me.

But there is a difference between "I hope" and "I have to make it sure".

Last edited by 3Wishes; 01.11.2017 at 03:09. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 01.11.2017, 02:45
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

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I wonder if I can check the number of the keys online.
I don't think there's anything online, but they tell it over the phone or email.
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  #28  
Old 01.11.2017, 02:52
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I don't think there's anything online, but they tell it over the phone or email.
I like those companies who display an email address instead of a web form. I sent them the email.

Thank you again.

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If you don't trust your "friends" to come to your house even when you are there, sorry but you need better friends. The workmen are not going to rummage through your stuff to steal copyrights or whatever.
I see your point. I have excellent friends, thatís why I will not put the responsibility on their shoulders.

Besides, there are items which can be damaged in a way most people have no idea about. Hint: I have not much space. I have items I canít move alone, and other items I would not let anyone else move.

If Iím home I can tell the worker please donít do this and that, and watch. I would be friendly.

Itís not the first time. Swisscom brought here glass fibers. They came in. And yes, I had to tell them to not do this and that because they did and almost did.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 01.11.2017 at 03:10. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #29  
Old 01.11.2017, 02:59
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

It seems to me that money is not an issue for you. You sound ready to pay whatever additional charges the landlord may bill to you if you don't let them into the flat on that day. Okay, fair enough.

If I've understood it correctly, you want to guard the possessions in your flat, and you want to do this personally.

You don't want to risk anyone photographing them, but you don't seem at all worried that those things could be damaged by the water flowing out of whatever part of the heating system is broken, or out of any new water leaks that may happen while the technicians are doing the repairs.

If the things don't need protection from water, but do need protection by you, and if you cannot delegate this protecting, then you will risk incurring the charges. That's probably about it.

If you don't think the bill your landlord sends you, for the extra work, is right, then later you could try to use your legal insurance, and spend a long time in court fighting against your landlord to get out of those charges.

Perhaps it would be more cost-effective to postpone the date of your operation, so you can be there to protect your possessions on the day the landlord says the technicians will be working in the building. It's a question of resources of all kinds: physical, financial, in inspiration, time, health and nerves. I hope you find a solution that really solves the issue, and I would wish for you that you don't end up in anything that involves going to court.

You also said that you intend to move out. Remember that any extra work you cause for the landlord this time round may well colour his/her feelings and dealings with you later, when you move out. That could influence the way the inspection is done, on the day of handing over the keys, and the amount of faults billed to you, then, when the flat inspected for damages, and how much of your deposit you get back.

Wherever it is in your power, build peace.

Last edited by doropfiz; 01.11.2017 at 03:32. Reason: typo
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Old 01.11.2017, 03:35
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

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It seems to me that money is not an issue for you. You sound ready to pay whatever additional charges the landlord may bill to you if you don't let them into the flat on that day. Okay, fair enough.
Correct. However, Iím not saying it would make me happy.

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If I've understood it correctly, you want to guard the possessions in your flat, and you want to do this personally.
Yes. Itís possible to cause damage to me without harmful intentions and without being aware of it.

As for the material value, itís not on the floor.

Another issue is I have not enough space. When I moved in, I had completely different problems I have now. I want to move but I want to get a permit C prematurely for better flat options. (I have B and it makes a difference). Speaking German would help get the C but Iíll do my best. In the end, itís all about time.

Meanwhile, people who want to work in my flat need my help to do it without causing damage. My help would be moving things around to make space for the work. Itís that limited.

As soon as they start doing it on their own, well, let me not think of that.

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You don't want to risk anyone photographing them, but you don't seem at all worried that those things could be damaged by the water flowing out of whatever part of the heating system is broken, or out of any new water leaks that may happen while the technicians are doing the repairs.
For example, copyrighted materials are on the walls. Removing and restoring them would take much time. In other words, it would cost me a lot, and this would be unnecessarily cost on any other day.

They hardly would get wet on the walls, but if they do, the loss is the time spent on the restoration. Reproducing the items is easy.

Itís not a problem if people only see them. If it was, they wouldnít be on the walls.

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Perhaps it would be more cost-effective to postpone the date of your operation. It's a question of resources of all kinds: physical, financial, in inspiration, time, health and nerves. I hope you find a solution that really solves the issue, and I would wish for you that you don't end up in anything that involves going to court.
I considered this. Unfortunately, November and December are the two most important months for my business. January and February are the worst two. Having the operation in November is already a disaster for me.

I donít want to wait more because the bones can grow over the implant, at least over one of them.

I had an accident a year ago. I couldnít do anything for three months. It was a disaster and a huge loss already. I wanted to have the follow-up operations a half year later. The doctors told me to wait. I was there for checkups for maybe twenty times.

Then it took me insane effort to arrange two surgeries on the same day, saving time and having only one anesthesia. They are done by different doctors, different departments (or how it is called).

Thatís why I wouldnít move the appointment.

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You also said that you intend to move out. Remember that any extra work you cause for the landlord this time round may well colour his/her feelings and dealings with you later, when you move out. That could influence the way the inspection is done, on the day of handing over the keys, and the amount of faults billed to you, then, when the flat inspected for damages. Wherever it is in your power, build peace.
I had not a single issue here for years. Now I had several in one month. I have no idea what happened.

What should I say about a new neighbor who rents out her flat on Airbnb, forgets to put the keys where the told she would put them, travels abroad, and turns off her phone when the guest who traveled eight hours is trying to reach her on the phone.

I found her at 10 pm on the street sitting on her luggage in the cold evening with an almost drained phone. Yes, I helped her. She could also see my flat. Itís not a problem if Iím also home.

But Iím not happy for having such neighbors. (It was only one story of more).

Anyway, I see your point.
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  #31  
Old 01.11.2017, 06:25
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

Am I the only one that is obsessed with what's in the apartment? I feel like Brad Pitt at the end of Seven, "what's in the box??? what's in the box!!!".

We have a few clues. It's not on the floors, it's on the walls. You have to be careful with it. She's ok if people see it, but people can't be alone with it, or allowed to take pictures.

There are some possible "copyright" issues. I'm thinking Art Forger.... any other guesses?

For those that haven't seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1giVzxyoclE

Last edited by BostonToZurich; 01.11.2017 at 06:29. Reason: grammar - youtube link
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Old 01.11.2017, 08:31
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

If you have legal insurance call them and ask them what you can do.

If the landlord really won't move the workers to another day, another option is to reschedule the surgery.

Not even getting into whether your reason les forces never ever letting anyone in when you are not there is valid or not i guess is beside the point. However you right 'you are not moving'. I have a feeling if you can not come to an agreement with your landlord and you do things like getting a security guard if change the locks, your landlord may well just give you notice to leave the apartment.

Sure you can sue to stay.... but basically you are setting yourself up for quite a lot of further conflict.
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Old 01.11.2017, 08:39
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

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There are some possible "copyright" issues. I'm thinking Art Forger.... any other guesses?
Forged EF blanket squares.
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Old 01.11.2017, 08:52
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

To the OP, there seems to be so many solutions here that you won't consider it does seem odd. Anyways, if what you have is so valuable it is paying someone to protect this in your absence?

First of all I would get a scope of work on what is being done and how long. It sounds like they will drain the system so will need to bleed your radiators, this you can do yourself.
Second meet with the heating guys and select one person to go in, get them to sign a non disclosure agreement.
Third stop being a drama queen and come up with a solution.
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Old 01.11.2017, 08:58
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

Iím inclined to wonder what would happen if the flats burned to the ground one day??
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Old 01.11.2017, 09:00
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

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Iím inclined to wonder what would happen if the flats burned to the ground one day??
Or gets flooded as well?
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Old 01.11.2017, 09:08
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

Getting a heating company in to do major work probably isn't all that easy at the moment.

The building season is coming to a close, so they're full up trying to finish those contracts in time for the cold weather/handover schedule.

The landlord may have just that one possible day to do the work.

If it's just a question of having to bleed your heating, and you're really stuck on the impossibility of that day, then perhaps if you have shutoffs on the feed and return lines to your apartment, then you could offer to close them, and bleed the system at your own convenience/cost later.

But if they have to make changes in the piping or control system to/in your apt then you're SOL.
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Old 01.11.2017, 09:09
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

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To the OP, there seems to be so many solutions here that you won't consider it does seem odd. Anyways, if what you have is so valuable it is paying someone to protect this in your absence?

First of all I would get a scope of work on what is being done and how long. It sounds like they will drain the system so will need to bleed your radiators, this you can do yourself.
Second meet with the heating guys and select one person to go in, get them to sign a non disclosure agreement.
Third stop being a drama queen and come up with a solution.
Fourth, install security cameras inside your flat, or even just webcams if you want a cheap option, so you can be certain that your invaluable and unique items are not photographed (or can take legal action if they are) -- but most of all, I refer you back to RTN's third point.
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Old 01.11.2017, 09:12
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

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...
Making it sure no photo is taken takes as much time as the workers are here.
I've had workmen at my house many times. I can't think they've ever taken photos. And if they wanted to, you being physcially present won't stop them. Heck, they may have hidden cameras about their person.

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Am I the only one that is obsessed with what's in the apartment? ...I'm thinking Art Forger.... any other guesses?
Nah - I think that's probably it. However, if it is all legally above board, then it should be a simple matter of having all workmen sign an NDA.
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Old 01.11.2017, 09:14
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Re: Right to refuse "break-in"

Seriously? Either you are trolling us or you have other problems altogether.
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